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At What Point do You Transition From Road Bike to Endurance Bike?

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At What Point do You Transition From Road Bike to Endurance Bike?

Old 03-11-21, 11:57 PM
  #26  
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Road bike? Endurance bike? These are pretty meaningless marketing terms designed to persuade people that they need a bike for each category. "Road bike" is a pretty generic term that these days refers to what would have in the past been called a "racing bike" (i.e. anything with 5 or more gears and drop handlebars), though in this thread it seems to be referring to something with road race geometry. "Endurance bike" seems to be a fairly recent marketing term that refers to what would previously have been called a "touring bike". However, "endurance" sounds a bit sexier than "touring", so that's what the marketers use. Have fun with that silliness. In the meantime I will continue to ride my very versatile vintage bikes that I have used for both racing and touring.
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Old 03-12-21, 05:59 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by big john
Is it the position or the ride quality that makes you feel beat up? I have a Titanium Seven and it is quite stiff but if I ride on smoother roads it doesn't bother me as much as when I ride on bad roads. I also have a steel bike which is much more forgiving. They are set up with a similar position and similar wheels and tires. If I did get a new bike it would be a similar fit but definitely not the bone jarring stiffness of the Seven. I'm 67 next month, btw.

I would think your Cannondale should be a nice ride. Maybe your position needs tweaking a bit?
This is where I would start. I'm 75 and my CAAD 12 set up is "aggressive" according to my Cannondale dealer. This is what it looks like. I don't know if others would consider it aggressive but it's comfortable for me.

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Old 03-12-21, 06:18 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Jumpski
I am 60 years young,...................................

I have NEVER seen anything get younger with age. I'm 70 YEARS OLD and proud to say so and if my Prostate Cancer or a vehicle doesn't kill me, on July 10th I'll celebrate 71 by riding my BIRTHDAY RIDE of 142 miles = double age PLUS 1 mile extra for GOOD LUCK.


Originally Posted by davester
Road bike? Endurance bike? These are pretty meaningless marketing terms designed to persuade people that they need a bike for each category. "Road bike" is a pretty generic term that these days refers to what would have in the past been called a "racing bike" (i.e. anything with 5 or more gears and drop handlebars), though in this thread it seems to be referring to something with road race geometry. "Endurance bike" seems to be a fairly recent marketing term that refers to what would previously have been called a "touring bike". However, "endurance" sounds a bit sexier than "touring", so that's what the marketers use. Have fun with that silliness. In the meantime I will continue to ride my very versatile vintage bikes that I have used for both racing and touring.

My '72 P-15 Paramount HAD A TOURING GEOMETRY FRAME as does my Custom Paramount. My RR Paramount has a ROAD RACING geometry as does my Giant Propel Advanced SL and not a Touring, Crit or Track geometry. My 2018 Roubaix Expert is none of the preceding frame geometries so I agree can be in put in an ENDURANCE category. Just my opinion.
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Old 03-12-21, 07:14 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Bassmanbob
I think it is more the lack of shock absorption on a CF bike
Along with the frame material don’t forget about those fat and cushy 38c’s that you have on the Trek 520.

In summary heres what us old stiff guys need for a good long road ride:
  1. A shock absorbing frame
  2. 30-32mm tires run on the lower side of pressures (50’s/60’s)
  3. A good bike fit
  4. Very well-padded gloves to minimize shocks through the hands
  5. A very well-padded comfortable fitting chamois
We need all 5, not just #3.
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Old 03-12-21, 07:46 AM
  #30  
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I would only add that any bike be comfortable in multiple hand positions if it is intended for endurance rides.
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Old 03-12-21, 07:51 AM
  #31  
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The body adapts. You have adapted to riding on the tops during your solo pandemic rides. Imagine telling your framebuilder, "I'm getting old and slow so build me my dream bike that lets me do that comfortably."

edit: I have never been able to touch my toes, sit cross legged, bend my wrist back further than 45 degrees or do any of the stretches that other "athletes" do.
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Old 03-12-21, 08:56 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by davester
Road bike? Endurance bike? These are pretty meaningless marketing terms designed to persuade people that they need a bike for each category. "Road bike" is a pretty generic term that these days refers to what would have in the past been called a "racing bike" (i.e. anything with 5 or more gears and drop handlebars), though in this thread it seems to be referring to something with road race geometry. "Endurance bike" seems to be a fairly recent marketing term that refers to what would previously have been called a "touring bike". However, "endurance" sounds a bit sexier than "touring", so that's what the marketers use. Have fun with that silliness. In the meantime I will continue to ride my very versatile vintage bikes that I have used for both racing and touring.
"Endurance bike" throws me, too. Tourers were in the past designed for comfort over long distanes, trying to strike a balance between loaded comfort and unloaded comfort. How much load is a big differentiator. We have "traditional randonneuses," which would have standard-diameter steel tubes in thin-wall (7/4/7, often) high-strength tubing like 753, TruTemper OX-Plat, Columbus EL or Kaisei. Normally these are intended for front bag loads, primarily. I don't know what the limit is for low-rider loading, if any. I have one of these, a Terraferma. To stabilize the handling with an upper front load many have pretty low trail, 40 mm for 700c or 35-ish for 650b. To me this is strongly in the spirit of the phrase "endurance bike." Plus, Jan Heine and other owners of such bikes have shown they can be very good rides on rugged to good back roads.

