MooneyBloke

I'll add, even though I'm on sew-ups, my impression is that the Mavic reflexes are holding up better than any of the Super Champions I started out on or the early non-machined Mavics: GL330, GEL280, and even GP4.

RiddleOfSteel

The Brevet sticker really does look fit for the '70s. The 32H versions are in stock on their website and the 36H's are sold out, a reversal of sorts since the always-popular 32H's are constantly sold out.

This guy on Pedal Room has 700x35 tires on his 1984 Trek 520. Vertical clearance is not enough to run 35s with fenders it looks like, but there's always other bikes that can be used for rain duty. My 720 is a touring bike but I don't load it up or be-fender it--only fast, comfortable riding. The 620 gets fenders, haha.

repechage

the "no flags" downtube was done earlier by special order request or by decision of the supervising worker. I have owned three that way from 1975 and 1976.
I am aware of a others, earliest from late 1974.
The later 1978 or so "no flags" was because the guy could not manage the varnish fix transfers, they were running low and cut away damaged portions.
I consider these 1977-78 frames part of the "dark days", Masi USA was struggling. On some, the geometry was just darn goofy.
These were the bikes of the period that ended up in the Breaking Away movie, they used two Masi bikes, and they had different fork crowns, Fischer appearing and Cinelli MC, and while orange-red, the downtube graphics were white fill and the chainstays, Blue! Scraping the bottom of the drawer.

Sorry to read that the frame you purchased was goofed. I dislike when that happens.

steine13

>> If you are going for indexed shifting, you will need to fit 130 mm wide hubs to accommodate the clicky-compatible hubs, hence needing to cold-set the frame.

Two ways around that, I think™ -- meaning, do some research if this interests you, to make sure, but this is solid information.

(i) 126 mm hubs will take a 7sp freewheel -- or put another way, those freewheels are available to replace the old 6 speeds. And they will be SIS/STI compatible, meaning they shift well, and you can get at least Microshift shifters for them -- bar-ends or brifters..

(ii) 126 mm freehubs exist -- SIS 6 speed compatible for example, and I believe they will fit 7speed cassettes.

Heck don't believe me, go to The Source:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html
"Upgrading From 6-/7-speed (126 mm) to 8-/9-speed (130 or 135 mm)"

So if 7 speed is the limit of your greed, 126 mm is no problem.

And you can fit 8 cogs of a 9-speed cassette -- the famed "8 of 9 on 7" -- and use 9-speed STI shifters, just with an empty click and still stick with 126.
Sheldon again: "8 Of 9 On 7 -- or 9 of 10 on 7" -- so even 10-speed shifters are an option.

I wouldn't worry about spreading to 130 mm, though. People do it all the time, and bikes for a time were spaced 128 so they could run either -- no modification needed.

cheers -mathias

masi61

Modern clincher rim extrusions build up easier for the wheel builder. They take tension easily & are less likely to have “hop” or lateral truing leading to uneven spoke tension. You can’t always say that about vintage.

Also modern clincher rims gave the machined sidewalls to improve braking. Pretty important safety issue here.

Wider internal volume & tubeless ready internal rim design are even more reason to go modern. No one mentioned Velocity rims yet, so I will. The A23 is a tubeless ready rim with a shallow “V” profile that is aesthetically pleasing. It can be ordered in a variety of standard finishes as well as custom anodized finishes or bare polished aluminum for an up charge.
The Velocity Quill is even wider than the A23 but would still fit your Masi. The semi-circular extrusion is really classy & these rims would give you a performance advantage over vintage rims all day long. Tubeless shock absorption, grip & flat prevention are all superior compared to tubed. If you are against tubeless due to the hassle (or some other reason), running a Quill or Pacenti Brevet rim with tubeless rim tape, latex inner tube & a really nice “open tubular” type tire could lead to a superior ride quality that is light & looks great too.

gugie 

I'm wondering if some are under the impression that new model rims are better than older ones because most are using wider tires, which protect the rim better?

rgvg

I have an 83 520, tb14s on them but I've only got 30mms on there right now. I think there should be space for 35s but I haven't tried.

El Chaba

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I think that is a factor.

delicious

I've put tons of miles on MA-2s, and they've never given me any problems. I weigh ~155 though.

Classtime 

Not needed but if I was going brifter and choosing between the two rims, I’d go with the wider TB14 and use the MA2 on a different build. Folks are going wider and wider on tires and a brifter set up will likely end up on a frame with more clearance and fat tires. (400+ gram vintage rims are plenty strong but these days I try not to abuse my GL330s.)

JohnDThompson 

Many modern rim extrusions are heavier than vintage rim extrusions, to provide sufficient strength with low spoke count wheels that are currently popular.

repechage

I wonder if the CE specifications push this also

130 mm wide rear hubs just are designed to have drive side spokes under pretty high tension, they are "high dish" many older rims just cannot tolerate that with decent durability.

