Dawes-man

1970s/80s BMW airhead motorcycles use a splitter for the carbs. The ones available now are black plastic but perhaps older versions were brass/more attractive...

I'd like to see a photo of your set up, if you can spare the time.

My Resilion problems remain just where they were whenI started this thread although I have discovered that the Thanet takes 27" wheels, not 26" as I thought for a while. Dumb me realised that after I'd bought some very nice 26" Constrictor/Solite wheels. All was not lost, however, as I swapped them for a very nice pair of 27" Constrictor Asps and some hubs.

I opened a new school back in April and have almost no time for bike stuff so it'll be a while before I sort out the Thanet. I'll post here when there's movement...

rhm

Sure, I'll try to remember to post some photos in a couple weeks. We're going away tomorrow and I don't think I'll get to it until later.

sundance1234

Hi
Did you ever sort your Risilions?

I have a thanet that I was searching for resilions for and I was very interested in your post.

I havent seen a braze resilion set up do you have more details? Have you sorted yours?

Dom

nlerner

Later can be a really long time.

Johno59

These Resilion cantilevers take a 'Razor' mountain bike pad insert perfectly and they are dirt cheap.

I boosted the traditional 'piston and spring' return with the green compression spring in the photo.

These were a second generation of Resilion brakes that were supposed to be easier to maintain. I replaced the return spring with the green one as the original one was too weak.
I had no luck with soldered ends nor using the BMX gyro brake loom arrangement.
As alluded to above, the twin cables morphing into the single within the 'bell housing' was the difficult component to duplicate. The difficulty is fabricating the union of the three cables within the bell housing - about like building a model ship in a bottle. The travel within the housing has to be suffice to work the full stroke of the cantilevers, so the fit has to be tight as there is only about 15mm of free space for the double headed join to move up and down inside the housing.
The original 70 year old cables are not twist weaved like a modern cable so when you attempt to cut them they splay apart alarmingly. Application of the slightest amount of heat for soldering causes them to disintegrate.
In the end it only costs a few bucks to retain the hardware and replace all the cables, outers, pads and connections with new - once you figure out the best approach.

Dawes-man

Yes, and no. I finally managed to get a set of braze-on cantilevers but only got around the fitting the back set. The front set was hard to fit and I left it halfway through. And so they remain while I've got on with the other million projects I've got going. It seemed as if the mounting holes in the forks were misaligned...

sundance1234

Hi
I'd really appreciate pictures of whatever (braze-on) Resilion bits you tracked down.
I'm hunting for aluminium Resilions (not neccessarily braze on) which seem rarer.
The one I have found, a rear, doesnt fit the angle of rear fork at all. But I could if I wanted fabricate a rear and and most of a front with the bits.
I have yet to find a single image of braze on resilions so I'd really appreciate any info you have gathered.
Braze on observations.....
The hole on the outside of your forks appears to line up with exactly where the cable stop would be on a pair of Ali Resilions ...... in theory it could be screwed directly into that hole making the front plate of the resilion clamp completely obselete.
If a pivot bolt holder was attached via the inside hole this would make the back plate obselete too ..... and there is no reason why teh two holes should align.
But this is all speculation.
As I have no idea how Resilion .... or the Gov'ner for that matter ..... did it.

Kind regards
Dom
UK
Bristol (about a mile away from where the old Thanet workshop/shop was.)

sundance1234

Also I wouldnt worry about the holes drilled in the front fork crown and rear fork bridge ....... most bikes had mud guards fitted or at least provision made for their fittment ...... your frame and mine both have mudguard stay mounts.

Dawes-man

Hello Dom,
I'm from Devon, not a million miles from Bristol...

'Braze-on' is a bit misleading as it suggests brazed on mounts for the Resilion cantilevers. On frames specifically designed to take them they bolt directly onto the forks and chainstays by means of single bolts though holes in them, as opposed to the normal clamp-on Resilions, which have nuts and bolts either side of the cantilever. Perhaps 'bolt-ons' as opposed to 'clamp-ons' would better describe the difference.

This is not my Thanet but it shows the centre bolt head of the bolt-on Resilion. Unfortunately I don't have a photo of the nut on the inner side of the fork.


