Internal cabling
#1
we be rollin'
Thread Starter
Internal cabling
Even though I only look at this site from time to time, I was here when people voted for internal cabling. Now that people are saying on Youtube that their bikes are no longer as "serviceable" as they were, would some of you vote the same now?
#2
Full Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 480
Bikes: Pinarello Gavia TSX; Bianchi Intenso
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 90 Times
in
61 Posts
I know I will never buy another bicycle with internal cabling. I'v had my fill of threading shift and brake cables but I will admit some manufacturers do it better than others.
For that matter, when my current carbon fiber steed is done, it will not be replaced with carbon fiber.
For that matter, when my current carbon fiber steed is done, it will not be replaced with carbon fiber.
#3
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,721
Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4227 Post(s)
Liked 2,488 Times
in
1,286 Posts
Internal cable routing is one of those innovations which should of never happened. Just another example of bike industry pushing people to buy things that they don't need. Luckily there are still frames out there which have external cable routing.
Likes For wolfchild:
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,879
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3906 Post(s)
Liked 7,182 Times
in
2,905 Posts
There was a vote? It must have been a midterm, because I don’t remember it.
Likes For tomato coupe:
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South shore, L.I., NY
Posts: 6,826
Bikes: Flyxii FR322, Cannondale Topstone, Miyata City Liner, Specialized Chisel, Specialized Epic Evo
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3185 Post(s)
Liked 2,020 Times
in
1,158 Posts
Internal is not needed for mechanical systems, the cables were just fine routed on the exterior of the frame. With electronic its marginally safer for the cable to be on the inside of the frames. That then brings up a design problem for the manufacturers as they want frames to be "electronic ready" (really they mean Di2 ready) yet still be able to use mechanical, and that means all cables and housings internal.
Cannondale and Specialized solved this by designing the frames with ports or openings at the bottom of the bottom bracket that facilitates the running of cable and housing. It then becomes a no brainer to change mechanical cables when needed.
Cannondale and Specialized solved this by designing the frames with ports or openings at the bottom of the bottom bracket that facilitates the running of cable and housing. It then becomes a no brainer to change mechanical cables when needed.
Likes For Steve B.:
#6
Expired Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,461
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3638 Post(s)
Liked 5,316 Times
in
2,701 Posts
Link please, we may have forgotten how we voted.
#7
Clark W. Griswold
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,280
Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4253 Post(s)
Liked 3,866 Times
in
2,579 Posts
People moan about internal cable routing but it has been done for a long time and these days most manufacturers (at least of quality bikes) are using internal guides to make it easier. Maybe not perfect on all stuff and there are certainly some nightmare ones but lumping everything into it is silly. Yes external cables are easier to work with generally but internal cables look clean and so long as a manufacturer has done their job your job shouldn't be as hard.
My Cinelli Mash Work frame has internal cable routing for the rear brake and it was zero faff to install and doesn't make noise. It also looks good.
My Cinelli Mash Work frame has internal cable routing for the rear brake and it was zero faff to install and doesn't make noise. It also looks good.
Likes For veganbikes:
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,830
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Mentioned: 128 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4745 Post(s)
Liked 3,861 Times
in
2,510 Posts
Any bike can be cabled externally. Run the housings external. Use duct tape or electrical tape to keep it in place. (Some of the new tapes hold up very well in sunlight and weather.) Might require some thought on how to provide the stops but it can be done. Not saying it will be pretty but with enough thought and a little skill, you can come close.
Modifying bikes to better serve their owners is a concept as old as the hills. We have fellows over in C & V who have done stuff to hundreds of steel bikes. Epoxies and the like open the doors to doing all sorts of stuff with CF bikes for anyone willing to do it. (And, yes, there are CF bikes where caution should be used. Same as with steel and any other material.)
I'm fully aware this is heresy to some. My view? They are just bikes. Tools/toys meant to be used.
