jackyharuhiko

Hi, I always heard that Birdy bikes “have to” be modified to make it a good bike. What do you recommend me to upgrade? I have a Birdy 3 Standard, and I upgraded the following so far: Shimano XT M8100 hydraulic brakes, Selle Royale Respiro saddle, MKS FD-7 pedals, Ridea water bottle mount adapter. So far I haven’t touched the drive train - some people say that changing to better wheelset have significant difference, some say that the BB + chain ring + crankset.

Changing both of them can be very costly and the total cost of modification may quickly exceed the bike itself. I would like to hear your opinion on this: what is the number 1 upgrade priority to improve ride quality? How about speed? Given the wheel size I don’t think much can be done for the speed for a folder, (despite that the Birdy is already quite fast at its size) right?

Jipe

What is a "Birdy 3 standard" ?

Is it a Riese & Müller Birdy 3 or a Pacific Cycles Birdy 3 ? What model, what transmission ?

The current Riese & Müller Birdy 3 all have Shimano Deore hydraulic disc brakes. Moving to Shimano XT only bring a small weight reduction, no change in braking performances.

The R&M City Birdy has a bad transmission : Shimano Nexus 8 is not efficient, heavy and has a too small gear inch range.

The two other R&M model, Birdy Rohloff and Birdy Touring are pretty good with their factory components. The only drawback of the Touring are the Sunrace rear hub and cassette that are heavy and proprietary (you cannot mount anything else than a Sunrace cassette on it). But the gear inch range with the 9-32t cassette is excellent.

The Pacific Cycles Birdy come with different transmission that are all short due to their cassettes that all have a 11t smallest cog. The Birdy R20 11SP has a ridiculous 11-28t cassette, too short and too small gear inch range.

Its possible to improve a lot both the wheels and transmission and have huge weight saving with a 11s or 12s transmission.

I changed the wheels for custom build wheels with Kinlin wide rims, Sapim CX-ray spokes, Hubsmith front hub and Tune rear hub and a transmission with a Ethirtheen 9-34 cassette, Shimano Ultegra M8000 derailleur, Shimano SL-RS700 shifter and KMC X11SL Gold chain.

jackyharuhiko

I have a Pacific cycles Birdy thanks. It came with Avid BB7 wire disc brakes. The transmission is Shimano Sora 9 Speed (external 11-32T).
Do you think I should take upgrading the wheel / hub set or the transmission as my first priority?

Jipe

The Avid BB7 single piston have a poor braking power and need frequent re-adjustment, but if I understand well, you already replaced them for Shimano XT hydraulic ?

The drawback of the 11-32 is that the gear inch range is limited and that 52x11 the longest is short.

Upgrading the transmission to have the same wider gear inch range and longer gear inch as the R&M Birdy Touring is expensive because you need to change the rear hub to for instance a hub with a SRAM XDR body to be able to mount a cassette with 9t or 10t smallest cog to have 52x9 or 52x10 and about 360% gear inch instead of 52x11 and only 291%.
You do not need to change the front wheel, you can keep your rim, just re-lace the wheel with another hub and other spokes (spoke length will probably be different with another hub and you can also upgrade the spokes).

Has I already post in the other thread, first hing I would do is change the tires for the Schwalbe Big Apple 50x355.

CEBEP

I have SON dynamo hub on my Brompton and it’s excellent. I wander how do Shutter Precision hub on Riese & Müller Birdy Touring compares? It comes with Supernova front and rear lights I think. How’s the hub resistance with lights off and on? Anyone drawbacks compare to SON?

Thanks

Jipe

I am in the same situation as you, a SON XS new on my Brompton and a Shutter Precision on my Birdy.

The two dynamo hubs are very similar, no noticeable difference when riding, the hub resistance is low. Note that on the factory mounted configuration, the light of the Birdy is always on, there is no switch to put it off (its a Supernova E3 Pure 3 front light without any switch).

About the front light, on my Brompton I have a Son Edelux II with a 3 position switch, On, Off, Auto = a light sensor switch the light On when its dark. This is excellent, especially on the Brompton where the light is very low, impossible to reach the switch when riding, the light sensor is perfect, it put the light on not only at night but also in dark condition, underground riding for instance.

And the Son Edelux II is much brighter than the Supernova with an excellent bright, long distance, uniform beam.

For me, with the continuous technology progress of the LED's, the Supernova E3 Pure 3 is now obsolete, a new M99 dynamo front light has been announced in August 2021 by Supernova but its not available yet (https://supernova-lights.com/products/m99-dy-pro).

