verktyg 

I've searched all of the Campy BB literature that I've collected over the years. They only mention titanium spindles with SR BBs.

Did Campagnolo ever make steel spindles for Super Record bottom brackets with thick rifled alloy cups that used 3/16" BBs?

They started providing Steel BBs with SR gruppos after all the issues with the Ti spindles.

I have a BSC Campy BB with thick alloy cup that I took out of a frame a long time ago. It has 14 caged 3/16" BBs per side and a chrome plated 109mm symmetric spindle marked 68-SS. The PO had used it with SR cranks???

Suterland's 5th Edition mentions Post 1979 SR and C-Record BBs with thick alloy cups and either 114.5mm asymmetrical spindles for Super Record or 109mm symmetrical spindles for C-Record. No mention whether the SR spindles are Ti or steel???

Is there a steel spindle that I can use with these thick alloy cups? I have both pre-CPSC and post-CPSC cranks so a ~112mm or ~114.5mm spindle will work.

verktyg

Gary Fountain

As you know, the titanium Super Record bottom brackets didn't last very long but did have 2 versions. I think version 1 did have failures and was replaced with a stronger version 2. I have a couple of version 2's. Both Ti versions had smaller diameter balls than the usually supplied steel spindled BB's. The Campy BB that was usually supplied with a Super Record gruppo was the steel spindle and rifled alloy cups. I forget the official name for this BB but I just call them 'Super Record' even though it's not correct. The old Record BB cups didn't have the rifling - again as you know.

I once converted a steel spindled Campy BB to use a titanium spindle. I only had a Campy Gen. 2 Ti spindle and one cup. I also had a few steel spindled BB cups plus the one Campy cup to suit the Ti spindle. I decided to use 7/32" balls on one side and 3/16" balls on the other side. That was quite a complicated job as the ball races had to be changed to accomodate the spindle built for small Dia. balls to run on cups that took bigger Dia. balls. I had to press out and change the steel ball races on one side to accomodate the 3/16" balls - what a job! It worked and I'm still using it.

verktyg 

Thanks... We were a Teledyne Titan dealer during 1974-76. They produced a nicely made titanium BB spindle to replace Campy steel spindles. They sold for maybe 25% of the cost of a Campy SR Ti spindle and were better made too!

Bought one for ~ $25 in 1974 and used it for a while. I weighed 175 Lbs. and was still a masher at the time. Went back to a steel Campy spindle because the Ti spindle was too flexy side to side.



verkyt

mpetry912 

I think Gary nailed it there, Chas. The alloy cups had a pressed in steel bearing race and for that reason a smaller ball was used.

That smaller ball in turn matches the pressed on steel race on the titanium spindle.

So it's kind of one or the other.

you could try a hybrid setup - and see where the ball tracks land.

They did offer a "reduced" Super Record gruppo but pretty sure that included the steel BB spindle and cups.

These parts are paperweights now. I probably would not ride one for several reasons.

/markp

repechage

Reads Corsa Record to me.
what is the spindle overall length?

Mad Honk 

I have this one in the parts stash that came from different E-bay sellers a couple of years ago. I'm not really sure what it came off of or the production model but it is a steel spindle, alloy cups and steel inserts. Smiles, MH

not sure of the model but raised ledge for races in both the cups and spindle

The other side. It is an Italian BB.

SurferRosa

Welcome back, @verktyg. It's been a while!

repechage

Corsa Record 1984 onward till they changed

bikingshearer 

The cups for the SR bottom brackets may - may - be the missing link to recreating a bottom bracket for the 74mm wide BBs some Italians were fond of in the late 1950s and early 1960s (I'm looking at you, Bianchi and Cinelli). They took 3/16" bearings. Spindles can be found, with patience. Bearings are easy to get. But the cups? I never did find ones that would work.

Are those cups thin walled or thick walled? If thick walled, they won't work - I've tried. If thin walled, they probably will work and would be a godsend to the at least three or four benighted souls out there trying to piece together a replacement Italian threaded BB for a 74mm shell that takes 3/16" bearings. (Personally, I gave up and had a Phil Wood put in.)

Gary Fountain

Hi verkyt, thanks for your reply which I do find to be very interesting. Of course someone made a Ti spindle to replace the Campy steel version only I had never heard of it or even thought about this option. I was really interested to read that you stopped using it as it caused too much sideways flex. I agree that too much flex would turn me off as well.

