FeastyOwl

Hi everyone,

I recently bought a vintage 9 speed chorus groupset on ebay and have started building a 90's steel frame bike with all campy parts.
While overhauling, cleaning and relubing the shifter interiors i noticed that the left hand shifter shifts 12 times instead of 9.
Now, normally the left hand shifter is used for the front derailleur so only has to shift once so I reckon this won't be a problem but I was wondering if this is something that is particular to my shifter or par for the course with this set.

I've heard of swapping out ratchet disks within shifters to convert them from 9 speed to 10, 11 or 12 so that might also be the case with this shifter though I'm not entirely sure.

I'd love to post pictures but since this is my first post here, I can't.


Thanks in advance!

Mackers

It's normal, don't worry about it.

cat0020

More clicks in the left shifter is better for the trim function of front derailleur to prevent the front derailleur cage chain rub while shifting across the rear cassette range.

mramra

I bet it's not normal for a 9-speed shifter. It could be a modification, but I can't be sure without more information. If you're confident it's been modified, it should be fine as long as you have compatible components. If you want to revert it back or need more help, why don't you consult a local bike shop or mechanic with Campagnolo experience?)

Cheers
Meira

Mackers

You would lose that bet.

FeastyOwl

Bit of an update:

I managed to put the bike together after finding out the wheelset had an 8s cassette and a conversion to 9 was impossible. I got an 8s set of record brifters that have the indexing spaced right.
Now I have some issues with the front derailleur:
It takes about 4 to 5 clicks to shift from small to big (39-52) and it often pushes the chain right off of the big cog. If I set the limit screw to where it just about doesn't rub against the chain on small-big, I can only click three times and the mechanism won't shift.
I think the derailleur cage is bent as I've tried a couple of positions so far, simply aligning it with the cage doesn't work.

Also, the chain skips on the cassette under load. I've checked the indexing and that should be fine, There is some play on both of the knuckles of the rear derailleur and I'm not entirely sure if the hanger is straight either.
At this point I'm ready to just make an appointment at the campy pro shop and let them look at it.

Anyone have any ideas? I can post pictures if necessary.

Here is the setup:
Campagnolo Zonda 8s wheelset with 8s cassette on exa drive body
Chorus 8s rear derailleur
Chorus 9/10s front derailleur
specialites t.a. 9s/10s cogs on 175mm chorus crankset
9s record chain
8s record brifters

cat0020

If you have a worn chain, worn cassette or worn chainring.. the shifting performance is going to suffer.
Mixing new drivetrain component with worn ones is certainly going to affect the compatibility & performance.

FeastyOwl

The chain and chainrings are brand new. I've ordered a new Miche Primato cassette as I suspect that might be causing the slippage.
Let's hope that fixes it!

cat0020

If you have 9 spd chain that is too narrow for the Miche 8 spd cassette, or cog teeth; that could cause the slippage.

FeastyOwl

I've read multiple accounts of people using 9 speed campagnolo chains on 8 speed cassettes without problems, many even preferred the 9s chain as it has a better time shifting and 8s chains are hard to find nowadays.
Am I wrong in assuming the two are compatible?

cat0020

Difficult to tell without looking at how the chain is slipping.
Miche 8 spd cassette may not have the same profile as genuine Campy cassette, cause new 9 spd chain to slip.
It's always trial & error with Campy older stuff most of the time.
Is the rear shifter in decent shape? cable & housing are well lubed?

FeastyOwl

Currently, the 9s chain is slipping on campy 8s cassette. The derailleurs and shifters are in great shape and everything is brand new and well lubed. I'm thinking of trying out an 8s chain but there are no campagnolo 8 speed chains available.

FeastyOwl

By brand new I mean NOS or used but overhauled, regreased and rebuilt. The shifting is working perfectly on both the front and back at the moment.

mramra

Hi and sorry, but why?

Mackers

..

Dave Mayer

I run 8-speed Ergopower for much of the year. The shifting is perfect, as in as good as any mechanical shifting gets in 2023. So no over-shifting, undershafting, ghost shifting, hesitation, clattering, noise etc. Again, precise and consistent.

I don't understand what you mean by the 9s chain is slipping. Regardless, I use 8-speed chains on my 8-speed Ergopower, as the 9-speed chains will be too narrow to engage correctly on the 8-speed cogs. Favorite chain: Shimano IG-70, or any of the HG chains. Real ones: not the fakes/clones you can buy online. SRAM, Taya OCTO or KMC chains also work well. Chains: buy cheap and replace often.

