staehpj1

Okay so I wonder how the kindle or other solutions fit in to folks current touring or other travel these days with so many other options. To be honest this is probably only a semi-serious inquiry since I most likely will continue to carry only my phone on tour and when backpacking.

I can see where the paper white would be a pretty nice device for evening reading. Not sure how it's smaller brother compares, but I think I'd probably spring for the paper white's better display over the regular kindle if going for an e-reader.

I own a Kindle Fire (not really an e-reader), but never used it much. I might look into trading in or selling the Fire if i were to buy a paper white. The Fire seemed like a good choice at the time, but I got a chromebook shortly after and started listening to audiobooks on the phone and the Fire kind of was forgotten. The chromebook saw heavy usage around home and for general travel.

I have mostly gotten to the point that for actual reading in the evening in camp I just listen to audio books on the phone. The thing is that it would be nice to have access to guide books and other references during the day on tour or hiking. That made me wonder about a kindle. One problem is that stuff like field guides are much more useful with the color illustrations. A color E-Ink display would be nice if it were able to view full color illustrations and conserve battery, but Kindle has not pursued that.

I could see carrying my Fire to hike the Florida Trail in order to have a bunch of field guides along. Same for other hikes. I'd also like to use it to carry a bunch of guides when mushroom hunting. My chromebook would work too, but the size of the fire seems about right for that usage. The thing is that withe either it would mean buying a ton of books in electronic format. I really wish that that when you bought the right to use a book that is what you bought and to get it in another format the cost was negligable. What you should be paying for is the intellectual property and to a much lesser extent the printing and distribution cost. Audiobooks do have added production and talent that justifies a bigger hike for that format, but the cost for buying an ebook when you already own the paper version ought to be somewhat nominal. I can see where the proof of ownership could be an issue, but certainly these days transactions are recorded and at least if purchaced from the same vendor they know what you bought. At least folks like Amazon do. They keep and use your data to try to sell you stuff. Sadly with the current pricing of ebooks it would cost a bundle to duplicate my mushroom guides or bird guides in e format.

So there seems to be a usage/feature matrix that is kind of complicated and where nothing really meets my needs to my full satisfaction. Battery life, weight, size, cost (device and content), useability of display for task at hand (reading, using guidebooks, etc), all come into play. I guess there just isn't any real good answer, just a bunch of so so ones (all of which are way better than we could have dreamed of a few decades ago).

indyfabz

As mentioned in that other thread, I got a Kindle Paper White. That was in 2017. I was flat out against one. I liked having a physical book, and you could tear out pages to help start campfires. But the woman I was dating introduced me to the device. It solved a major problem: Burning through headlamp batteries while reading at night. It does everything i need it to do. Charges quickly. Great battery life. Maybe once the available titles did not have what I was looking for. (That was The Catcher in the Rye, which was later made available electronically thanks toi Sallinger's heirs.) Bright enough to read in total darkness. You can enlarge or shrink the font. Easy to bookmark pages. Easy and fast to download books on the road as long as you have a basic WiFi connection. I have downloaded books in places where I thought "This is not going to work."

Probably weighs more than the average paperback I would bring, but then again I once started a tour with "For Whom the Bell Tolls." Try lugging that thing around the mountains of southern Spain and you will quickly understand tearing out pages as you go.

jpescatore

I mostly do short (3-5 day) tours and I just use the Kindle app on my phone. I download a few books from our local library and I'm good.

For longer tours, I usually bring my iPad mini and then just use the Kindle app on that.

mev

Depends on what you want most to do. I have several of these and here is how I see the tradeoffs for me:

Kindle paperwhite
- lighter weight
- black and white, not so good for books with diagrams, details
- very minimal browser
- my preference for reading text books, easy to download, good screen reading

Kindle fire
- slightly heavier than paperwhite
- color, still cases where paper format is better but a lot better
- better browser, some apps, together with wifi
- my in-between; ok for books, better for internet

Smart Phone
- voice and SMS communication
- better set of apps
- color but smaller screen, can read books but not optimal
- my choice more as communication device with backup for other functions

Chromebook
- larger and heavier
- internet dependent but ok set of apps and browser
- keyboard is nice for come capabilities
- portable internet terminal, for browser based stuff

Laptop
- larger and heavier
- desktop apps, better off internet than chormebook
- my choice for working remotely, photo processing, general purpose

I don't really use a chromebook much, it is more likely a full-fledged laptop. Many trips I'm willing to carry the weight for my purposes.
I've also reluctantly realized having a minimal phone can serve some purpose.