JohnDThompson 

Campagnolo did make a steel Record bottom bracket that used 3/16" balls for a couple years in the early 60s. This was pre-Nuovo Record, so "thin" cups.

chain_whipped

Interesting. If I remember correctly, the Campy titanium spindle was hollow vs. the aftermarket Teledyne ti which is solid plus has steel cones (not press fit, rather set by slight heating for expansion, then contracts). Never recall hearing anyone having an issue with the Teledyne spindle.

Good laughs back when and to get the bike shop owner riled up. If anything, would straddle the bike, firmly apply brakes and keep it static, put pressure on the Campy record crank and watch it 'rubber band.' Nothing to do with the solid bb spindle.

repechage

Any Ti spindle will flex more when the same OD. I have some ti Teledyne spindles- one purchased new- very much provided chain rub.
material properties cannot be overcome without dimension change.

I did use the Teledyne ti bolts, procedure was torque with steel, remove and replace with the lightweight parts.

chain_whipped

Meant to say 'flexing the Campy Record crank arms'. Never the intention to overdo it and break it but I think it could easily be done by the static method and a quick pounce. Point being, very easy to observe the crank arm flex and not a bottom bracket spindle, regardless in titanium or steel.

Back then, component makers were stuck in a mental dillema. Only used small diameter bottom bracket spindle, yet no external bridging or rigid sleeve connecting the outboard bearings.

Concur on the procedure with those weight weenie crank bolts. The Arnold ally's were place holders for another breed of cyclist.

masispecial

Your 109mm bottom bracket is first generation C-Record, as seen in Catalog 18-bis. I cant see any evidence that Campagnolo ever offered a longer steel axle to suit these cups.

verktyg 

After MUCH searching, concluded that I have one of the early 68-SS C-Record bottom brackets with thick rifled BSC alloy cups and 3/16" BBs. (Same dimensionsa as the 68-SP stamped spindle)

Stamped 68-SS, 109mm wide, symmetrical 28mm-52mm-28mm for single or double chainrings.




No joy, the 3/16" balls ride at the very top of the spindle races!

In the early 80's, the Ti SR type 2 nutted solid spindles were still available but most SR cranks were supplied with 114.5mm ( BSC or French), 115.5mm (Italian) wide Nuovo Record bottom brackets with thick steel riffled cups. They used 1/4"balls.


John, they were called CON SFERE DA 3/16 - WITH 3/16 BALLS and as you mentioned, only only produced for a short time. I ran across an explanation why but lost track of it.


Campy hollow axle were Type 1, nutted solid spindles were Type 2. By 1975 we were hearing reports of Campy type 1 hollow titanium SR spindle failures. Teledyne was an aerospace company... I dabbled in weight weenie fantasies for a brief time in 1974-75 but then when back to standard Campy components for reliability. That stuff was great for someone who weighed 125-140 lbs. but not a 175 lb. masher!

Sutherland's didn't mention the spindle material in their chart. Since the C-Record spindles only came in steel, I was hoping that maybe there was a steel spindle for SR BBs too....


I have half a dozen Campy bottom brackets plus extra cups and spindles. Most of those BBs came out of bikes or I bought online and only 2 had the proper spindle!

I'm switching a bike back to all SR to sell so I didn't want to spend too much money on it. I found a 114.5mm Nuovo Record spindle in a French Record thin cup bottom bracket that I had. I picked up some BSC NR thick steel rifled cups cheap so I'm all set...

68-SS, 114.5mm wide asymmetrical Post 1977 NR spindle, 30mm-49mm-33.5mm dimensions.





EDITORIAL OPINION: In my research, I found over 70 different variations of Campy bottom brackets (including BSC, French and Italian plus Pista, Strada, Triple and Cross). A lot of them were stamped 68-SS or 70-SS. How much harder would it have been for Campy to stamp an identifying part number in those spindles instead of having to measure them to figure what they are?

Too many part number revisions is a clear cut example of urine poor engineering, lack of prototyping and other lazy manufacturing processes. I was a Porsche VW mechanic for a while. VW maybe had 10-11 part number revisions and Porsche 15-16 but they covered a span of 5 to 15 years!!!

verktyg