CEBEP

Thanks for detailed reply. I also have Edelux II on my Brompton and agree it’s an awesome light. Do you think Edelux II can be installed on Birdy?

CEBEP

Is you Birdy model Riese & Müller Touring? If yes how do you find it compared to Brompton? All + and - will greatly help as I’m thinking to buy one too. Does front suspension on Birdy make big difference in riding comfort? Thanks!

2_i 

I put a lightweight motorcycle handlebar switch on handlebars of nearly every bike, even the one for visitors.

CEBEP

I own 6 speed (-12%) Brompton with 29.1”/2.32m to 88.0”/7.03m range. My understanding is that Riese & Müller Birdy Touring has 2.7m to 7.8m range. Lowest gear seems to be on higher rate compared to Brompton and since in Istanbul we have lot’s of hills I wander if this difference will be seriously noticeable.

Also here are the specs of Riese & Müller Birdy Touring. Being a Brompton owner I don’t understand much in this. How are the specs, anything I need to consider upgrading? When bike is on highest gear derailleur seems to be too close to the floor. Any suggestions here, maybe to change it with shorter one?

Tech data:

Frame colour Grey/Graphite Matt

Headset TH No. 10, semi-integrated

Seatpost JD/Riese & Müller, Alu, 34,9 x 565mm

Seatclamp TranzX, 40,0 mm, QR

Tires Schwalbe Marathon Racer 40-355 Reflex

Tubes Schwalbe SV5

Rims Alex Crostini 1.1, 18"

Front hub Chosen Mount, 32 Loch; Hub dynamo Shutter Precision*

Rear hub Sunrace, 32 Loch

Crankset Driveline, 52T, incl. Hollow Tech bottom bracket

Chain KMC X10 ( 111x )

Cassette Sunrace 10-speed, 9-32

Saddle Selle Royal Shadow

Pedals VP-183

Shifting system Shimano Deore Trekking, 10-speed

Shifter Shimano SLX, 10-speed

Handlebar Satori Horizon, 31,8 mm, 10°, B=540 mm

Stem Comfort 10°*; Sport 21°*

Grips Ergon ergonomic

Brakes Shimano Deore, disc brake

Front light Supernova E3 Pure 3S*

Tail light Supernova E3 E-Bike Tail Light 2*

Mudguards SKS Birdy

Luggage rack Riese & Müller*

Rubber Bibia*

Bell Billy

Kickstand Minoura for Birdy

Jipe

First my Brompton that was a S type superlight 6 speed is highly upgraded, most components have been upgraded including the transmission which is now a 14s Rohloff hub.

For the Birdy, I ave two Birdy, A Pacific Cycles Titanium Birdy and a R&M Touring Birdy with 21degree sport stem, hub dynamo+Supernova lights and rear folding rack. Both have a derailleur transmission.

Even with this transmission, the Birdy is a much more efficient bike, less effort and higher speed. This higher efficiency comes from the frame and from the suspension that allow to ride faster on bad roads.

The front suspension is a huge difference with the Brompton, combined with the Big Apple 50mm wide tires the ride is very fast and comfortable. The rear suspension is better than on the Brompton but the difference isn't that big.

About the gear inch range, the Birdy Touring with its 9-32 cassette has a wider gear inch range (356%) than the Brompton 6 speed (306%) but much less than the Rohloff (526%, which is also available on the Birdy).

The R&M folding rear rack for the Birdy (it automatically folds when the rear swing arm is folded) is fabulous, it allow to carry full size rear pannier of Vaude or Ortlieb, something impossible with the Brompton.

I made some upgrade of my Birdy Touring: I added a Brompton front block adapter from H&H to be able to use Brompton front bags. I have now the choice between the front bag, the rear pannier or both simultaneously.

I change the Marathon Racer tires that I do not like for wider 50x355 Schwalbe Big Apple.

I changed the 52t front chainring for a 50t Garbaruk narrow-wide.

The only drawback of the Birdy is that it is slightly bigger folded than the Brompton. Once used to, the folding is as fast as for the Brompton.

One more thing about the front dynamo hub: the Birdy front hub has a standard 100mm spacing but its disc mounting is specific, on the right side and at a bigger distance from the dropout (closer to the bug center) than a standard disc with as consequence that there is only one type of hub dynamo that fits, the special SP8 for Birdy (there was a special SON XS for Birdy disc but its now discontinued).

jackyharuhiko

Hi Jipe, great post once again about the Birdy. I changed my Pacific Cycles Birdy’s tyres to the Schwalbe Kojak 18 x 1.25, together with the new BB and crank set the riding experience is so much better now. I’m about to change to a new wheel set with hubsmith ceramic bearings hub (specific model for Birdy so there won’t be any problem with the front hub). But for the folding size I’m keeping the 355 18 inch size.

