Kekec1965

Bought this lovely bike from an older gentelman in north of Italy couple of years ago. Mix of DA 7402 and 600 parts, smooth ride, perfect really. Exotic paint scheme makes it even better. But the question I'm asking myself - is this a real Triestina or even a real Wilier - it does have a badge and the sticker somehow suggests it was refurbed (rivernicata), so it could possible be. No serial number apart frame number (56) on bottom bracket. The story told to be me was that it was custom built by a Wilier frame builder for this (well off, judging by the house I got into to pick up a bike) gent.

What are your thoughts please?

Tomm Willians

My wife and I own a pair of Ramato’s that should help identify. I’ll take some pics when I get home of the same locations on the bike and you can compare.

tkamd73 

I really wouldn’t even care, beautiful bike, unique and unreplaceable!
Tim

Tomm Willians

This is her 85’ Ramato, my 87’ looks the same. Maybe these pics help?

Kekec1965

Thanks for the pics Tomm Willians , appreciate the effort. Nice bikes, it must be quite a sight both of you on the ride together 😎 I did look at Ramato model to compare, but lugs and cutouts are different from mine, so not sure what model that could be.

Kekec1965

Thanks tkamd73 I don't really care either, just curious as have not seen similar bike.

unworthy1

if you look very closely at the Columbus decal it says (in Italian) "repainted", very small and faint white print near the bottom of decal. So that weird "marble" paint is not original, ditto all the other decals.
Since whoever painted this was honest enough to note that with the "full disclosure" tubing decal, maybe the rest is legit, too, but doesn't have any other features that clearly indicate Wilier and the Columbus dove on forkcrown is rather "generic".
Still, not a brand most would pick to counterfeit!
Edit: Curious if the OP or some sharp-eyed sleuth can decipher the 2 words in red on both sides of the Dove/Oval on that Columbus sticker. Usually it's where some like "Over---Sized" would appear, but that's not what's on this one. Might provide a clue...

P!N20

NIVA - CROM

EXTRA LEGGERA

Eg; Columbus EL. Whether that's what it is or it's just been added later is up for debate.

unworthy1

Thanks for that info, P!N20!
As you say this would describe a frame made with EL "Nivacrom" steel alloy, but no guarantee the decal is legit re the tubing, but probable that it IS correctly IDing a re-paint.
Also if the sticker below it which calls out a 1990 Campione d'Italia medal is also legit then that aligns with the notion this could be EL since it was launched sometime around 1989 (ish).
One thing that doesn't align is a full tube set of EL would have included a pair of "unicrown" forkblades, which this fork does not use (a better looking fork IMO but might be and slightly heavier than the EL unicrown would have been).

P!N20

My observations:

Finding examples of ~1990 Wiliers isn't an easy task, but this is the closest: https://www.pedalroom.com/bike/wilie...lia-1990-11524

The model is allegedly a Campione d'Italia - no mention if the paint/decals are original or not.

Interestingly the paint on the fork detail matches the OP's (in that it comes down a few inches lower than the fork crown) but the fork itself isn't the same - hard to see if it has a cartouche or not.

The seat stay caps are different and the stay ends at the dropout don't appear to be birds mouth like the OP's. Different brake bridge. The top tube cable guides appear to match the OP's though. Same head badge, too.

So doing a search for other Wilier Campione d'Italia models, this one from 1991 comes up: https://www.catawiki.com/en/l/491259...e-bicycle-1991

Interestingly the fork is Columbus, but the cartouche is different. The brake bridge looks to be the same as the OP's and the birds mouth stay treatment at the dropouts looks to be there. The seat stay caps are similar to the OP's, not that they're really caps, but you know what I mean.

Finally there's this one supposedly a Speciale model, but the image is lo res so hard to determine the finer details: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...eset-205387175

I can't find any other examples of Wilier's built with Columbus EL. I'm thinking that's probably an optimistic decal - I would have thought such tubing would have featured internal top tube cable routing.

In summary; inconclusive. I'm leaning towards it being a Wilier, but I don't know what model. There are similarities and differences between it and other examples, but it seems someone would have gone to a lot of trouble installing the head badge if it wasn't a Wilier.

Kekec1965 is there a serial number anywhere? I'd expect Wilier to have serial numbers on their frames.

Wondering what MauriceMoss makes of it?

jamesdak 

Don't know if it's real or not but that paint job is HOT!

Kekec1965

Many thanks for your investigative work, I knew I could rely on this forum to provide clues about the bike above.

With regards to your conclusion, I would totally agree that this is a genuine Wilier, as far too many similarities between it and examples you have sent links in your post to dismiss it as something else. As mentioned in my OP, this frame was, according to a seller made bespoke for his dad, by a friend working in the Wilier workshop not that far from where I picked it up near Vincenza. There is no serial number unfortunately apart size number on bottom bracket shell - 56.

As per tubing I also have some doubts it is EL, I'll check the seatpost diameter to check on that, it should give some clues I think?. Forks, although genuine Columbus should've had W stamped on them too, but as per one of examples in your links not necessarily so. Would be interesting to hear other opinions, also on the BB shell cutouts that differ from 'normal' Wilier ones.

But it is the paint really that attracted me to the bike in the first place, reminding me of a blue cheese/Gorgonzola pattern

Thanks again and let's see what other experts think too.

smd4

Looks like a very nice bike, even if the tires are too big!

unworthy1

Which leads me to another trivial observation: There's clearly some deep connection between Wilier and Trieste given the inclusion of "Triestina" to almost every frame right after "Wilier", even to the point of sticking the heraldic mark of Trieste (sort of a pike head looking fleur de lys) on current frames' head tubes, etc. yet the shop's located in Bassano del Grappa in Veneto.
A pretty long way from Trieste.
Always been sort of a head-scratcher for me.

Kekec1965

W(Viva) Italia Libera e Redenta – Long live Italy, liberated and redeemed! Trieste was in a limbo state for a while after WW2 (to put in mildly ) and this was Wiliers founders attempt to show partiotism....let's not go into details

Kekec1965

Ha, true, i put the only pair of tyers I had at the time - 28mm Contis, not the prettiest or fastest, but comfortable they are I admit, so left them on until they need a replacement

smd4

Please! Go into details!

Being Italian myself, I never could figure out how the name "Wilier" was in any way Italian!

unworthy1

All I can add is in the example above the "W" (not a letter found often, if at all, in Italian) is shorthand for the 2 "V"s in Viva

P!N20

From Wikipedia:

When Wilier was founded, Trieste was not part of Italy; the name 'Wilier Triestina' reflected a patriotic desire for it to be rejoined.

clubman 

Not an expert on Italy but there was an Austrian/Prussia influence in that area, even in Venice. Perhaps it's Austrian.