sykerocker 

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Harley pulled themselves up on their own, no Japanese help whatsoever, thank you. The Porsche engineered engine was the V-4 Nova, which was supposed to go into production alongside the Evolution, but never did.

And the Japanese never quite figured out what it takes to really make a cruiser motorcycle - ride a Honda VTX1800, then go ride any big twin Harley. It's not unlike going from a mid-level Miata to a Rossin.

There's a reason for the "I'd rather push a Harley than ride a Honda" attitude, and if you're as attuned to V-twin motorcycles like some of us here are to road bikes, you understand immediately.

The Japanese understand engineering, they don't understand soul. Three things that were well received but never excited me is Japanese heavy metal, V-twin motorcycles and mass market bicycles. All are perfect copies when you look at the specs - but fall short when being enjoyed.

sykerocker 

The big problem with Japanese cars and motorcycles is spare parts. The Japanese mentality (on their own vehicles - they go gonzo on restoring foreign brands) is that you buy new. Period. The inspection laws are set up and you're virtually forced to buy a new car and scrap the old one after something like five to seven years. And they stop producing parts as quickly as possible as long as it doesn't hurt their reputation. A major part of my job is trying to help someone putting a twenty year old Honda back on the road. BMW's and Triumphs, not to mention Harley's, are a lot easier, all due to parts availability.

Be grateful we're restoring old bicycles. And be grateful to the supplier industry that's always existed for the frame builders - it makes our job soooooooo easy.

Lamplight

Ironically, my Japanese Bianchi is inferior to my Italian bike and my other Japanese bikes, both in build quality/finish and handling.

sykerocker 

Boy, this group sure knows bicycles, but doesn't have the slightest clue about motorcycles. The Harley Evo was a complete design from the base gasket up in 1984 (the Shovelhead bottom end was still decent) and five years later they redid the bottom end. AMF bought Harley in 1969, saved the company but almost destroyed it at the same time, then the officers bought the company from AMF and went independent in 1981.

I'm running a '98 Evo (Springer Softail) with 44k on the clock. It doesn't leak - and never has.

ronzorini

I beg to differ

Mooo

I don't really know how we got here, but my mom bought a new FXRP in 1985 with the (then brand new) Evolution engine. She put 55000 miles on it, including two trips to Sturgis, a couple to Texas, and one or two to Colorado, all from Ohio.

She let me ride it a couple times, once when it was a month old

Doesn't leak. They took it to Myrtle Beach about 5 yrs ago and had to have a starter solenoid replaced, I think, but that's about it.

Dad's is somewhat newer (1991? 1992?), and it also doesn't leak, but he's only put 45000 miles or so on it, so it's kind of too soon to say, innit?

She's talking about selling it, but I bet she waits till she's 75.

bonechilling

I've stayed out of the vintage motorcycle discussion so far, but I owned a Honda CB160 with 80,000 miles on it, which never seemed to quit. I traded it for three months rent, and now it's working every warm day on a farm in Iowa. Anyway, it was beautiful, and I would definitely prefer another vintage Honda or Yamaha motorcycle to just about anything European or American.

redmist

didn't porsche engineer the motor for the V-Rod as well?


well, if you're going to say that, you might as well include that harley forgot how to make a performance bike in the late 50's- at least japan tries to compete by making cruisers- when was the last time harley made a sporting bike? sporting does include the xlcr from the 70's.

i think there's something wrong with this attitude. it's saying that they'd rather not ride than ride. that's a sign that someone doesn't really like riding motorcycles, but just likes the idea of owning a brand. i find it amusing when i hear people who have never owned a motorcycle or even ridden one say with absolute certainty that they want a harley as their first bike. just how did they come up with this opinion if they've never even ridden before? are these the people "attuned" to V-twins? what would you say to the punter who has never ridden a bicycle, but says that they "want to own a colnago C-50- or not have one at all"? i think you'd laugh!

me? i'd rather ride than not.


back to bicycles- aren't some of those njs frame makers considered among the finest steel builders in the world? nagasawa, vivalo, etc?

