I need a new helmet. Why so expensive?
08-26-20, 10:45 AM
#51
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08-26-20, 10:59 AM
#52
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Tell me, I have to post this at least once a year. After I got tired of trying to keep up with little guys in motorcycle races; I became the safety director of the American Federation of Motorcyclists and in order to be competent at what I was going I went down to Bell and was shown around and we held a discussion about helmets.
Every time I publish this information you say the same thing. Do you have memory problems so that you can't remember anything for more than a couple of months? Trends in US Cyclist Deaths - research, statistics, data
I am also an electronics engineer that has worked extensively in R & D with medical instruments and laboratory instruments that are used for medical purposes. My guess is that you don't even know what peer review means so exactly why do you make these sorts of postings. You don't "peer review" statistics in case you were unaware of it. I have since compared helmet use by cyclists and pedestrian fatalities and everything is pretty comparable to what it was when this paper was written. That was BEFORE the Bontrager Q-cell. That may not make any difference either but at least they have addressed the real problems. While the Bontrager was the highest rated helmet in these tests It isn't clear to me what this test was measuring. Since angular momentum is not particularly dangerous and measuring it as a part of your test rating may not be of any use. https://www.singletracks.com/mtb-new...g-concussions/ However, they may believe that angular impacts are more common and more dangerous on MTB's.
Pardon me for being so rude, I didn't get a lot of sleep last night.
Every time I publish this information you say the same thing. Do you have memory problems so that you can't remember anything for more than a couple of months? Trends in US Cyclist Deaths - research, statistics, data
I am also an electronics engineer that has worked extensively in R & D with medical instruments and laboratory instruments that are used for medical purposes. My guess is that you don't even know what peer review means so exactly why do you make these sorts of postings. You don't "peer review" statistics in case you were unaware of it. I have since compared helmet use by cyclists and pedestrian fatalities and everything is pretty comparable to what it was when this paper was written. That was BEFORE the Bontrager Q-cell. That may not make any difference either but at least they have addressed the real problems. While the Bontrager was the highest rated helmet in these tests It isn't clear to me what this test was measuring. Since angular momentum is not particularly dangerous and measuring it as a part of your test rating may not be of any use. https://www.singletracks.com/mtb-new...g-concussions/ However, they may believe that angular impacts are more common and more dangerous on MTB's.
Pardon me for being so rude, I didn't get a lot of sleep last night.
Statistics are like bikinis, what they reveal is suggestive but what they conceal is vital.
Last edited by u235; 08-26-20 at 03:47 PM.
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08-26-20, 11:03 AM
#53
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I was in the market for a motorcycle helmet a whole bunch of years ago. I saw $50 helmets and $500 helmets, all with the Snell approved safety sticker.
I asked the salesman what was the difference between the $50 helmets and the $500 helmets if they both passed the same tests. He said to me, "Well, if you have a $50 head, get a $50 helmet."
I thought that was good advice!
I asked the salesman what was the difference between the $50 helmets and the $500 helmets if they both passed the same tests. He said to me, "Well, if you have a $50 head, get a $50 helmet."
I thought that was good advice!
08-26-20, 11:10 AM
#54
aka Phil Jungels
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08-26-20, 11:32 AM
#55
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08-26-20, 11:35 AM
#56
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I was in the market for a motorcycle helmet a whole bunch of years ago. I saw $50 helmets and $500 helmets, all with the Snell approved safety sticker.
I asked the salesman what was the difference between the $50 helmets and the $500 helmets if they both passed the same tests. He said to me, "Well, if you have a $50 head, get a $50 helmet."
I thought that was good advice!
I asked the salesman what was the difference between the $50 helmets and the $500 helmets if they both passed the same tests. He said to me, "Well, if you have a $50 head, get a $50 helmet."
I thought that was good advice!
I mean seriously, he Never addressed relative safety. He never even bothered to claim that the more expensive helmet was better ..... and you fell for it.
If I had been there, I would have scrawled "$500,000" on my helmet with a sharpie and sold you a whole lot more ..... something.
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08-26-20, 11:35 AM
#57
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That’s poor advice. That’s advice that I’d expect to get from a guy who stands to make more money selling a more expensive helmet. If you’re comparing a $50 helmet to a $500 helmet, both snell approved, the extra $450 is for comfort, extra features, less weight, and style.
I didn't intend my little anecdote to be a piece of serious advise in this serious topic. Just a little levity.
08-26-20, 11:47 AM
#58
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Not saying @RiceAWay is on target .... I mean, after a debilitating brain injury he asks us to trust his word .... and he shows poor reading comprehension (no one asked about "peer-reviewed" statistics ... you claimed you wrote a paper and people asked if it was a college thesis or a serious article respected by experts in the field .... I mean, the writing in that first post wasn't college-level .... ) but he does make a point here or there:
By the way …. The link RiceAWay providd offers basically no information. It doesn’t show anything except the number of cycling and pedestrian fatalities. A claim is made that helmet use rose during that time …. But that data nor the means by which it is acquired, is not presented.
He cites tow other papers which might contain that information … but the whole pack of data is from the year 2000 and before, and thus has no information about the newer, higher-priced,, supposedly higher-tech helmets we were discussing.
A lot of words, RiceAWay … “ … full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.”
To expand on my original posting. Although statistically helmets do not appear to change fatality rates that is NOT what I recommend helmets for. Since the most common bicycle accidents are the "fall off" a helmet WILL protect you from minor injuries. Whacking your head on the ground can really turn a pretty good ride into a terrible day even if there was little to no real injuries.
He cites tow other papers which might contain that information … but the whole pack of data is from the year 2000 and before, and thus has no information about the newer, higher-priced,, supposedly higher-tech helmets we were discussing.