This photo shows the holes in the forks and seat stays, and that they go all the way through.



I wasn't aware there ever were aluminium cantilevers. I thought they were all steel. However, in Steve Griffith's excellent Resilion article on the Classic Lightweights site he does mention them. They were introduced in 1948 - they were only partly aluminium. I guess they ARE rare.

I'll try and get some photos of the rear cantilevers on my Thanet in the next week or so and post them here.

Cheers!

Johno59

The front fork Resilion brakes have a much wider mount than the rear for the inescapable reason the front fork is twice as wide as the typical rear seat stay . For the truly round seat stay Resilion made a rounded insert that made it possible to mount your Resilion rear brakes onto a modern more round seat stay (as opposed to a traditional oval shaped seat stay) .
I have about a dozen sets of Resilion brakes - none are braze-on and they are all completely steel and a little bronze. I do vaguely recall an Al Resilion brake set off a Hetchin but there are some tremendous forces going on when cantilevers are actuated so no-way could they be completely Al (1950s Al for that matter) and good luck brazing Al to a steel frame.

Johno59

It's just occurred to me. One of the reasons Resilion brakes failed to survive , despite their superior stopping power (hence their prevalence on tandems) was you had to remove/move at least one cantilever to remove the wheel for a puncture - whatever. How would you do that if the cantilever was brazed on?

rhm

Well, you don't have to take the brake apart to take the wheel off, if you let all the air out of the tire. All the air, yes, I know, all the air, which can take a while. Resilions don't have any kind of a quick release, nor even a slow one.

Another reason they didn't survive, they were basically a bunch of spare parts you have to assemble around your bike. A modern brake caliper is something you can just take out of a box and install on your bike and you know it's good to go. A Resilion is a lot more complicated. Does stop well, though!

WillBradley1

I have a set of them on the front a GB frack bike, which also coaster brake hub on the back. I only use the resillions as an emergency which is almost never, and in fact on this particularly delicate frame it judders the fork abit (as they clamp on quite far down) so they are really just for that time it saves my life.

as a result, the brake pads are arnt pummelled into their slots and I can actually slide them forward and out reeeelatively easily to remove the front wheel. Can’t speak for heavily used ones though!

sundance1234

So I found both front and back Resilions in completely aluminium.

Very strong despite being very light. I have also located to bolt on front plates.
I cant post pictures unfortunately as I haven't yet posted 10 times .... but if anyone wants more info i will sort that out.

Dom

sundance1234

Actually your photo does show the back plate ... of the other caliper ... in the background.

Did you ever fit yours? Do they clamp on securely and work well?

Can you post a clearer picture of the back detail?

Dom

sundance1234

So it seems I need one more post before I can post photos ......... so this should be it.

sundance1234

So here you go.....

All aluminium resilions .... they have alloy levers too.

Still very strong

sundance1234

interesting post.Onyerleft .....did you meant 'there is no reason NOT to use vintage brakes that are not as effective as modern brakes? typo maybe? given that you started by saying 'Good braking is overrated'?


Glad youre enjoying the thread


It started as a classic bike (brake) rebuild .... and you normally have to stick with period correct parts .... so we couldnt really upgrade to modern brakes anyway ...


And in fact, luckily, we dont need to ....

Resilion were designed in the 1930s and have incredible stopping power ... (famously so in fact)

Mafac cantilevers were designed in the 1940s and are similarly effective but have the advantage of being very simple in design in comparison.....


So I dont think the age of brakes is a problem

Whatever brakes you use, if you are on a racing bike it strikes me the isssue is actually the minimal patches of rubber you actually have touching the ground.......


So you are correct in.. 'Braking power is over rated' (most accidents are not about the brakes) ..... for your reason (pilot error) and mine


Both our posts beg the question


WHAT ON EARTH DO WE NEED DISC BRAKES ON A RACING BIKE FOR?


Bikes never used to break .... do young people know that? you used to be able to buy a reynolds or columbus steel frame equiped with campag and forget about it for the rest of your life....


Now they break ......... frames, cranks .... even campag bits have got so complicated that they wear out.