The builder of my rando, Mike Terraferma, also makes light 700c skinny-tire racers using hardened standard-diameter steel. So, "endurance bike" can also refer to a bike with a racing position, 'bars a few cm lower than a typical rando. But here the line between "racing" and "endurance" becomes very fuzzy.

The OP's experience with numerous centuries on a seemingly "rough-riding" Cannondale shows the blurry nature of the line at least if I look at it this way.

I don't know the ride of the OP's Trek 520. If it's an early one, it probably feels about like my now-venerable 1984 610. I can attest mine is not very cushy and compliant compared to my Terraferma, though it has 650b x 42s. Except perhaps for the Trek 720 (touring but with loooong 47 cm chainstays) Trek claimed a downtube made of the Touring tube, 28.6 mm OD and 1.0/0.7/1.0 butting profile versus 7/4/7 or 7/5/7 (the 753 tubeset). Thin gauge frame tubes are getting a lot more attention these days, perhaps this would be a good direction for the OP to go. Light and fast, but better shock absorption, especially if the bike has clearance for tires up in the 32 mm width class.
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Old 03-12-21, 08:59 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by scottfsmith
Along with the frame material don’t forget about those fat and cushy 38c’s that you have on the Trek 520.

In summary heres what us old stiff guys need for a good long road ride:
  1. A shock absorbing frame
  2. 30-32mm tires run on the lower side of pressures (50’s/60’s)
  3. A good bike fit
  4. Very well-padded gloves to minimize shocks through the hands
  5. A very well-padded comfortable fitting chamois
We need all 5, not just #3.
Hear, hear! But without a good fit including saddle choice, the others aren't enough.
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Old 03-12-21, 09:01 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by bruce19
This is where I would start. I'm 75 and my CAAD 12 set up is "aggressive" according to my Cannondale dealer. This is what it looks like. I don't know if others would consider it aggressive but it's comfortable for me.

It doesn't look super aggressive to me, maybe 2 inch drop? That's close to what I use but one of my bikes has shallow drop bars and the other has deep drop bars. The bar tops on both are about 1.5-2 inches below the saddle.
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Old 03-12-21, 09:04 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Bassmanbob
When I have more time, I need to read this again. Thanks.
Thank you, and take your time. I think Carbonfiberboy has somewhere said all of this with many fewer words, so maybe we can find a link.
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Old 03-12-21, 09:09 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by big john
It doesn't look super aggressive to me, maybe 2 inch drop? That's close to what I use but one of my bikes has shallow drop bars and the other has deep drop bars. The bar tops on both are about 1.5-2 inches below the saddle.
Like another antique, the high-fidelity store, bike shops have a language which is nearly incomprehensible in English. To me, "endurance bike" some how is used to "endure," which has to involve long distances and long hours. Jan Heine long ago wrote an article about the bikes use for the classic Paris-Brest-Paris randonneuring ride, and found they are all over the place. But by any common-sense definition, each one was an endurance bike.

Just make your bike efficient and comfortable.
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Old 03-12-21, 09:22 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Road Fan
Like another antique, the high-fidelity store, bike shops have a language which is nearly incomprehensible in English. To me, "endurance bike" some how is used to "endure," which has to involve long distances and long hours. Jan Heine long ago wrote an article about the bikes use for the classic Paris-Brest-Paris randonneuring ride, and found they are all over the place. But by any common-sense definition, each one was an endurance bike.

Just make your bike efficient and comfortable.
The Seven pictured above is a great bike and I've put about 40K miles on it but the stiff, unforgiving frame and fork take their toll on rough roads like we have more and more these days. The Gunnar is much more compliant and I want to start riding it more while I try and decide about a new bike.

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Old 03-12-21, 09:29 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Road Fan
Like another antique, the high-fidelity store, bike shops have a language which is nearly incomprehensible in English. To me, "endurance bike" some how is used to "endure," which has to involve long distances and long hours. Jan Heine long ago wrote an article about the bikes use for the classic Paris-Brest-Paris randonneuring ride, and found they are all over the place. But by any common-sense definition, each one was an endurance bike.

Just make your bike efficient and comfortable.
What's in a name, right? Endurance bike is just marketing speak for some geometry changes like taller head tube and maybe slacker steering angles. All manufacturers don't use the term and as you have said, any bike that is comfortable will work for long rides.
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Old 03-12-21, 10:10 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by big john
It doesn't look super aggressive to me, maybe 2 inch drop?
So I had to measure it. Exactly 3 inches.

Last edited by Trsnrtr; 03-19-21 at 06:53 AM. Reason: Fixed quote tags
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Old 03-12-21, 11:29 AM
  #40  
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When I see the term Endurance used in marketing for their bikes, it's just because there is nothing other special about it. If it were an endurance bike made for touring, they'd have it in the Touring category. If it were an endurance bike made with racing in mind they'd have it in the Race bike category. When nothing else can be said about it, it's just left as Endurance.... which all the others are too.