FeastyOwl

I ordered a kmc 8s chain, i hope that will fix the issue

FeastyOwl

I didn't have meshing issues with the 9s chain on the casette, however I just replaced the 9s chain for an 8s kmc one and it did have issues meshing with the 9s jockey wheels i used to replace the old ones. Putting the old wheels on fixed that but sadly the chain still "slips" on certain sprockets. I suspect that cassette wear is the culprit.
I hope replacing it will fix the problem.

FeastyOwl

I think I've figured out what has been causing the issue. As I was replacing the cassette I quickly realised i dont have the correct tool but I decided to check the hub body itself by removing the axle from the wheel and found that one of the three pawls and its accompanying spring is missing. I've ordered replacement pawls and springs to make sure I have a matching set and the correct tool to replace the cassette.

mramra

Uhm, I missed that

georges1

You can buy a sachs/ sram 8 speed chain , it will normally work with the campagnolo 8speed cassette.

FeastyOwl

FINAL UPDATE:
After identifying the missing pawl in the rear wheel hub I decided to completely overhaul the hub and put new pawls, a brand new cassette and a new 8s kmc chain on. Getting the pawls to go back in was a struggle but I'm happy to say all the problems are fixed and I am thoroughly enjoying the ride!
Thank you all for your advice

hortan

Wish Shimano triple front shifters had so many positions.

Road Fan

He's talking about the left-hand Ergo, which controls the 2 or 3 gears of the front of the bike. So that front shifter is actually for 2 or 3 chainrings and can be adjusted as finely as a friction shifter. I have a Veloce like that, and it is great. It's partner, also an Ergopower, has at least 7 clicks and perhaps a few extra for trimming. But it is designed for the right hand. Campy does not offer us a wy to change hands.

bikingshearer 

The right-hand shifter shifts the rear derailleur and has to coordinate with the number of cogs in the back - one click of shifting equals one gear up or down (as the case may be). This is true of Campy, Shimano, SRAM. There are compatibility issues between, say, Campy 9-speed and 10-speed right hand shifters because 10-sp rear cogs are thinner and closer together, so the shifter has be built to handle that. A 9sp right-hand shifter will not play nicely with a 10-sp rear derailleur and cog set. (There are after-market devices that work around this problem.) ALso, a Campy 10sp shifter will not play nocely with a Shimano 10sp rear deraiileur or cogset because Campy and Shimano make their cogs at slightly different thicknesses and space slightly different distances away from each other. This has been true for 30 years or so, and they show no signs of deciding on a single standard.

The left-hand shifter shifts the front derailleur. It does not care how many cogs are in the back. Shimano left-hand shifters are indexed: one click equals one gear up or down. I think SRAM is the same, but I've never dealt with them so I am not positive. Campy is different. It's left shifters have a bunch of clicks - I've never bothered counting them and will take somebody's word for it that there are 12. One click does not equal on chainwheel's worth of shifting - it will take some indeterminate number of clicks. You can also trim it one or two clicks' worth to bring the FD into better alignment for a given front-rear cog combination, something you cannot do with Shimano (and one major reason why I prefer Campy drivetrains, but others disagree). It is more akin to friction shifting, or maybe even more akin to Suntour power ratchets (downtube and bar end shifters intended to use with friction shifting systems). The Suntours probably have more "clicks" that a Campy Ergo left hand shifter, but it has never occurred to me to check. You could what is nominally a 9sp Campy left shifter on any Campy FD in any Campy drivetrain from at least 8 through 10 speeds and probably down to 7 and up to 11. You could even use it woth Shimano FDs with no problem at all. (I doubt but am not positive that a Shimano left shifter would not work with a Campy FD and Campy crankset because my guess is, as with RDs and cogsets, Shimano and Campy make their chainwheel an different thickness and have them a slightly different distance away from each other. (I could be wrong about this - is so, someone will be along shortly to correct me.) With the Campy system, you, not the lever, determines how far the FD moves, whereas with the Shimano system, you click once and the FD goes where it goes and you have nothing more to say about it. You can trim a Campy left Ergo shifter in a way that is simply not possible with Shimano. The only Campy issue is whether it will handle a triple up front - and that answer to that is almost always "yes," at least with 9- and 10-speed.

Sorry for the wordy explanation, and sorry if I told you a bunch of stuff yo already knew. If so, think of it as your question eliciting a response that might assist someone newer to all this.