OregonXC

Japanese may not have produced Harleys but Italians did in the 1960s.

https://wwwstd.enmu.edu/scottro/The%2...n%20Story.html

CardiacKid

No help from the Japanese, but they did convince the Reagan Administration to place a 50% tariff on all Japanese bikes over 700cc. Their lobbiests picked them up by their Gucci straps.
Back on topic, I used to have a Pinarello Veneto, which is in the lower end of Pinarello's line. I sold it after a got my Centurion Dave Scott. The Centurion rides better, is a little lighter, has equal build quality and a much more durable paint job. Both bikes probably sold for about the same price in 1989.
Oh, the Suntour GPX components are much better then the mid-line Campy stuff on the Piny.
On the other hand, the Centurion would not compare at all to a top of the line Piny, like a Montello, except in the paint and decals.

mrmw

(1). someone correct me if I mis-speak, but please--FORGET what you have read about the 'tooth capacity' of the the crank. You are not indexing the front crankset. Therefore your crank set will accept whatever rings make up to it given its BCD ('Bolt Circle Diameter'). A 53-39 double should fit quite nicely.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_bo-z.html

(2) In 1991, you have an excellent chance its a modern era freehub that accepts modern hyperglide cassettes. You can learn to tell the difference by visual inspection from this link:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html

(3) (you didn't ask--but you should have!
Q. 'After I change the front rings to 53/39 and the rear cassette to 13/28, will my rear derailleur handle the changed setup?'
A. Rear derailleurs have two metrics: takeup capacity and largest cog. Takeup capacity is the difference between the smallest and largest front ring PLUS the difference between the smallest and largest rear cog. In your case (53-39) + (28-13) = 29teeth. Rear derailleurs with longer cages (the distance between the pulleys) have greater takeup capacities. Its highly likely your 914 has a short cage derailleur with a largest cog size of 27t and a capacity of 26 t. So long as you don't cross-chain https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears.html you should be fine.

Good luck. Your 1991 Miyata 914 is IMHO the creme-de-la-creme of technology as it stands at the nexus of the best of the classic and the new. Classic lugged steel frame, modern hyperglide shifting ramps and rear freehub, eternally reliable downtube shifters rather than springy thingy brifters.

WNG

The Japanese definitely have soul. There are countless products, artwork, media, etc. to vouch for that. Don't confuse mass produced items with designs diluted by committee, as the Japanese standard. That is probably their biggest weakness as viewed OUTSIDE of Japan. But when you get a final product that survived committee scrutiny and retained the designer's vision and passion, it's a winner.

ricohman

Bikes eh?
I currently own a ZX-11 (Kawasaki Ninja 1100).
I would love to own a Ducati 1098!
But I need a BMW R1200 GS Adventure.

I do have to say the American mororcycles have never appealed to me and the 11 bikes I've owned have been Japanese. I like efficient performance and American bikes just never had it.

GCRyder

There is a good chance that IS the comparison lurking beneath the surface. Let's face it, males are most attracted to the products they think will be attractive to the females they find attractive.

I've never ridden a Rossin. I do have more than 40 years of motorcycling experience, and I've ridden many thousands of miles on both Harleys and Hondas. Telling me that going from a Miyata to a Rossin would be like going from a Honda to a Harley is a good way to convince me I never need to ride a Rossin.

aesmith

There was a guy a bit like that at work, except it was his Ducati. Every time it broke down, which was often, he'd swear he would get rid of it the moment it was fixed. Once it was back he was in love again, and forgave everything. A bit like having an irresistible but sulky and unreliable girlfriend.

Fissile

Dude, maybe you should get back on your medication.

