Recessed Front Dropouts: Historic, Folkloric.
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Yeah, probably 5 seconds of extra twisting to both install and 5 seconds to remove.
As for what is the rush, its clearly just convenience. If you dont want to do this, thats cool. That doesnt mean its 'very dumb'.
You constantly bash anything that you dont do as a cyclist.
As for what is the rush, its clearly just convenience. If you dont want to do this, thats cool. That doesnt mean its 'very dumb'.
You constantly bash anything that you dont do as a cyclist.
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Lawyer lips efficacy as a “safety feature” is questionable. I’ll grant that they serve a purpose when it comes to using disc brakes and quick release, but for rim brake equipped bikes they encourage improper use of the quick release. I’ve seen many, many, many quick release skewers that have been screwed on like a wing nut because people don’t understand how the quick release works. I’ve also seen an equal number (or more) that are improperly tightened even when they aren’t used like a wing nut. People…including engineers and lawyers…don’t understand that a quick release with a cam won’t loosen if properly tightened. It’s not a matter of the quick release being poorly designed but a problem of them being improperly used.
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Do you still have wheel and pedal reflectors? How about an orange flag attached to your rear axle?
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A safety feature? Please. They’re annoying. Filing them off makes removing the front wheel less annoying. There is simply no need for them unless you have no clue how to properly operate a quick release.
Do you still have wheel and pedal reflectors? How about an orange flag attached to your rear axle?
Do you still have wheel and pedal reflectors? How about an orange flag attached to your rear axle?
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As I remember it, sometime in the late 1980s or early 1990s a fellow's front wheel came off. He sued the bike manufacturer, claiming the quick release 'vibrated loose' and the design was inherently unsafe. The prosecution called John Howard, US Olympic cyclist, RAAM competitor, land speed record holder, US National Roadracing Champion and Ironman champion as an expert (paid) witness. He testified that bicycle quick releases 'vibrate loose all the time'. The defendant subsequently lost and had to pay significant damages. Cycle companies operating in the US decided adding a secondary retention feature was cheap compared to being sued.
Interestingly, Mr. Howard's "The Cyclist's Companion" (1984) does not mention quick releases vibrating loose.
Interestingly, Mr. Howard's "The Cyclist's Companion" (1984) does not mention quick releases vibrating loose.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's soooo annoying to have to loosen the QR 3-4 turns to get that wheel off. I remove the wheels of my road bikes almost every time I use them. It's novver bothered me one iota. I couldn't care less if someone files them off. But MHO is that it's silly to be "annoyed" by them. They're a non factor.
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The (minor) inconvenience isn't the need to loosen the QR 3-4 turns when you remove a wheel, it's the need to turn it back just the right amount so that the QR closes properly. It's easy to just file the tabs off and never think about it again. Not much different than tossing away valve caps ...
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The (minor) inconvenience isn't the need to loosen the QR 3-4 turns when you remove a wheel, it's the need to turn it back just the right amount so that the QR closes properly. It's easy to just file the tabs off and never think about it again. Not much different than tossing away valve caps ...
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I'm sorry, I was joking about that. I know you weren't. I thought the grouchy old man emoji would tell that. My apologies for being way to grouchy about this. I should (OK I will) insert the classic video clip link here:
For posterity, the way I quickly get the QR right is: I clamp the QR and tighten the other side ("nut") finger tight. I release the QR, tighten the "nut" another whatever - 1/4 turn maybe? Then re-clamp the QR tight. It's not nearly as difficult to get right as the "QR" type of thru axle I had on my gravel bike. That indeed warranted a change so I replaced it with a regular thru axle bolt.
For posterity, the way I quickly get the QR right is: I clamp the QR and tighten the other side ("nut") finger tight. I release the QR, tighten the "nut" another whatever - 1/4 turn maybe? Then re-clamp the QR tight. It's not nearly as difficult to get right as the "QR" type of thru axle I had on my gravel bike. That indeed warranted a change so I replaced it with a regular thru axle bolt.
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As I remember it, sometime in the late 1980s or early 1990s a fellow's front wheel came off. He sued the bike manufacturer, claiming the quick release 'vibrated loose' and the design was inherently unsafe. The prosecution called John Howard, US Olympic cyclist, RAAM competitor, land speed record holder, US National Roadracing Champion and Ironman champion as an expert (paid) witness. He testified that bicycle quick releases 'vibrate loose all the time'. The defendant subsequently lost and had to pay significant damages.
