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Tubular gluing process interrupted: how to proceed?

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Tubular gluing process interrupted: how to proceed?

Old 03-04-23, 05:37 AM
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Jantaras
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Tubular gluing process interrupted: how to proceed?

Hello,

This is a thought experiment, not a real problem ATM. I could not find answers by Googling.
So, after using tubular tape for some time, I am ready for gluing with tubular glue. I already have a jar of Vittoria Mastik One.
The gluing process looks like a straightforward one, but could be a little messy.
I think I'll try the one suggested by Zipp (from Youtube):
Day1. one layer of glue on rim and tire
Day2. one layer on rim
Day3. one layer on rim and install tire after about 5 mins.

Now, what happens if after Day2 I get sick, go to hospital or something and can't proceed to Day3 procedure? Lets say after Day2 I get delayed for a week, can I just proceed with Day 3 procedure, a layer on rim and install tire or it is better to start all form Day1 procedure?

I can't undestand how the glue works. Will the new layer on Day3 activate the already completelly dried layers on tire and rim and glue them together? If it is right, then maybe even a delay of 1 week would not be significant?
Or the new layer on Day3 activate the somewhat, but not completelly dried (24-48h) layers on tire and rim? If this is the case, then a delay of 1 week would be significant.

Also, after installing the tire, would pumping it to pressure be enough to glue it completelly? Or should it be ridden in a day or so to complete the gluing process? Basically, the question is, can I glue them in winter?

Thanks for your insights!
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Old 03-04-23, 05:50 AM
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Delaying step 3 by a week is fine. It's contact cement, more or less. I used a spare tire where the glue on it was 5 years old. Got me home fine.

So yes, gluing up properly in the winter and riding in the spring is fine. Glue can last for years. Every spring, I check to see if the glue is any good. But most times the tire wears out before the glue.
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Old 03-04-23, 05:59 AM
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The procedural steps listed are the are the same instructions as Vittoria..

applying another layer does activate the previous application.. following step 3 will activate the glue.

Keep in mind that many riders apply glue to the spare and fold it so the glue only touches glued surfaces. When mounting the spare, it will glue itself to the rim when pumping and riding it afterward.

It is important to make sure the edges of the rim and the base tape have glue. It really doesn't take much glue to bond the tire to the rim.

Try removing a tire off a rim neither of which have glue applied. Rolling a tire off of a rim is not easy. when riding pressures are applied. Possible ? Sure. High risk? More risk in having the tire rotate on the rim causing valve stem failure. The tire will stretch with use, so not a good idea long term. Works to get you home if it is not too far (glue on rim but not on tire).

Flame me with data and firsthand failures. Above comments do not apply to racing like activities.

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Old 03-04-23, 07:18 AM
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Some tires want more than one layer of glue but you're fine. (I've watched tapers change tires and I'd sooner go tubeless. You are gonna luv glue.)
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Old 03-04-23, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by SJX426
Try removing a tire off a rim neither of which has glue applied. Rolling a tire off of a rim is not easy. when riding pressures are applied. Possible ? Sure. High risk? More risk in having the tire rotate on the rim causing valve stem failure. The tire will stretch with use, so not a good idea long term. Works to get you home if it is not too far (glue on rim but not on tire).

Flame me with data and firsthand failures. Above comments do not apply to racing like activities.

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Not sure that non-racers uniformly ride their tubular-wheel-equipped bikes more delicately than racers.

That said, back when all racers, amateurs and professionals alike, rode tubular tires, promoters of local races in the U.S. routinely asked volunteers to check tires on the start line for reliable glue jobs. At least two or three tires out of a field of twenty or so bikes would easily roll off the rim, clearly having been glued on that morning because the guy used the same wheels for his racing and training tires.

Why didn't they glue on the racing tires the night before? Dunno. Heavy date, maybe?
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Old 03-04-23, 09:21 AM
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It's not rocket science. If it were so terribly sensitive to process, it wouldn't work and NO ONE would use them.

I always used glue. I used tape once but disliked it and returned to using glue. IMO, the glue was easier and less messy than the tape.