So with those two likely candidates with me, my likely other choice I'll bring is a kindle paperwhite in cases where I definitely want to optimize reading books. Things like guides/details I've found minimal usability for things like Lonely Planet guides or other books but I can instead lookup on internet with other choices.

If I wasn't taking a laptop, then a kindle fire is a better compromise choice for me, good enough for reading books, power usage higher but ok, better internet.

gauvins

Very well said. (complex usage/feature matrix; trade-offs; impressive progress)

1. The most salient difference in my usage pattern is that I am transitioning away from laptop. 5 years ago I would have never considered traveling without a laptop (MBP). Now, flagship smartphones are outperforming laptops, and I am (fairly) content using my phone as a Swiss Army computing device. Depending on the circumstances I'll carry a BT keyboard and (less often) a USB-C portable LCD panel. On a bike tour, a phone would be enough for me.
2. I was carrying a Kindle Paperwhite on tour, for the usual reasons (screen size, back-lit, e-ink display, water resistant, etc.) but actually rarely used it. Too tired to read at the end of the day, preferring to review next day's route on my phone and perhaps reading for a few minutes on my Kindle app before falling asleep.
3. I would add e-ink phones to the list of devices that bike tourers might consider. I've purchased an A5, back from this past summer trip and used it as my primary device for 3 months or so. One week on a single charge, much better display when outdoor. The problem was that, in addition to a few quirks, COVID passport apps are not supported (the Hisense is a Chinese device which is not allowed to use the Google framework. Some apps simply can't run). Huge bummer. I am back to S10.

To summarize -- I plan to rely on an e-ink phone as a primary device on tour. Cheap, fantastic power autonomy, excellent outdoor display. Supplemented by a large smartphone. I plan to upgrade my S10 to S10+. Cheap, large screen and DeX capable. DeX allows you to connect the phone to a TV or portable screen and work as if it were a "real" computer. Using DeX requires some planning. I find is easier to carry a portable LCD screen and 2 short USB-C cables -- one to connect to a portable battery, one to connect the screen; more adventurous travelers may hope that they can connect wirelessly to a TV. The field is evolving. Just want to say that I've done serious work from my phone, connecting to the cloud or a remote server, using DeX. Circumstances would determine the need for BT keyboard and LCD panel.

phughes

I use a Kobo. The one I have is waterproof, so I don't have to worry much about it.I have used it in pools, hot tubs, and it has been dunked with no issues. Rain is a non-issue. I prefer Kobo over Kindles since it can use more formats, without having to use Amazon. I began using ereaders many years ago when Sony came out with them, linked to libraries. I rarely buy a book anymore. I download them from the Philadelphia Public Library. That library now has books compatible with the Kindle, so it is getting better for Kindle users in that regard. There are more free books available online for non-Kindles though.

The e-ink readers are much nicer to read than an LCD screen. I read constantly. When I travel for work, I read at least four books a week, sometimes one a day. I highly recommend Kobo. Mine was bought in 2015 or 2016 and is going strong.

Pratt

I got a Paper White for Christmas, so it has not seen outside yet, but it weighs 6.4 oz, or 180 g for the grammarians. After I loaded a 420 page book on it, it weighed the same. I am a little concerned about its ruggedness, or lack thereof, so I am sort of looking for some kind of protective case for it. Also I want to see if it charges from my solar panel, my battery cache, and my dynamo hub. A real instruction manual would be nice.

staehpj1

Back in the early Kindle days my family and friends owned and beat up a few Kindles and they were pretty trouble free. We took some care with them, but didn't baby them and as far as I recall all of them were trouble free. Some of them were in the leather (leatherette?) folder and some were just stuck in a ziplock bag.

Back in the days that I had an early Kindle I used the Overdive system used by the library system in Baltimore County Maryland. I should probably get set up here in Tallahassee for that. They also use Overdrive. I could tinker with an app on my phone or chromebook before considering a Kobo or Paperwhite.

I probably actually read more public domain books from project gutenburg than books from the library on the kindle.

indyfabz

I got a cover for mine on the recommendation of the GF, especially because I would be using it outside a lot. There are many on Amazon. Both the unit and cover have held up great for nearly 5 years even after being dropped several times. The biggest problem is that insects can be attracted to the light when camping in buggy places, but it still beats them flying around a headlamp.

exercion

Another Kindle user here. I find the paperwhite to be easy to read, and light enough to be a non-issue even with the cover (highly recommend covers). I read in the evenings, during meal stops, and even sometimes force myself to take a break, snack, and chill and I'll pull it out then. I'm too old to try to do serious reading on a phone.

indyfabz

BTW…My cover is textured for a better grip. I don’t even remember what the unit looks like without it.

staehpj1

One thing I think makes the cover a must for a lot of folks is that the cover makes it feel like a book in your hands. That and the extra protection is worth a few ounces (and dollars) to most folks.

staehpj1

FWIW, the first time around I had a really hard time warming up to the interface on my Fire. It wound up forgotten. I mean that literally. I actually forgot I even had one. When I found it again I once again saw the formfactor and thought it looked perfect. Then once again I really am finding that I just don't like the interface. I can't even say what it is, but I can't seem to find it easy to use like an android phone, chromebook, or just about any other device I have used.