I was a kid in the 1970's and I remember the HDs of that era very well -- they were total crap. Remember when they were called "Hardly Ableson"? HD also tried to enter the dirt bike market with some Italian make clunkers. A local badge-thug bought his kid an HD dirt bike because, he didn't buy "Jap crap". The idiot cop never did seem to notice the "Made in Italy" sticker, or maybe he was just illiterate, like most of the local badge-thugs were at the time. Try as his idiot offspring may, he could never hang with the rest of us on our Yamahas, Suzukis and Kawasakis. Idiot boy eventually took to riding his "American" dirt bike around a paved parking lot by himself.

After management bought HD from AMF, they admitted that they could not compete against the Japanese in terms of quality or engineering. They decided to go for "retro" appeal. That's what HD's are today, fashion statements for middle-aged posers and idiot cops. If you are a liar-for-hire...er, I mean lawyer, and you want to pretend that your pathetic existence actually has some meaning, you whip out the American Express Black Card, buy an HD, some crisp new leathers, and an American flag doo-rag. Instant bad-ass. Yeah, right.

On the other hand, when I want a real motorcycle, I look to Japan or Europe.

ricohman

I think you have insulted just about everyone with this post.
I don't ride a Harley but I am not closed minded about those who do.
I have many friends who ride Harleys and you have insulted pretty much all of them...............

lotek 

you know, one of the things I truely appreciate about classic and vintage forum is the
lack of insults, the decorum, and civility.
I also see that breaking down in this thread.
Yes Japan vs Italy (shimano vs campy) is a topic that can bring some passioned
arguments to it, add in muscle cars and HD and it gets downright volatile.
so, lets keep it civil and refrain from the personal attacks, insults etc.

marty

lotek 

This isn't a classic motorcycle forum as much as I like old Triumphs and HDs.
Please lets get back on topic.

JunkYardBike

Picchio, thanks for your posts and links. I was aware of the Japanese production Miyata and Bridgestone touring/randonneur bikes, but had no knowledge of these high-end builders.

Landgolier

The point is how many teeth the FD can shift. Smaller gaps are always going to shift easier, but 14t shouldn't be a stretch if you're willing to spend some time dialing in the FD. Modern compact doubles are usually a 16t gap, and they don't require special FD's.

sykerocker 

No, I'm one of the real ones. Been riding for over 30 years, flying colors for close to 20. The "Deranged Few M/C" in the signature line isn't a joke. To me, it's life.

Fissile

If you're not a poser, than you agree with me that the majority of people who have purchased HD's in the past 15 years are. From my casual observation, the majority of HD owners in North Jersey are middled aged, white collar types, trying to act tough. They really look tough in their shiny new leathers, store bought doo-rags and ass-less chaps. You'd never guess that 9 out of 10 have never been in a fist fight in their entire lives.

ricohman

New laws have been passed where I live. Anyone wearing "colors" is not allowed in any public meeting place. Fair grounds, restuarants, shopping malls ect.
About time.

RobbieTunes

I've have a 1981 Harley and owned 2 Kawasaki's and a Triumph. The Harley could never do what the Kawa's could, and the reverse. The Triumph didn't do anything well. I appreciated the differences, but few do.

I've had a Datsun 240z and a 68 Camaro. Absolutely different cars. The Z outperformed the Camaro in nearly every category, but give me the Camaro any day, just a preference now that I'm old. Most enthusiasts of each willfully ignore the other.

I've lived in Japan and visited Italy. Absolutely different people and culture. In Italy, the fun got in the way of efficiency. In Japan, the efficiency got in the way of fun. I appreciate and celebrated the differences.

I have a Centurion Ironman and a Centurion Cinelli Equipe. I'd race the Ironman any time against Kestrels (I'd lose) and ride a half-century on the Equipe with Madones (and be less comfortable and work a little harder).

At the end of the day, however, the Kestrel rider would check out my Ironman, and the Madone rider would inspect my Cinelli. I'd look at theirs, and we'd grin, and plan the next ride.

There's lots of differences in bikes, and reasons for them, but bike riders are generally people who like bikes. I can't really say that about motorcycles, cars, or countries.

And I still hate Triumphs.