N.B. older quick releases may not use a nylon insert, instead using a D-ring to secure threaded inserts. Tightening the quick release cam allows these inserts to rotate slightly with skewer tension, increasing the clamping force on the threads and preventing vibrational loosening in a manner analogous to that of the modern nylon insert.
Last edited by JohnDThompson; 11-26-22 at 08:49 AM.
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It's an insignificant skill or hassle for me to do it right. I do it a lot, for many, many years. I have an older bike without the tabs and the difference between the two types of fork dropouts is insignificant in putting the wheel on and off. 2 seconds for the un-tabbed wheel, 4 seconds for the tabbed wheel. Am I worried about the older, tab-less front wheel falling off due to operator error (on my part)? Absolutely not. So, while I really don't care if you or anyone else does it, but I have no reason not to file them off except there's no reason to, you can't convince me there is!
Under those revisions, bicycles equipped with cam-lock quick release mechanisms did not need auxiliary front wheel retention devices. Therefore, they were not so equipped. QRs had been used only on expensive bicycles; but they soon became offered on cheaper bicycles bought by the general public, who did not know how to use them. There were cases of front wheel disconnection. John Howard, a racer whose leg power exceeded his brain power, testified as an expert that QRs came loose, and therefore bicycles with QRs ought to have auxiliary retention devices, just as did bicycles with nutted axles.
Howard was wrong. QRs are made so that the use of the cam to grip the fork ends goes through a point of maximum tightness before completing the cam movement. Therefore, a QR that is hypothetically loosening itself has to get tighter still before becoming able to loosen itself. Therefore, it cannot do that of itself; it can be loosened only by use of the cam lever. I testified once that the instructions for using the QR, required by the CPSC for all the equipment on each particular bicycle, were defective, so that the user could think he had operated it properly but had not done so. I testified in another case about how a QR, once properly installed, could not come loose of itself.
Howard was wrong. QRs are made so that the use of the cam to grip the fork ends goes through a point of maximum tightness before completing the cam movement. Therefore, a QR that is hypothetically loosening itself has to get tighter still before becoming able to loosen itself. Therefore, it cannot do that of itself; it can be loosened only by use of the cam lever. I testified once that the instructions for using the QR, required by the CPSC for all the equipment on each particular bicycle, were defective, so that the user could think he had operated it properly but had not done so. I testified in another case about how a QR, once properly installed, could not come loose of itself.
And, again, there is the proviso that lawyer lips are necessary for disc brake equipped wheels. The force of braking can be enough to eject the front wheel.
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For posterity, the way I quickly get the QR right is: I clamp the QR and tighten the other side ("nut") finger tight. I release the QR, tighten the "nut" another whatever - 1/4 turn maybe? Then re-clamp the QR tight. It's not nearly as difficult to get right as the "QR" type of thru axle I had on my gravel bike. That indeed warranted a change so I replaced it with a regular thru axle bolt.
Unfortunately, 1Up doesn’t make them anymore
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Why would anyone ever tighten their front QR with the lever in that position??
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That said, it wouldn’t matter any way. It’s a myth that the quick release can be opened by hooking it on something. Properly tighten, the bike would crash if the quick release were hooked on something before it would “pop” open.
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It was temporary. I was working on centering the brakes. The lever wasn’t left in that position.
That said, it wouldn’t matter any way. It’s a myth that the quick release can be opened by hooking it on something. Properly tighten, the bike would crash if the quick release were hooked on something before it would “pop” open.
That said, it wouldn’t matter any way. It’s a myth that the quick release can be opened by hooking it on something. Properly tighten, the bike would crash if the quick release were hooked on something before it would “pop” open.
#45
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Your OCD is showing and you are putting emPHASis on the wrong sylLABLE. I might leave it there in the future
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The two most frustrating issues for me with the tabs was when I was putting the bikes on a roof rack and later when I had a station wagon and had to remove the front wheel to store the bike and again when I had finished riding to put the bike back in. It was just a hassle compared to the other bikes which were fast an easy. When one is constantly taking the wheels on an off, compared to just keeping your bike in the garage and riding, it does become a PITA.
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"Stupid" sure gets thrown around a lot on this forum.
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If the shoe fits…
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…to you! Doesn’t matter to me. And, yet again, you are missing the point. It’s not about where the skewer lever is. It’s about the 1Up nut.
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