tcs

...the path must climb up over the clearance height of a truck/lorry/double-decker bus/etc. With a depressed path, the elevation change is only ~half as much.



Note: depressed pathways need good drainage (which might be a problem in Netherlands!) and would of course be more fuss and bother to retrofit into an existing auto grid. The depressed path will remain at the temperature of the ground while the elevated path will follow the temperature of the air: i.e., the elevated path will frost and freeze more often (in climates where this is a possibility).

rossiny

Why would they build a bike bath going in the wrong direction. As a driver you would not expect this. He was very lucky the driver was able to react and stop after initial contact.. thank God..

UniChris

It's sadly quite common - I'm strongly arguing against some local plans, but it's clear they're going to go ahead and do it anyway, because they're landscape architects who imagine it would be fun to go for a bike ride, but have no actual cycling experience to inform understanding of the problem.

Once they start talking about physical barriers and creating an experience that doesn't feel like riding on the road, they tend to put the path in each direction on the same side of the road so it can use a single barrier.

But it unsafe in ways most users don't realize - it's almost as if the plan is to trick people into using it despite the danger, and then hope the volume of use is enough to force it to work against the uphill battle of it being illogical.

rossiny

I've seen this first hand on a bike path.. I rounded the corner on my bike, an older couple was walking in the opposite direction.. i almost collided had i not reacted at last minute reflex. I had no way of seeing them, nor thinking they would be walking in the opposite direction..

UniChris

​​​​​​Sorry, but that's simply user error - you were riding above the design speed of the route. What if it had been a couple of little kids going the proper direction but barely moving, while someone was correctly oncoming on the other side?

You took the blind corner too fast.

Shared use paths just aren't designed for higher cycling speeds, that's really the role of regular vehicle lanes and on-road bike lanes, limited to the situations where you can see your stopping distance ahead.

But even riding on the road, if you round a corner and almost hit a car disabled in the middle of the lane, you were operating at an unsafe speed.

sweeks

I blame God for letting him hit the cyclist in the first place.

livedarklions

I'm going to disagree with you to the extent that you state this like those conditions never apply to shared use paths. Rail trails are often very flat, wide and with good sight lines. There's several stretches in your area where I ride quite safely at 20+ mph. knowing I'll have plenty of warning for the need to slow down or stop. But yeah, barreling around a blind curve is never a good idea. Sometimes the curve is so sharp (especially if routed to meet up with an underpass) that I'll actually yell before I proceed slowly into the curve.

Korina

As a driver, shouldn't you look in both directions before going?

I nearly got hit by a man one of those giant pickups; I was crossing a small street, he zoomed down it to the stop sign, passing two feet in front of me and scaring the bejeezus out of me. He was looking right for a gap in oncoming traffic for at least a couple of minutes and never even looked in my direction. I know, because I was standing there the entire time, watching. I wanted to walk up and slap the truck hard but I was wearing a heavy silver ring and would have damaged more than the paint.

I remember from driver's ed, you're supposed to look in both directions every time.

livedarklions

Obviously, you should look both ways as a driver, but the habit of looking in the direction of where you expect oncoming traffic to originate is so ingrained, you might not be conscious you're skipping the two way check. There's a "wrong way" bike path like this on Arsenal St., in Watertown, MA, and it crosses multiple driveways (from parking ramps, etc.) and intersections. I find that as a rider I basically have to scream at drivers to get them to look in the "wrong" direction. It's beautifully paved, it's straight and flat, and you're absolutely crazy if you try to ride it fast. Arsenal St. itself is a bike nightmare (narrow, lots of traffic, potholes), otherwise I wouldn't have considered using that path.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3643...7i16384!8i8192

Yes, it's inexcusable to go without checking both ways, but as a rider, you need to be aware that it's highly likely that someone will.

Korina

I did not know that. I didn't drive long enough for it to become automatic; I was always acutely aware I was controlling a dangerous weapon.

That bike lane reminds me of something...

work4bike

Personally, I don't like the bike infrastructure like what's in Amsterdam or Copenhagen; I much rather continue riding on the roads, partly because I'm somewhat of a Lance-wannabe

However, I can see people that live in large cities, such as NYC and other places that would very much want that type of cycling infrastructure. And from what I know of cycling in those areas, that's really the only way to address the cycling issues for those large cities. However, I just don't see any city making the changes necessary.

If you like just tooling around on a bike, this really is the best cycling infrastructure, but that's a lot of work to build into an already existing city. But I guess it's kind of like planting a tree, the best time to plant a tree is 50-years ago, the second best time to plant a tree is now


Imagine building this in NYC....

CliffordK

I kind of like it.

For cars, the key is to be in the correct lane when entering the roundabout. Hopefully well marked for at least a half mile ahead.

As far as I can tell, despite a zillion lanes, all vehicles driving in the roundabout have a right of way, and only cross lanes that are entering the round about. And, the lane they enter determines exactly where they exit.

For bikes, they appear to be 2-way bike lanes, and not necessarily on both sides of the driving road. If one doesn't need to enter the roundabout, one can simply ride around the edge. If one needs to cross, there is the bridge.

The biggest annoyance is that the bridge only has a single offramp in any direction. So, once down to street level, one may have to reverse course perhaps 1/4 mile.

===================

Overall, Holland has some excellent cycle path designs where there are wide boulevards. One issue that US cities frequently encounter are narrow streets, and trying to add as many car and bicycle lanes as they can cram in, and no place to put the bicycles.

It is so much better to plan ahead when building new.

Stadjer

One of my favourite streets to cycle through here (admittedly in the part of the Netherlands that isn't Holland) is partly too narrow for a car and a bike, and the sidewalk is to narrow for a bike. When it comes to narrow streets, maybe some Asian cities or very old Italian cities can compete but that's about it.

The cycling advocacy in less developped countries in this respect, is far too focussed on visible infrastructure.

Or maintenanc, or resurfacing. In the Netherlands you cannot build a road without catering to all needs, it's a legal impossibilty, but often the improvements are already decided on shortly after a road was build or done, and the adjustements simply have to wait until the next big maintenance moment. There's structure and there is continuous improvement.

CrankyOne

Should yes. Do, rarely. In reality drivers look primarily for who will be a threat to THEM, not who they will threaten.

This is a major fundamental difference in U.S. and Dutch (and other EU) traffic engineering.

• Dutch engineers know the above and they assume that drivers will make mistakes and they design roads to lessen the effect of those mistakes.
• U.S. engineers design with an expectation that all drivers will pay perfect attention at all times and perfectly obey every traffic law and regulation at all times.

This is why the U.S. has the most dangerous roads with the highest fatality rates of all developed countries.

Concrete (The Dutch Way) Enforces Better Than Paint or Paper (The U.S. Way)

CrankyOne

Here's a discussion on one project that touches on these topics: Hodgson Rd ? Anatomy Of A Dangerous Road Design | LocalMile