My bikes? Well one of my best bikes, a ti custom has been cut and welded when an interference showed up after months of use. New WB bosses on I think 3 bikes. (Losing track.) A pump peg. For cabling - I always bypass the stops for rear brake bare wire along the top tube and run full length housing. So far, all my bike that have some with stops for bare wire have been steel so the 1" clamps work but if I had the same on an oversize TT, I'd have to get artistic or take it to a pro.
I wish I could remember the ingenious modifications I've done to bikes in the past. I've done a couple of fun epoxy projects. (A CF wrap around soon to break chainstays on a Peugeot that turned it into the stiffest BB'd Peugeot probably ever and came out looking near professional. But that was a save-the-frame-from -the-dumpster, not a modification.)
Modifying bikes to better serve their owners is a concept as old as the hills. We have fellows over in C & V who have done stuff to hundreds of steel bikes. Epoxies and the like open the doors to doing all sorts of stuff with CF bikes for anyone willing to do it. (And, yes, there are CF bikes where caution should be used. Same as with steel and any other material.)
I'm fully aware this is heresy to some. My view? They are just bikes. Tools/toys meant to be used.
My bikes? Well one of my best bikes, a ti custom has been cut and welded when an interference showed up after months of use. New WB bosses on I think 3 bikes. (Losing track.) A pump peg. For cabling - I always bypass the stops for rear brake bare wire along the top tube and run full length housing. So far, all my bike that have some with stops for bare wire have been steel so the 1" clamps work but if I had the same on an oversize TT, I'd have to get artistic or take it to a pro.
I wish I could remember the ingenious modifications I've done to bikes in the past. I've done a couple of fun epoxy projects. (A CF wrap around soon to break chainstays on a Peugeot that turned it into the stiffest BB'd Peugeot probably ever and came out looking near professional. But that was a save-the-frame-from -the-dumpster, not a modification.)
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bastrop Texas
Posts: 4,418
Bikes: Univega, Peu P6, Peu PR-10, Ted Williams, Peu UO-8, Peu UO-18 Mixte, Peu Dolomites
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 929 Post(s)
Liked 1,595 Times
in
1,021 Posts
Someone told me long ago that internal cabling was for those guys who did not service their own bikes... Ha
But in reality if I had a high end bike with internal cabling I would not complain!
But in reality if I had a high end bike with internal cabling I would not complain!
__________________
No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
#10
Expired Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,461
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3638 Post(s)
Liked 5,316 Times
in
2,701 Posts
Do you guys remember how you voted that other time?
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,879
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3906 Post(s)
Liked 7,182 Times
in
2,905 Posts
Yes, now I remember! People actually voted 78%-22% against internal cabling, but Specialized challenged the results in court. They successfully argued that on-line votes should be thrown out, and the measure then passed 100%-0%, based on the one ballot that was hand delivered to the forum headquarters.
Likes For tomato coupe:
#12
Expired Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,461
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3638 Post(s)
Liked 5,316 Times
in
2,701 Posts
Just not going to win against BigBike....
Likes For shelbyfv:
#13
climber has-been
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,007
Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3341 Post(s)
Liked 3,442 Times
in
1,740 Posts
Not to worry. Soon everything will be wireless, and Big Bike will stop making anything that is cable -- or hose -- ready.
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat. ROUVY: terrymorse
Ride, Rest, Repeat. ROUVY: terrymorse
Last edited by terrymorse; 02-26-23 at 04:00 PM.
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,830
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Mentioned: 128 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4745 Post(s)
Liked 3,861 Times
in
2,510 Posts
I never received my ballot.
#15
Senior Member
Going to be overly honest here. Wrenched and managed bike shops since 1981. Seen it all. Internal cable and hose routing is a labor booster as we do charge more to do the internal stuff vs. external stuff. The current craze with routing through the bars and stem is a total pia, but once we get good at it and figure out the tricks to do it quickly (if that ever happens, thus far it ain't looking good) we will then reap the rewards of this routing.