Bahh humbug! ........................... naaaah..................... I'm only ....................................................serious.


The thanet of this thread and its resilion brakes will outlast all of us .....


and it will stop just fine


lol

rhm

Those aluminum Reslilions look pretty great! I have steel ones, and they look as old as they are.

As for stopping power... better brakes give better peace of mind. If I'm out to enjoy a ride, the less I have to worry about, the more I'll enjoy the ride. Do I need disc brakes? No, I survived many years without them, and resisted them for years. But now that I have them, I like them.

Salubrious

Descending 4000' over 10 miles of a rough mountain road with a fully loaded bike (unsupported but yes, racing, mostly through the middle of nowhere with all the water, food, sleep equipment, extra clothing for weather and tools that might be needed) such that you have to brake most of the distance; add hands numb from cold, hail and rain. British Columbia can have some really variable weather even in summer.... You know- what a bike is for!

sundance1234

There are an estimated billion bikes in the world
and It estimated that 4 or 5 are being made every second ...

How many of those will be descending 4000' over 10 miles of rough mountain road fully loaded ...... or something even vaguely similar .....

I'm not convinced that is really what most bikes are for......

The bicycle is probably part of the solution to the problems humanity faces ..... but not if they are made of carbon fiber and have a load of unnecessary tech attached.

I could stand by what I said with the addition of the word 'most' .......

But actually I'm not convinced that conventional brakes wouldn't work even in the conditions you're talking about .... in fact I think resilions probably would with modern brake blocks.
I shall order some and undertake some tests.

Sounds like you might enjoy:
Gironimo! Riding the very terrible 1914 Tour of italy by Tim Moore

Back in the days of riding over mountains in snow with cork brake blocks and no gear at all ...... (grrrrr real men!)

Or maybe not ......



And this should probably be a different thread, you want me to start one ?..... with a suitably controversial title of course

Sent ... as my first message...... with tongue very much in cheek.

sundance1234

And i I did say 'racing bike' not mountain bike ....or touring bike which is what yours is...

But the guys who really race can obviously use what ever they like

I just don't think us mere mortals need em ....

which doesn't mean I don't appreciate the design

Salubrious

At the 2016 Dairyland Dare one of the people I tried to ride with (he was far too fast) ran a 1930s Italian bike that employed leather pads. It was foggy and damp at the depart, which went down a fairly substantial hill- on which he was screaming in terror most of the way. Funny how they'd sorted out to use rubber for tires but not for brake pads. That bike was a 3-speed that you moved the chain yourself to the appropriate gear and then adjusted the chain tension with a ratchet on a lever that operated a jockey wheel just aft of the chainring. Charming ride, if a bit primitive...

People have been bikepacking since the early 1900s although they had a different word or phrase for it back then. I've no doubt the Resillion brakes would be plenty adequate to stop a loaded bike, but if you went a long distance (the Tour Divide, from which I used my example, is over 2700 miles) you'd want to bring along plenty of spare brake pads. I would love to have a ride that justified getting a set of Resillions; I love older machines that solved some of the vexing problems like how to stop when the chips are down. My oldest ride is a Raleigh Model Sports from 1935 but it was optioned with drum brakes, which are not up to that sort of task! Thanks for the tip - sounds like a good read.

Schlafen

This is a 'ball in a cup' reaction matey

sundance1234

No its not ....

Its the application of Occam's Razor to design principal.

Namely 'the simplest solution is usually the best'.

Its very easy to make cantilever cable brakes simple and light ...... and they are mindlessly simple to maintain. (mafac) .... and the consumable element is similarly simple and cheap. Rubber. (so a good solution environmentally)

Disc brakes are, conversely, complex, much more difficult to manufacture, more expensive and when they do finally need a pad change and more complex to maintain. And the consumable element is more expensive and harder to manufacture.

A good solution for motor bikes and cars ......

but ..... IMO ....... unnecessary for most bicycle applications ....

ball in a cup was always crap ...... .............the paper plane on the other hand .......... still entertains

Its clever to do a lot with a little ...... and given the state of the planet ...... more and more necessary ... no?