Have you had trouble with tires coming off the rims? Why so worried?
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Old 03-04-23, 09:33 AM
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shrug?

are people really taking multiple days to mount a tubular tire? One coat on the rim, one on the tire, about an hour for them both to dry, a wet coat on both and mount. Few hours to dry and ride. Never had a failure.
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Old 03-04-23, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by AngryScientist
shrug?

are people really taking multiple days to mount a tubular tire? One coat on the rim, one on the tire, about an hour for them both to dry, a wet coat on both and mount. Few hours to dry and ride. Never had a failure.
yes
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Old 03-04-23, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by AngryScientist
shrug?

are people really taking multiple days to mount a tubular tire?
Only for a new rim, or maybe if I wire-brushed ALL the old glue off a used rim. Otherwise a little more glue on the rim and a couple coats on a new tire... less than an hour.
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Old 03-04-23, 11:46 AM
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Until bikeforums I never heard of applying glue to the tire. I mount the tire, inflate a little. Push the tire off the rim exposing 10" or so of rim. Run my glue very sparingly down the center and put the tire back on. Work my way around the wheel and inflate. Spin the wheel and adjust as necessary.

I've used 3M Fastak adhesive forever but its not the same as back in the day. Now I use Gorilla Glue construction adhesive. Seems to work just fine. A little slower drying than Fastak. Overnight drying is probably best though I have ridden after just an hour of dry time.
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Old 03-04-23, 12:15 PM
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For future reference, I was taught that you should never use combinations of glues from different manufacturers. More specifically, if you're planning to glue a tire onto a rim bed that's covered with residue from a previous application of one formulation of glue, either use the same glue again or clean the rim until none the original glue remains. Evidently some glues can work as solvents for other glues.
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Old 03-04-23, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by big chainring
Until bikeforums I never heard of applying glue to the tire. I mount the tire, inflate a little. Push the tire off the rim exposing 10" or so of rim. Run my glue very sparingly down the center and put the tire back on. Work my way around the wheel and inflate. Spin the wheel and adjust as necessary.

I've used 3M Fastak adhesive forever but its not the same as back in the day. Now I use Gorilla Glue construction adhesive. Seems to work just fine. A little slower drying than Fastak. Overnight drying is probably best though I have ridden after just an hour of dry time.
I handle mine similar to you, although my method involves applying glue to about halfway down the rim, equidistant on each side from the valve hole. No glue next to the valve! Vittoria Mastik works fine for me. Putting on wet enables me to inflate to 60psi and shift the tire around to get it properly centered. Dry/cure overnight. The tires stay on without any issues. I cannot imagine using the "contact cement" method. Does not seem feasible for centering the tire. My tires remain firmly affixed to the point that I carry a couple plastic levers with me to change tires.
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Old 03-04-23, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott
Only for a new rim, or maybe if I wire-brushed ALL the old glue off a used rim. Otherwise a little more glue on the rim and a couple coats on a new tire... less than an hour.
Yep... But God save Youtube. I have learned so much from perusing its vids. They far out weigh their faults.

I have really never know the true and proper way to mount tubulars. I just did it. I do remember having glue all over the place though. On the rim, on the spokes, on my hands, on my cloths, on the floor... Hey... It was a learning process.

I do vaguely remember the old Italian riders in Italy having a perfectly good wheel set pumped up and hanging on the wall. At questioning they said they were drying. So as not to look like the idiot I was I just nodded my head... Ha

Originally Posted by Jantaras
...Basically, the question is, can I glue them in winter?
Yes... But ya gotta let them dry so not too thick on the glue, light pressure in the tube, and keep um warm for awhile...
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Old 03-04-23, 01:25 PM
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Any method of gluing that achieves a good bond is okay. People make WAY too big a deal of it. Watch the link to the video of a Rabobank mechanic gluing a tubular. Note that there is no glue on the tire. He avoids that step by applying the tire to the rim with the glue very wet- immediately after application. The key is to apply the right amount of glue. What you can’t see in the video is that the pro mechs almost invariably thin the glue. Another key step is to get a coat from edge to edge on the rim bed. The mechanic achieves this after glue application with a toothbrush. Note also how he mounts the tire with the tire partially inflated to hold its shape. To mount a partially inflated tire takes practice, but it allows for a lot less fiddle straightening the tire. You can see he is an artis as he does NOTHING to straighten the tire after mounting. He mounts the tire at the valve and pushes it downward on a pad (many mechs use a square of cardboard) to prevent dirt contamination of the glued rim. The other key step is to fully inflate the tire after mounting. If you haven’t used too much glue there will be no squeeze out upon inflation.
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Old 03-04-23, 01:37 PM
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Interrupted, you say? Sorry, you'll have to completely unlace the wheel and rebuild it.

Having rolled a front tire sprinting across an intersection once, I would generally add another thin layer, then wait not so long, and then mount the tire. And then wait a day or so for it all to set. But if the glue surface is clean and undisturbed, you may get good adhesion without the extra steps. Just check it before riding.
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Old 03-04-23, 09:03 PM
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I have used this withh good results . Buttuer it up and go .