A lot of words, RiceAWay … “ … full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.”
08-26-20, 12:04 PM
#59
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By the way …. The link RiceAWay providd offers basically no information. It doesn’t show anything except the number of cycling and pedestrian fatalities. A claim is made that helmet use rose during that time …. But that data nor the means by which it is acquired, is not presented.
08-26-20, 06:03 PM
#60
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I would take that into account buying a house or a car, but not a device meant to protect my health. Helmets have a life span, being exposed to sun, heat, UV, etc.
Let me take a wild guess: you're an accountant, right?
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08-26-20, 06:07 PM
#61
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08-26-20, 06:53 PM
#62
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Also, there is Zero proof that int e real world, helmets prevent fatalities when getting hit by cars. Even a motorcycle or auto-racing crash helmet isn't going to help much if it hits the pavement driven by a 3500-lb mass traveling at 50 mph.
It always cracks me up when helmets are listed as "Ways to avoid collisions."
I only wear a helmet off-road or when mandated on organized rides. I have been riding in traffic fro more than 50 years and haven't been hit since I stopped riding like a jerk and taking crazy chances. not that it can't happen ... but the best way to not have to worry about the quality of your headgear is to not get hit by a car.
Yeah, I might get hit anyway ... plenty of better and safer riders than I have been mowed down. We all leave here someday in some way anyway.
I think this is ready to be moved to the Repository of Helmet Threads. Nothing really more to say here.
08-26-20, 07:53 PM
#63
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Having ridden the Giro Synthe, Lazer Z1 and Abus GameChanger as well as a ton of cheap helmets over the years I can say the 3 helmets listed are generally lightweight. more comfortable, better ventilated or in the case of the Gamechanger more aerodynamic (which didn't matter to me one bit) plus they are generally put through more tests and more designing. They aren't built to just pass a test they are built to exceed the tests and might have even better tests to help with impacts and other issues.
You can certainly wear any helmet from a quality brand but your noggin will thank you for a nicer helmet.
You can certainly wear any helmet from a quality brand but your noggin will thank you for a nicer helmet.
08-26-20, 10:13 PM
#64
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Better air circulation.
Easier fit adjustment.
more fit adjustment.
4 typical benefits to a more expensive helmet.
08-27-20, 02:17 AM
#65
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Actually, according to some of the test data, a number of $60 helmets offer all the protection of the $400 helmets, and most brands have the same adjustment system for the whole range. I have a cheap Bell with tons of vents and the same dial-up fit that all Bell helmets have.
The only constant is the more expensive helmets cost more.
The more expensive helmets Might offer other benefits, or might not. But hey ... anyone who buys based on price and assumes more cost equals more value, go to it. Your are supporting the economy.
The only constant is the more expensive helmets cost more.
The more expensive helmets Might offer other benefits, or might not. But hey ... anyone who buys based on price and assumes more cost equals more value, go to it. Your are supporting the economy.
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08-27-20, 05:57 AM
#67
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Um. Meant to be tongue in cheek, because helmets aren't expensive after all (from the OP's complaint). I guess that the humor escaped you?
08-27-20, 06:20 AM
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Well, some differences? Weight (can vary by quite a bit), overall build quality when compared to the really cheap end of the spectrum, supposed aero benefits (which may or may not be actually real), and the style and looks of it, of course.
I'm currently mostly using a MET Trenta which weighs 215g, is well ventilated and is reportedly aero, and cost about $230. It's probably not any safer than a $50 helmet in a crash, but it is really lighter and I'm going to trust the aero claims. Ventilation is adequate even during the height of our summer (I'd sometimes get too hot under the old lid in the sun - it might have contributed that it was black, while I got this one in white).
Fit is going to depend on how well your head and the helmet shape play together, which is not related to price, and I don't think safety is meaningfully different so that one helmet would save you where the other wouldn't. I would rather have the lightest and most minimalistic helmet I can in a race.
I'm currently mostly using a MET Trenta which weighs 215g, is well ventilated and is reportedly aero, and cost about $230. It's probably not any safer than a $50 helmet in a crash, but it is really lighter and I'm going to trust the aero claims. Ventilation is adequate even during the height of our summer (I'd sometimes get too hot under the old lid in the sun - it might have contributed that it was black, while I got this one in white).
Fit is going to depend on how well your head and the helmet shape play together, which is not related to price, and I don't think safety is meaningfully different so that one helmet would save you where the other wouldn't. I would rather have the lightest and most minimalistic helmet I can in a race.
Last edited by Branko D; 08-27-20 at 06:36 AM.
08-27-20, 06:22 AM
#69
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It will be a bit interesting to see what the helmet market looks like when/if the new CEN/TC 158 testing standard.. basically developed by a team lead by the MIPS founder.
08-27-20, 09:35 PM
#70
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The term "regulatory capture" refers to the business strategy of developing intellectual property on a technology (patents, etc.) and then lobbying governments to mandate it.
My skepticism just went through the roof.
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08-28-20, 06:01 AM
#71
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08-28-20, 06:06 AM
#72
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KASK on MIPS
08-28-20, 06:16 AM
#73
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With respect, that's exactly the kind of over-thinking that manufacturers encourage, allowing them to hike their prices. It might, just might, be true for professional cyclists, but for the 99.9999% of the rest of us helmet aerodynamics and ventilation are secondary to safety certification and comfort.
08-28-20, 07:30 AM
#74
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Not really wanting to go into a shop and try on helmets, especially with a limited selection.....and not wanting to buy blind online......I ordered a new RocLoc fit system for my Giro helmet. All of $10. Of course, I ordered more stuff that I really could have waited for, but it was just so easy.
08-28-20, 07:57 AM
#75
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