Some of the chrome tablets are actually pretty small and light and have a keyboard that can be left home. My wife has one that for me sort of blurs the size/weight distinction for this class of device. It isn't quite as small as the Fire, but it is smaller and ligher than the typical chromebook Oh, and I find that a chromebook isn't really any more internet dependent than a phone or Fire. They started out being comepletely internet dependent, but have become more able to handle most tasks offline. All of the google stuff has offline apps.

My point is that while I think your list is a good one, some of the boundaries are kind of blurred and for me at least not so clear cut.

staehpj1

Off topic a bit but... I mentioned maybe getting up to date with Overdrive here in Tallahassee after having used it years ago in Maryland. Any way I did that and found one thing very useful. I have mostly stopped buying magazines in recent years. Some of them I really miss, but when I subscribe I find that they often just don't deliver my money's worth. I may find a whole stack that I have not even read or barely skimmed. I was delighted how easy it is to read them online from the library. I prefer to read in full color for the illustrations since often I am shopping for inspiration for travel options. So reading them on my desktop computer is the preferred mode most of the time, but sitting in the yard with the chromebook is nice as well. It is also nice to be able to read a magazine in the doctors office waiting room on the phone. Usually there never were any good magazines there and since the pandemic there are typically none at all. The phone isn't the best reader, but it is better than nothing and always there.

The best part is that they have a huge selection of magazines on all kinds of interests available at no cost.

staehpj1

Well it seems that I have an old Kindle to play with. It was one my wife had, but hasn't used in a number of years. It is one of the ones with free 3G and wifi. I am in the process of manually installing a gagillion updates since I wiped it and it won't let me sign in without updating and also won't update in the usual manner. I plan to read on the various devices around home before my next trip whenever that may be. That way I'll have a better feel for which to take.

staehpj1

Do you know if you can you also play Amazon stuff (both ebooks and audiobooks) on it if you have an Amazon account?

I got kind of fed up with Audible/Amazon after years of having an Audible subscription. Around the time Amazon took over the rules changed and it became harder for me to take advantage of my subscripion. I was in the habit of being able to keep a bunch of books in the wish list. That way if I didn't order any they would grab from my list. Instead the new system just cancelled my credits. They couldn't offer anything the duplicated that functionality. Things kept changing in various ways that didn't work for me. I was pretty fed up by the time I retired and no longer had the long commute to listen to audiobooks. I am concerned that since I am no longer spending money with them and haven't been for the last ten or twelve years they will eventually kill my account and the hundreds of books, mostly audio will be gone despite the fact that they were supposed to be there forever (like the 3g support on my kindle).

I did get my old 3rd generation kindle working again, but have not yet gotten it to activate for audiobooks. Seems weird since amazon ebooks and audible audiobooks are supposedly the same account now. and both download from amazon fine. Activating the device ought to be for both.

Update:
Just in case anyone else is fighting with activating an old kindle and gets the "We're experiencing technical difficulties right now" when trying to activate it for audible. Using the Audible Download manager to activate it while connected to your computer via a usb cable worked for me.. I don't think Amazon makes the download manager available anymore, but places like CNET Download manager may have it. Any way it worked for me and my old 3rd gen kindle is alive and working for my ebook and audiobook library. (the ebook activation required entering the credentials and then ebtering the code emailed to me in the second attempt.)

For the hours I spent to get it all working I could have bought a case of kindles or kobos if my time was worth an hourly rate anything like I was paid before I retired..
https://download.cnet.com/AudibleManager/3000-2139_4-10205472.html"

phughes

Yes, I am aware. I just prefer the Kobo, or other readers, like my old Sonys, since they offer the ability to access much more than Kindles do. They are not constrained to that which Amazon allows you to access. There is a lot of free content on the internet, legal free content, that cannot be read on a Kindle. That is not to say Kindles are bad, they are very good, and work extremely well for the people who choose to use them.

staehpj1

Not sure I follow. I was asking if the kobo could use kindle content too. I am still not clear on that.

