Do patched road tubes last?
#51
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I seem to remember from childhood a type of patch a neighbor kid had that you had to light on fire to get it to adhere properly.
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I've always been under the impression that "vulcanizing fluid" is the same thing as rubber cement. Is this wrong?
I looked it up. They aren't. But interestingly, I also read:
So now I am left wondering if what folks in this thread are calling vulcanizing cement is in fact rubber cement?
I looked it up. They aren't. But interestingly, I also read:
- Vulcanizing cement needs heat to complete the process of adhesion
So now I am left wondering if what folks in this thread are calling vulcanizing cement is in fact rubber cement?
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No. Rubber cement is just a rubbery glue. It can work pretty well, but the Rema stuff forms a much stronger chemical bond. It's nearly impossible to remove a Rema patch if you've done it right.
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#56
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OK, it is the trichloroethylene solvent that is different.
cf: MSDS
Canonical rubber cement uses n-heptane, a solvent that has the merit of not being a carcinogen.
cf: MSDS
Canonical rubber cement uses n-heptane, a solvent that has the merit of not being a carcinogen.
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OK, it is the trichloroethylene solvent that is different.
cf: MSDS
Canonical rubber cement uses n-heptane, a solvent that has the merit of not being a carcinogen.
cf: MSDS
Canonical rubber cement uses n-heptane, a solvent that has the merit of not being a carcinogen.
There have been a lot of threads about this already, and @cyccommute could give a much better explanation of the chemistry if he's not tired of it by now.
#58
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I'm also a chemist.
I remain skeptical that there is any difference apart from the solvent.
If the solvent isn't the critical difference, why would they use a carcinogenic one?
If I had to guess, [this is wrong; see below] trichloroethylene dissolves the surface layer of the butyl tube a little bit better than n-heptane. It works as a contact cement, so the solvent essentially enables the rubber contact glue to bond to the tube surface as it evaporates. Then the little bit of adhesive on the patch sticks to the tacky surface created on the tube as the solvent evaporates, and the patch bonds to the tube as you apply pressure.
(I've used the little tubes primarily because the solvent dries up after you open it, not because I think it is magically different from rubber cement, which would probably be more than adequate. I found out the hard way the patch works reasonably well even in the absence of any cement.)
I remain skeptical that there is any difference apart from the solvent.
If the solvent isn't the critical difference, why would they use a carcinogenic one?
If I had to guess, [this is wrong; see below] trichloroethylene dissolves the surface layer of the butyl tube a little bit better than n-heptane. It works as a contact cement, so the solvent essentially enables the rubber contact glue to bond to the tube surface as it evaporates. Then the little bit of adhesive on the patch sticks to the tacky surface created on the tube as the solvent evaporates, and the patch bonds to the tube as you apply pressure.
(I've used the little tubes primarily because the solvent dries up after you open it, not because I think it is magically different from rubber cement, which would probably be more than adequate. I found out the hard way the patch works reasonably well even in the absence of any cement.)
Last edited by Polaris OBark; 05-09-22 at 09:35 AM.
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#60
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(The theory you added to your post on edit sounds plausible, too. I just have two semesters of chemistry and a passing interest in how it works. )
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#61
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For the record, I don't know anything about adhesives.
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OK, it is the trichloroethylene solvent that is different.
cf: MSDS
Canonical rubber cement uses n-heptane, a solvent that has the merit of not being a carcinogen.
cf: MSDS
Canonical rubber cement uses n-heptane, a solvent that has the merit of not being a carcinogen.
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Anyone here old enough to remember the patches you would clamp in place and bond to the tube by burning them on? There was a flammable fabric on the pack of the patch (encased in a tin form) and you would light it with a match and the heat from the burn would apparently help the bond. I can still smell them! Must have been toxic…like everything else in the early 70’s. LOL
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If I had to guess, trichloroethylene dissolves the surface layer of the butyl tube a little bit better than n-heptane. It works as a contact cement, so the solvent essentially enables the rubber contact glue to bond to the tube surface as it evaporates. Then the little bit of adhesive on the patch sticks to the tacky surface created on the tube as the solvent evaporates, and the patch bonds to the tube as you apply pressure.
(I've used the little tubes primarily because the solvent dries up after you open it, not because I think it is magically different from rubber cement, which would probably be more than adequate. I found out the hard way the patch works reasonably well even in the absence of any cement.)
I’m not clear on how you can apply a patch without cement.
By the way, I’m not an adhesive chemist either. Did a little bit of work on replacing phenol in phenol/formaldehyde plywood adhesives with wood pyrolysis oils long ago but that’s not this kid of adhesive. I have done a whole lot of studying of Rema’s patch chemistry as part of these kinds of discussions., however.
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Yes. My father still had some in the '70s. The back side had a pad of what seemed like cardboard made with gunpowder, that you could not put out once lit. Vulcan was the God of Fire, right? Real Vulcanizing involved real fire, that melted the patch material onto the tube. My friend did not believe my warning not to try lighting one, and filled the workshop with smoke minutes before my father came home. What are friends for?
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This thread started to get some insults going. I deleted a couple posts. Let’s stop. If you don’t like a post, how about ignoring and move on rather than insulting?
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I apologize. I shouldn’t have responded the way I did.
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#68
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#69
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+1 Tubes properly patched with Rema brand patches and cement and properly "stitched" to the tube will be fine. The tube should be good as new. Just make sure you sprinkle talc around the patched area so that it doesn't stick to the inside of the tire.
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#71
Jedi Master
A little OMS seemed to do the trick. I mixed a bit an a baby food jar, and it mixed up ok so I added some directly to the can. Kept adding ~10ml at a time until it reached what seemed like a good working consistency. I'll try to remember to report back how it holds up over time.
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#72
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Another pro patch tip. A DE razor with an aggressive head works great for shaving down the seams before sanding. I used a cheap Merkur Futur knockoff.
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I'm between jobs for a few weeks right now. This must be what Tuesday in retirement will be like for me someday.
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Not sure why anyone is messing with old school style patches and cement. These work just as good and no mess...
https://www.parktool.com/product/super-patch-kit-gp-2
https://www.parktool.com/product/super-patch-kit-gp-2
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Not sure why anyone is messing with old school style patches and cement. These work just as good and no mess...
https://www.parktool.com/product/super-patch-kit-gp-2
https://www.parktool.com/product/super-patch-kit-gp-2