miamijim

Ding, ding, ding. Set yourself up for success.

I’ll post more tomorrow…and also try to retrieve all the pics!!

Harold74

Great to have you on board! Your franken-wheels haven't killed you yet via some manner of super nova taco'ing incident. That's a little something assuming that you actually ride the wheels...

KCT1986

Good of you to join us.

The reason that the early 8 speed hubs work well seems to be how closely the freehub's rear shoulder is to the hub flange.




I've used the body for FH-1056 (similar or the same as FH-6402) on a few hubs that were spaced less than 130mm OLD. With some axle spacer swapping, the center of flange to hub center is about 18mm and NDS/DS relative tension about 50%. Could be slightly better but this is about the best I can do and run a 9 speed cassette, (inner cog is not offset towards flange like 10 speed).

KCT1986

Yeah, whatevers, Your build, your choice.

miamijim

Pics have been re-loaded to my original thread: 10-speeds on a 126mm hub SUCCESS - Bike Forums

1. Know your math. 126mm hub = 63mm centerline. 63mm centerline - 17mm centerline to rt. flange = 46mm from rt. flange to lock nut.
2. 17mm centerline to rt. flange is what Shimano Dura Ace and Ultegra have. Based on that a 17mm + 46mm dimension is fine.
3. Go right. Get everything as far right as possible. Many factors come into play:
3a: Drop out / seat stay: When shifting from the small cog does the chain catch on the seat stay? Some designs do, some don't.
3b: Cassette lockring: Thin is in. The thinner the lockring the more the hub can be shifted right
3c: Speeds. 10s cassettes are narrower than 9s. Your not jamming a 9s on a 126mm hub unless its over dished.
4. Stackable: 130 to 126 = 4mm = 2mm per side that need to be 'found'. .5mm on this part plus .5mm on that part etc...stack enough .5's and you'll find 2mm.

Put the book down. Back in the day when I learned to build wheels we did it by feel and sound and the naked eye. Some wheels were built with so much dish the drive side looked 'flat'. Sometimes you had to do what you had to do!!! A few were reverse dished! Modern rims are a dream to build with, welded seams, machined side walls. Hubs have thick flanges that dont move under tension. Pick your parts, build and go.

KCT1986

Thanks so much for re-loading the pics. It will be helpful to anyone who reads that thread. It wasn't as good without the original pics.

1. With the more modern hubs, the math changed slightly. With a freehub body from a FH-1056c, the freehub body sits even closer to the right flange. Pic is from a transplant to a FH-5700. At the arrow you can see that the area between the shoulder, is flush or slightly recessed from the rim on the hub shell. The original thin washer behind the freehub body was used. My rough measurement of the distance between right flange center and the back of 9 speed cassette is a little less than 5mm. Don't have equipment to be more precise.


3. Yes, this is key. This was a test fit that was done a while ago. The original axle spacer of 1mm or so is still in there, and will be changed. Shimano & SRAM specs has 40.75mm from locknut to shoulder on freehub where the back of cassette sit, this can be reduced based on cassette a little.

3b. With a Shimano steel lockring & 9 speed cassette, the locknut protrudes slightly, even though it's not torqued down fully.

3c. With the 1056 body on a couple of newer hubs, (5700, 4500, 4600...), a 9 speed fits. It's close on both ends, with minimal clearance for chain/spoke contact and chain/dropout. Seatstay is not a concern with my frame/smallest sprocket size choice. With a Shimano 9 speed chain, with slightly protruding pins, had a little contact with the dropout, so had to add a .3mm axle spacer. SRAM X9 chain was fine.

4. Ha,ha. Squeezing out a little bit wherever possible. My rough measurement on the FH-4500/4600 with the 1056 freehub and spacer swaps comes out to just under 18mm center of flange to hub centerline. With a flange distance of about 53.5mm, NDS/DS tension is about 50%.

miamijim

You're working to the left. As previously stated, work to the right. Measure the OLD, divide by 2 and that's your centerline. Measure for the drive side flange center to the drive side lock nut. Subtract and that's your dish. Moving the cassette to the left does nothing to the dish. Does it give more room? Not really. Freehub bodies are fixed dimension...no black magic will allow more gears to be squeezed in.

If that hubs convereted to a 126mm old then: 126/2= 63 63-54mm fange to locknut=9mm Thats well below the number mentioned earlier.

KCT1986

Think that you are mis-understanding the image, the arrow in the prior pic is just to show where you can compare it to your pics on the other thread. With the 1056 freehub body in one of the newer hubs, (4500, 4600, 5700, still using the common freehub body attachment style), the freehub body sits a little closer to the flange. See below.

The distance between the blue & red line is about 5mm, down from the 5.75mm that was on older hubs.

This means that the axle bearings (green) and the locknut would also move closer to the flange. Can't really compare the actual position of the axle bearings within the freehub but it seems to be the same depth within the freehub body. Note that the right locknut pictured is not original, it was swapped to a 3.5mm, down from a 4.5mm or so.

The distance between the locknut and the shoulder where the cassette butts (blue & yellow), is about 40-mm, down from the normal spec of 40.75mm because of the locknut change.

The distance between the locknut & the center of flange (red & yellow) is about 45mm, which tracks to the above estimates. This would mean at 126mm OLD, right flange to hub center is about 18mm.

Flange width is just under 54mm, which seems about right based on Shimano's specs and adjusting from their method of measuring, (outside of flange to outside of flange), with a flange thickness of 4mm each flange.
Based on Shimano's flange width & offset distance specs, right side flange (center) to hub center should be 18.7mm. This reduces that a little since the drive side adjustments are not quite 2mm, and the stock OLD measurement seems to a little larger the stated 130mm.

If you have the parts available, you should try it out and see. Did similar to Tiagra 4500 & 4600 with about the same results. Didn't take those to 126mm since I didn't have all the washers to adjust, and 127+mm worked in the frame.

Harold74

1) Thank you very much for showing up here and for re-uploading the pics in your own thread.

2) Can you confirm, then, that your own 10sp + 126 OLN wheels were a success? You've used them and suffered no ill effects to date?

3) Can you elaborate upon what a "reverse dished" wheel is? That sounds almost sounds like drive side spoke in compression which, surely, cannot be the case. Maybe it's just the steep spokes on the NDS for some exotic reason?