FWIW, it is pretty easy to send other content to the kindle. Much of what I read on muine was free content from project gutenburg. That can be done via a usb cable or an email address that kindle provides. Many formats are covered. I have used a variety of file formats. My 3rd generation kindle can use MS Word (DOC/DOCX), KPF, EPUB, MOBI, HTML (ZIP, HTM, or HTML), Rich Text Format (RTF), Plain Text (TXT),
Adobe PDF (PDF), and probably a few others. It will convert PDFs to KPFs if emailed to it with "convert" in the subject line.

phughes

So sorry, I misread your post. I am not sure if you can use audiobooks intended for the Kindle, but I do know you can use their books, but they have to be converted to remove DRM. As I said, there is nothing wrong with Kindles, they are great devices. I simply prefer Kobo. Some Kobo models support audiobooks, but the one I have does not. I use my phone or an MP3 player for that.

You may want to get on the Mobile Read Forum, it has all sorts of info on different devices, and like here, people who can supply tricks, tips, and advice. https://www.mobileread.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=50

staehpj1

I probably should look into stripping the drm out of copies of the books that I own. I respect the authors intellectual property, but don't trust amazon to not reneg on their promises at some point. I know that they are there to make a profit and I don't want to be left holdng an empty bag.

phughes

I'm the same, I respect the authors. I buy what I read, or borrow from a library, or find legitimate sources of free downloads, books that are now in the public domain. I understand your thoughts on Amazon though. I am not anti-Amazon at all, but do have issues with being locked to a device through their DRM. What happens when they stop supporting it? I think that won't happen for a long time though.

staehpj1

In addition to not wanting to be locked into the device and concern that they might stop supporting the files, I have a greater concern that I may at some point find my library gone since I have not purchased an audio book from them in quite a few years. It makes me nervous when I log in and my status shows as "non-member" since I don't have a subscription plan and have not in 8 years or so. I own hundreds of books but they were all purchased at some point before I retired 8 years ago when I was still doing a long commute.

BTW, my understanding is that Kobo.com has drm on the majotity of books bought from their store as well. Both Kobo and Amazon have DRM on their files and both allow the use of a wide variety of other files. A quick look doesn't seem to bear out Kobo being much more flexible in allowing the use of other file types. Both offer some drm free files Kobo does seem to have a much larger selection of drm free books and unlike kindle it is easier to find them.. So they have an edge there, but you could buy the drm free books from them and play them on any palyer even a kindle.

At present I have a working 3rd generation Kindle and a Kindle Fire. I am not inclined to buy a new reader at this time despite both being very old. Battery failure or some new tech would be the likely reasons for a replacement. If I were to buy something today I'd definitely take a look at the Kobo and the Paperwhite. The lack of support and hoops I had to jump through to get my third gen kindle going might make me lean toward the Kobo. It seemed like a conscious choice break the device registration and to not provide some basic info needed to work around the broken registration.

phughes

You need to use whatever you are comfortable with, and what fits your needs. It sounds like the Kindle is fine for you. I have been using ereaders since around 2007. I like what I use. I do not have to convert in order to read the widely available epub books. As for DRM on books purchased from Kobo, yes, they have it, as do most proprietary stores like Sony, and Amazon. What I like is the ability to read any epub without converting.

If you have a working ereader, there is really no need to biy a different one unless the new one offers you something your current one doesn't, and you feel you need it. Use it unitl it dies. I only replaced my old Sonys because of screen advances, and the fact I could get a waterproof ereader. All the Kindles are waterproof now. That is a big plus.

staehpj1

I certainly would choose waterproof over non waterproof, but wouldn't replace a working ereader just to get that fearure if just using it for general reading. I have really never had much trouble keeping my gear dry. I guess it would be cool to read in the pool or hot tub though. Using it for field guides when mushroom hunting or whatever in all kinds of weather it would really be nice to have that feature.

Truth be told, I'll most likely stick to audio books on the phone for reading on tour or on backpacking trips. I had hopes for the Fire to be useful for taking along color photo rich field guides, but I haven't fell in love with the fire enough to spend a bundle on field guides in ebook format. If there was a high resolution high color e-ink reader with great battery life and light enough weight I'd be tempted to buy one and start investing in an ebook field guide library.

phughes

I wouldn't replace an ereader just to get a waterproof one either. As for the Fire, I never liked them personally. I prefer reading on an e-ink book, or regular print book. E-ink is much easier on my eyes, and I can read in full sunlight easily, no glare.

I love audiobooks for travel. I listen to them while driving, and listen to them while riding the bike on tour. I always have a book to read as well. I like to read before going to bed. It is sometimes interesting switching gears between the two books as I change from listening to the audiobook to reading on the reader though.