Caliwild

I guess it depends on the frameset. I got the TB14 polished rims for my Tommasini and it works well IMO...

rccardr 

The above rims look more like Archetypes to me. The TB14’s I have are more box-shaped and don’t have the decals on them.

Caliwild

Whoops! Meant to post the TB14s... Ran out of coffee

Caliwild

Here are the TB14s...

Steel Charlie

My Caylor rolls on 32h MA40's that I built for it 35+ years ago. No problems so far.

J_Climacus 

I should note that the reason I think the TB14s look less good for my use case is that they are already built with Miche hubs, and the hubs have a black portion running down the middle. This is the specific wheelset: https://velomine.com/products/h-plus...ampagnolo-9-12
That hub to me does look more modern. It wouldn't look totally out of place on my bike with the 2nd-gen record 9 group on it, but the group I've assembled is all silver without any carbon. I tend to think polished silver hubs will fit the build better. But if there were real structural integrity concerns with dishing an MA2 for a 130mm 9 speed hub, I would choose the set I have with TB14s and deal with how the hub looks. They still look sharp, just not quite as perfect to my eye.

Kontact 

Anecdotally, a few years ago I built a set of 20/24 wheels on Kinlin 385 gram rims and they held up perfectly under my 155 pounds. I can't imagine putting that few spokes in a Mavic MA2.

Build the wheel properly for the design of the rim and you'll be fine, no matter old or new.

I do think it is possible that the old hard anodized rims without machined brake tracks didn't wear out from brake rub as quickly.

dddd

One would expect that there has been some development in the area of making more-accurate and thinner-walled extrusions, with newer rims likely benefiting from that in terms of cost-to-produce and strength-to-weight.

Most modern rims are taller, which opens up the closed shape of the internal volume and better resists flat-spotting.
This is important for another reason that is perhaps not so intuitive; that such a shape better resists torsional deflection along the length of the extrusion.
Torsional resistance is a big part of how a rim resists lateral loading, since one can readily see how a badly-bent rim typically shows the center of the affected area to lean toward the side that it had been bent toward. Resisting that lean by means of torsional resistance can prevent a rim from deflecting and bending laterally.

The materials aspect also plays huge, with alloys like Mavic's Maxtal better resisting plastic deformation i.e. bending/yielding. So an Open Pro rim can be more bend-resistant than a similar-looking but heavier Open Sport, Open Elite or MA3 rim made from lesser alloy.

steelbikeguy

The anodizing doesn't really affect the wear of the sidewalls, since the anodizing quickly wears off.
The question of whether a machined or unmachined rim will wear out faster is interesting, though...

My only measurable experience with this was when I replaced a very worn unmachined Sun CR-18 rim with a CR-18 with machined sidewalls.
The worn rim had been on my commute bike for 19 years and seen 40k to 50k miles of use.
Here's a shot of the old rim next to the shiny new rim!



I was replacing the rim because of the sidewall wear. It had become obviously concave, and I really wasn't sure how much life was left. ...besides, I had a spare in the closet, and I might as well use it. Here's a shot of the sidewall wear...



I made a tool to permit measuring sidewall thickness, and it indicated that the old rim was about 1.1mm thick just below the bead. The new rim, when measured in the same way, was about 1mm thick just below the bead. That seemed odd, but cutting the old rim (once it was removed) showed that the measurement was correct.


In this case, an unmachined CR-18 rim with at least 40,000 miles on it had a thicker sidewall than a brand new CR-18 with a machined sidewall!
That wasn't what I had expected to find!
At least the new rim looked better.

Steve in Peoria

dddd

Lol, you'll never get rich selling consumable products that never wear out!

Are the newer version a lot lighter than the old, un-machined version?

Kontact 

I don't know why you say the anodizing quickly wears off. It seems to very slowly wear off, and even very worn hard anodized rims retain dark anodizing between the high spots.

dddd

Very annoying how long that it can take anodizing to wear off once it reaches a certain stage of unevenness, with uneven braking the result.
The look doesn't bother me too much, but the brakes pulsing, that's annoying.

Those kind of "hard-ano" rim treatments are quite hard and thick, tend not to wear off any too fast unless in wet riding.

I've taken road bikes with problematically-uneven braking surfaces on solo mtb rides in wet conditions, solely for the purpose of "machining" the rims back into some state of uniformity.
Braking improved dramatically on just one ride!

steelbikeguy

I used to have some Nisi dark anodized tubular rims with that sort of wear pattern, but the spokes pulled through the rear rim when it cracked. Not sure how many miles they had... but they showed considerably more wear than your rims.

My current experience is with MA-40's, where no trace of anodization remains. These rims must have 20 or 30 thousand miles on them when the photo was taken over 10 years ago?? Not a lot, by my standards. The anodization probably didn't last more than 5 or 10 thousand miles, but the bike gets ridden in the rain a lot too.
This is the best photo that I've got handy, and it shows the bare aluminum sidewalls on the MA-40's.



Steve in Peoria