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Old 03-04-23, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by markwesti

I have used this withh good results . Buttuer it up and go .
That part number looks close to the one I recall for FastTak. FastTak got a bad rap for causing the basetape to separate from the tire, but many of us used it for years racing with never an issue. Unfortunately 3M discontinued the formulation for some reason. It too was defined as an automotive weatherstripping adhesive.

Back on the OP’s topic, if I recall Conti is recommending 3 applications to rim and base tape with a final wet application to both and mounting.
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Old 03-04-23, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott
Only for a new rim, or maybe if I wire-brushed ALL the old glue off a used rim. Otherwise a little more glue on the rim and a couple coats on a new tire... less than an hour.
+1 I only remove glue if it's too uneven to salvage or I don't trust its stick to the aluminum. Most of my rims never got cleaned in my 25 years of sewups starting the early '70s. I trust old bonds to the rim more than new ones. Yes, I look to see how much came off the rim when I pulled that last tire and how hard it was to pull off but I usually just "patch" any new bare spots with a couple of coats of glue, wait a while, then glue overall and mount as usual.
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Old 03-05-23, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by RCMoeur
Interrupted, you say? Sorry, you'll have to completely unlace the wheel and rebuild it.

Having rolled a front tire sprinting across an intersection once, I would generally add another thin layer, then wait not so long, and then mount the tire. And then wait a day or so for it all to set. But if the glue surface is clean and undisturbed, you may get good adhesion without the extra steps. Just check it before riding.
Rolled a tubular going in a straight line? That is a bad day ! I have pressed my luck a few times with them (descending mountain roads) and luckily had no incidents. My procedure - glue tire+rim then a few hours later do this again and mount+straighten. Inflate to half pressure or so and ride for a few miles and inflate fully afterwards. I found doing this really helps with cheap tires that may feel lumpy otherwise. ie rally tires.
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Old 03-05-23, 05:05 AM
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I’ve ridden tubulars since Ronnie was president of the States

Day 1
Take a pre-glued tubular
Clean the rim with acetone
Stretch the tubular by stepping on the inside and pulling it with both hands
Apply glue to the rim (and tire, if you don’t have a pre-glued tire on hand)
Install the tire
Semi inflate the tire
Align the tire tape by twisting the tire
Inflate tire to 100 psi
Wipe off excess glue from sidewall, rim, and hands using rag wetted with acetone
Install the wheel
Wait at least a day to dry
Ride the bike
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Old 03-05-23, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by daviddavieboy
Rolled a tubular going in a straight line? That is a bad day ! I have pressed my luck a few times with them (descending mountain roads) and luckily had no incidents.
The overall trajectory was a straight line, but as I was sprinting, there was some lateral movement of the bike & handlebars - enough to make me regret not having waited 24 hours after gluing to ride them as I completed my trip across the intersection on my side. I was more careful about observing recommended cure times afterward, and being very careful if I had to swap a front tire during a ride.
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Old 03-05-23, 12:09 PM
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Thanks for your insights, much appreciated!
I did not have any problems with tires rolling off and don't want to
Maybe I am pedantic a bit. And I want to know about things, thats because I asked if glue could be too dry to glue tires. Now it is all clear!
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Old 03-05-23, 01:03 PM
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I never put glue on a tire, and I never recall anyone else doing so either. I taped my first tires last fall and if all goes well this summer I'll never glue again.
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Old 03-08-23, 07:55 PM
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FWIW - I was brought up on 3M 8031 in the early 70’s as that was what my coach, Chuck Pranke, used. He got it from riding track tandems as the stoker for Jack Disney at the 1968 Olympics. They used 8031 because it was quick and they never had a problem with “is it cured enough”. We used it on our road bikes racing and training. Some training rides in Southern California involved winding, steep descents where most car drivers couldn’t keep up with us. The ability to glue and ride almost immediately was also great when providing race technical support.
8031 and other products with too much or “wrong” VOC’s were deemed polluting, health hazards or both and got kicked to the curb.
No matter what you use for rim cement, neatness counts. Waiting for the volatiles to flash off is key. We never had to clean the rim after mounting a tire. A thin coat on the rim just prior to mounting the tire allows you to center the tire if you don’t get it dead straight initially.
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Old 03-08-23, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by markwesti

I have used this withh good results . Buttuer it up and go .
3M FastTack (its precursor) was a popular 911 fix for race day, but it wasn't ideal for regular use. It would dry much, much quicker than typical glue--like 30 minutes and good to go. I liked to keep a spare tube in my race bag in case I got a flat on race day while warming up so I could change a flat in a pinch and not have to race on training wheels. But the stories of pulling off the b
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