Most everything we think of as a road bike is a endurance bike. The confusion began many years ago in the good old vintage days.
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Old 03-12-21, 06:08 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by big john
What's in a name, right? Endurance bike is just marketing speak for some geometry changes like taller head tube and maybe slacker steering angles. All manufacturers don't use the term and as you have said, any bike that is comfortable will work for long rides.

Yep, I agree! That's why I talked about efficiency and comfortable.
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Old 03-13-21, 02:04 AM
  #42  
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For me, when someone decided super-slammed bar was required for a "road" bike, I started looking for something with a bit more forgiving stack/reach numbers. But the trend seems to be for "endurance" to converge with "road". Back about 10 years ago Cervelo for instance had the RS but then decided that the R3 geometry would be their new "endurance". If you look at something today like BMC Roadmachine, it's marketed as endurance but I don't really see it, not at least compared to Roubaix which has always seemed to me to be the ideal endurance geometry. Now as far as the various rubber bits, that's not something I've had a hankering for. Likewise I can't see going beyond 25s myself. And same for discs, though I guess that distinction between road/endurance is going away pretty fast.

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Old 03-13-21, 07:17 AM
  #43  
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I'm nearly 70, and I'll be riding a Felt S22 this weekend. Aluminum . . . and comfy. (Stock photo; mine has pedals.)
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Old 03-13-21, 03:34 PM
  #44  
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My plan is to change from 25’s to 28’s with appropriate inflation (if anyone has that chart available). I may also look into a shorter stem, new gloves and see how this works. I’m currently very happy with my saddle.
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Old 03-13-21, 06:22 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by davester
Road bike? Endurance bike? These are pretty meaningless marketing terms designed to persuade people that they need a bike for each category. "Road bike" is a pretty generic term that these days refers to what would have in the past been called a "racing bike" (i.e. anything with 5 or more gears and drop handlebars), though in this thread it seems to be referring to something with road race geometry. "Endurance bike" seems to be a fairly recent marketing term that refers to what would previously have been called a "touring bike". However, "endurance" sounds a bit sexier than "touring", so that's what the marketers use. Have fun with that silliness. In the meantime I will continue to ride my very versatile vintage bikes that I have used for both racing and touring.
in my view ‘road bike’ refers to bicycles primarily oriented to going fast, with little consideration for comfort, if it’s in conflict with speed. Relative comfort is a matter of fit.

An ‘endurance bike’ considers comfort and speed in more equal quantities.

A fast rider is fast on both. Slightly faster on one. A less fit rider (for whatever reason) is slow on both, but more comfortable on one.
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Old 03-13-21, 07:45 PM
  #46  
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I had a couple touring bikes. They were road bikes with long chainstays, both to add stability and to prevent the rider's heel from hitting the panniers. They also had cantilever brakes and eyelets for 3 bottle cages, and eyelets for front and rear racks. They also had slack head angles and bar-end shifters. My Cannondale touring bike was a nice ride when unloaded and also when I put racks and extra weight on it. I sold it last summer.
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Old 03-13-21, 08:11 PM
  #47  
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Forget the age topic. Figure out what you like, what you value, and find a suitable bike. I like to spend a day in the saddle, and I like classic styling, so I built a steel framed bike with clearance for wide tires and mounts for fenders. I'll ride brevets with people on carbon road bikes with naked wheels and 23mm tires.

Endurance, gravel, cross, rando/brevet, and all road are marketing terms, but they are resulting in more bikes that offer a wider variety of features like wide tire clearance, mounts, brake types, gearing options, frame geometries, and frame materials. If you're in the market for a bike, i think there are more off the shelf options now than we've ever had.
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Old 03-14-21, 07:38 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by BCAC
in my view ‘road bike’ refers to bicycles primarily oriented to going fast, with little consideration for comfort, if it’s in conflict with speed.
As the dude says, "That's just like, your opinion, man." The term "road bike" for many decades has meant "not a mountain bike or track bike" and included touring bikes, criterium bikes, road racing bikes, sports bikes, etc) (i.e. everything that you rode on a road rather than dirt or a track). It's only very recently that some (and most definitely not all) people have started to use the term solely to describe all-out race bikes.

Last edited by davester; 03-14-21 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 03-15-21, 10:42 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by davester
As the dude says, "That's just like, your opinion, man." The term "road bike" for many decades has meant "not a mountain bike or track bike" and included touring bikes, criterium bikes, road racing bikes, sports bikes, etc) (i.e. everything that you rode on a road rather than dirt or a track). It's only very recently that some (and most definitely not all) people have started to use the term solely to describe all-out race bikes.
That’s why I started my post off with the words “In my view”.

The Dude abides....
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Old 03-15-21, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by big john
I had a couple touring bikes. They were road bikes with long chainstays, both to add stability and to prevent the rider's heel from hitting the panniers. They also had cantilever brakes and eyelets for 3 bottle cages, and eyelets for front and rear racks. They also had slack head angles and bar-end shifters. My Cannondale touring bike was a nice ride when unloaded and also when I put racks and extra weight on it. I sold it last summer.
hard to believe you are 75, wow
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