sweeks

This can be done with regular hubs too by clamping the wheel to the *outside* of the frame with the lever end inside the dropout. This leaves one of the bearing locknut/cone assemblies available for adjustment.

davidad

A radial bearing is a cartridge bearing. The cartridge term is bike related.

Dave Mayer

How long can a set of cup and cone hubs last?

Several of the posters here have claimed that cartridge-bearing hubs are superior (not) because the bearings can be replaced if they go bad, whereas cup and cone hubs are throwaways.

First, it takes an immense amount of abuse to kill a mid-range or better Shimano hub. As in years of salt-water scuba bike polo or regularly using a pressure-washer to clean the bike. But working in a high-volume bike Co-op, I've seen many cup and cone hubs that need work. Mind you, these hubs were produced in the millions, so statistically, these hubs are not over-represented.

90% of the crunchy Shimano hubs that I see can be fixed with a new complement of ball bearings ($2), new cones (scavenged from damaged wheels - $5) and fresh grease of course. We have buckets of replacement cones and axle parts. It is only rarely that a hub is so abused that the cups are pitted. But these can be replaced too! Using the same tools and technique as replacing hub cartridge bearings.

I just pulled this exercise off on a donated Dura-Ace (freewheel) hub. The cones, balls and cups were pitted beyond repair, and the 'grease' remaining in the hub was a black sludge mixed with metal shavings. Obviously, this hub has led a hard life and had never seen any care and attention.


I punched out the old cups and replaced them with ones from an old wrecked Campy Record rear hub - exact dimensional fit. Cones and balls were an easy replacement. Hub is good as new, and good for another few 10's of thousands of miles. Or more if serviced at yearly intervals.

smd4

Yeah, I think I'll take my Dura Ace cup-and-cone hubs over just about anything, thank you.

Trakhak

Is cup-and-cone technology still used anywhere other than in bicycles?

smd4

I have no idea. But if it ain't broke, why fix it?

My RV still uses sold brass blocks riding on top of a steel axle as a bearing. Been working well since 1941.

jccaclimber

None that I can think of off hand. However, the general concept of an angular contact or axial thrust bearing with a threaded preload/clearance adjustment is still done in many millions, if not billions, of parts per year.

cyccommute 

That may be true for the cup but cones are often easily damaged and frequently need replacement…and at a far faster rate than cartridge bearing hubs. Given Shimano’s predereliction towards planned obsolescence, that can make replacing a cone difficult. If you can’t find a suitable replacement, the hub is functional junk.

But, again, you have to source the parts. I’ve never seen a replacement cup listed anywhere as a spare part. Granted, cup replacement is infrequent but that just makes getting the parts from a company that doesn’t support old tech even harder.

See the problem here? You may be able to replace the cups but the stars kind of have to align for that to happen. You just happen to have the Campy cups on hand. If you didn’t have the cups, you can’t repair the hubs. Most people probably wouldn’t go the extra mile to find out if the Camp cups were the same dimensions nor, for that matter, think to try them.

Compare that to a cartridge bearing hub. I can measure them and get the replacement bearing quickly and easily from just about anywhere that sells bearings. Many of the ones on bicycles can even be picked up from an auto parts store.

Dave Mayer

Adventures in replacing hub cartridge bearings

Been through every one of these - several times:

• Cannot remove bearing because it is corroded tight into the hub shell. Removal efforts eventually damages hub shell.
• Cannot remove cart bearing because it wasn't meant to be removed by anyone but the manufacturer. Wouldn't want any wanabee mechanics violating our gear, and we want to keep our customers tied to us... Will take a month coming and going.
• Hub shell gets ovalized on either removal or installation of replacement bearing. New bearings never seat correctly after this. Yeah, I know this can be categorized as pilot error, but we're all human.
• Bearing takes 3 weeks on special order. Bike shops keep cartridge bearings in stock? Ha.
• Cost: shop says that the uber-rare & precision 6001-2RS bearing will take 3 weeks to arrive, cost $25 and we will need to install it for you. Add $75 shop time.
• The hard sell: shop says that a ceramic upgrade will save you 45 watts per wheel, but cost $100 per bearing. Shop damages ceramic bearing on install.
• Motivation: shop actually has the uber-rare 6001 bearing in stock, but couldn't be bothered to even look for it when you really need a new wheel. Or better: a new bike.

cyccommute 

To be clear, I haven’t had to replace many cartridge bearings. That’s the beauty of cartridge bearings…they last, roughly, forever.

That said, I’ve never had problems replacing the bearing nor sourcing the bearing. Nor have I found 6001 bearings to be “rare”. They are 12x28x8mm bearings. On-line you can find thousands of them for less than $10…even the 2RS which just means “rubber seal, two sides”. I’ve even installed 6001-2RS in a hub rebuild (and old Ringle’ Super Hubabuba) and it was quite easy.

I can also find ceramic 6001-2RS bearings for as little as $15. They can be pricier but they don’t have to be. And, again, they are not rare nor even propietary.

Finally, I didn’t say that bike shops kept cartridge bearings in stock…the bearings seldom need replacement so shop don’t need to carry them in stock. I said you can get the bearings at auto parts stores. The 6002-2RS is a clutch pilot bearing. Granted clutch’s aren’t really that prevalent anymore so an auto parts store probably won’t carry too many in inventory either. But you can easily get them on-line.

icemilkcoffee 

That’s a good trick. But just as with the Campy hub, or the vise mounted fixture, you end up spinning the heavy wheel on the stationary hub. It’s hard to feel bearing tightness when you are spinning a heavy wheel. Much easier to feel bearing play when you are spinning the axle on a stationary wheel.
I do something similar to Shimano’s indexed system. I mark the axle so I can return the axle to the same clock position. And then I mark the adjustment cone so I can try it in different clock positions.
It kind of works but it’s a tedious and frustrating exercise that wastes my time and makes me angry.