Before I retired from the biz I left management and went back to wrenching and it took a couple dozen bikes to figure out some tricks to routing hoses and cables inside a frame. This is when the extra time paid off in labor dollars. What we billed for 30 minutes became 15 minute jobs. In a day that can add up provided the shop is a higher volume shop.
Keep in mind not all frames, even from the same maker and same model, are created equal. Some routing goes smooth, other routing does not. Especially on carbon frames where there are scraps and crevices inside the frame tubes that catch things as they pass thru.
Before I retired from the biz I left management and went back to wrenching and it took a couple dozen bikes to figure out some tricks to routing hoses and cables inside a frame. This is when the extra time paid off in labor dollars. What we billed for 30 minutes became 15 minute jobs. In a day that can add up provided the shop is a higher volume shop.
Keep in mind not all frames, even from the same maker and same model, are created equal. Some routing goes smooth, other routing does not. Especially on carbon frames where there are scraps and crevices inside the frame tubes that catch things as they pass thru.
Likes For TiHabanero:
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,856
Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque
Mentioned: 104 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2304 Post(s)
Liked 2,741 Times
in
1,499 Posts
IMHO there is little need other than looks, for internal cabling, unless you are a Tour de france level rider who can take advantage of the aerodynamics.
.
.
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
#17
Full Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 480
Bikes: Pinarello Gavia TSX; Bianchi Intenso
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 90 Times
in
61 Posts
A solution in search of a problem. Frankly it's easier to check the condition and lubricate as needed external cables.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2022
Location: USA - Southwest PA
Posts: 2,981
Bikes: Cannondale - Gary Fisher - Giant - Litespeed - Schwinn Paramount - Schwinn (lugged steel) - Trek OCLV
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1359 Post(s)
Liked 1,803 Times
in
1,038 Posts
I also prefer house wiring / plumbing to be external - mounted to brackets on the interior walls
TV cable - have that come into the house and the cable is laid on top of the floors through the house
at work - no false floors or wiring in the ceiling - all communications handled by cable laying on the floor
on our cars / trucks - replaced any sealed parking brake cables with a long exposed cable run through steel eyelets attached to subframe and floor
transmission - combo of cable and lever to shift actuator assy
and for the throttle - no fly-by-wire and no sealed cables or metal rods / linkage - drilled holes in the windshield hood ... use a pull cable fed through hole in the windshield and the hole in the hood ... cable is attached to the butterflies on the injectors
TV cable - have that come into the house and the cable is laid on top of the floors through the house
at work - no false floors or wiring in the ceiling - all communications handled by cable laying on the floor
on our cars / trucks - replaced any sealed parking brake cables with a long exposed cable run through steel eyelets attached to subframe and floor
transmission - combo of cable and lever to shift actuator assy
and for the throttle - no fly-by-wire and no sealed cables or metal rods / linkage - drilled holes in the windshield hood ... use a pull cable fed through hole in the windshield and the hole in the hood ... cable is attached to the butterflies on the injectors
#20
climber has-been
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,007
Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3341 Post(s)
Liked 3,442 Times
in
1,740 Posts
Don't do that.
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat. ROUVY: terrymorse
Ride, Rest, Repeat. ROUVY: terrymorse
#21
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,538
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10902 Post(s)
Liked 7,393 Times
in
4,148 Posts
Routing a single cable thru a toptube is nothing like full internal cables and hoses on a carbon disc frame.
#23
Clark W. Griswold
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,280
Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4253 Post(s)
Liked 3,866 Times
in
2,579 Posts
Oh I know it isn't totally the same but internal routing doesn't always have to be faff and not all of it is but we treat it like that sometimes.
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,830
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Mentioned: 128 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4745 Post(s)
Liked 3,861 Times
in
2,510 Posts
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,175
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4274 Post(s)
Liked 4,713 Times
in
2,911 Posts
It's one of those faffs that I think is worth it for the improved aesthetics alone. Also makes cleaning the frame easier without all the grime that gets between the cable housing and frame, especially on mtbs. No rubbing issues either. Once you move to electronic shifting it's just a couple of brake lines anyway. Once installed you can just forget about those.