These should conclude my upgrades to the Birdy once and for all.

And yes, the Birdy is much faster than a Brompton.

CEBEP

Never gonna happen.

CEBEP

Thanks for detailed reply Jipe

I heard a lot of positive for Rohloff hubs. Even not considering the price it would still be an overkill for me as I don’t do touring and don’t need this wide gearing range.

The only thing I’ll need to check would be the highest gear as it’s a little longer than what I have on my Brompton. However considering better rolling resistance it might be just fine. If not I may then upgrade the chainring.

did you feel a need for quick release pedals on Birdy?

I checked Schwalbe website and it looks like marathon racer and big apple have same protection level. As you’ve mentioned Big apples ride better, but what was your experience with punctures on both?

I assume Marathon Pluses are not available for this size so nor continentals.

Thanks!

Jipe

With the way the Birdy folds, removable pedals aren't needed on the Birdy.

My experience with the Big Apple is excellent, As you when seeing the puncture protection rating of the Big Apple, I was a little afraid about puncture, but in practice its much better than the Marathon Racer, I didn't had any flat with the Big Apple even with riding on trails with them. There are Marathon in the Birdy wheel size, I never tried them they are narrower than the Big Apple.

Actually, due to several experiences, I do not fully trust the rating of Schwalbe, I had for instance (in another wheel size), the previous Marathon Almotion OneStar rated 6 for puncture protection and riding the same places as with the Big Apple, I had two flats in a short time.

Te reason why a moved to a 50t chainring is that I also felt the highest slightly too high and it actually become higher with the Big Apple that are wider and higher than the Racer giving a bigger overall wheel diameter.

CEBEP

Thanks Jipe

I assume Big Appes will clear fenders on R&M Touring Birdy just fine? Does the inner tube have to change?

CEBEP

As I’m reading the thread backwards came across this message. If you happen to carry heavy loads on the carrier block bolted directly to the frame, I’d strongly recommend to use Brompton original plastic carrier block. Unlike OEM aluminum carrier blocks which have very narrow contact surface to the frame, Brompton original carriers block wraps the frame around which adds to the sideways rigidity to the assembly and protects against lateral forces.

Carrying heavy loads on OEM aluminum carrier block with heavy side movements can rip the bolts from the frame, which is the last thing anyone would want, specially on a titanium frame.

2_i 

From a quick check, that 'slight' increase in size turns flying with the bike from what is practically a non-event to a major event. The 'slight' increase stays slight for ground transportation, though, I presume.

Jipe

I have put my Brompton and Ti Birdy side by side and the difference is small Its much smaller than the topical center folded 20" Dahon.

For airline transportation, anyway, a folded Brompton is too big, it doesn't fit into the airline limit.

jackyharuhiko

Here it is. After upgrading to the carbon wheelset.

CEBEP

Hi Jipe , will appreciate your reply.
Thanks.

2_i 

Say what?! It is right at the limit while in a bag. I fly with it on a regular basis just like hundreds of other people do. Commonly it is my main means of transportation at the places I fly to and I have done presumably more miles there than around home. The two actions in taking off is to toss it with one hand into a bag, zip the bag and head out of the door, about just as complicated as riding out. That's certainly one place where the 'slight' difference comes in.

Jipe

Yes, big Apple are compatible with the original Birdy fenders, the Birdy Rohloff is factory equipped with Big Apple. For the Birdy Touring, you have to remove two plastic washers mounted between the fender and the fork (these washers aren't mounted on the Birdy Rohloff).

Nice carbon wheelset !

For the airline size, no the folded Brompton doesn't fit into the allowed size but many airlines do not care. I have for instance transported my Brompton in the Radical Design Chubby trailer without any problem while this trailer is too big. The Birdy also fits in this trailer.

Schwinnsta

I don't think this is an issue or if it is, it is not major. On most of the commercial mounts you the blocks mounting to alloy, They may not hold the screws as the Brompton which is steel. If you look at the actual mounting "blocks" themselves, the alloy ones have sides that fit over and around the alloy block they mount on. The Brompton OEM ones do have a larger area and that will factor in for vertical loading, but may tend to rotate for side loading. Also, loads on the sides are small unless you crash. I have not heard of problems with the alloy blocks, though looking Aceofix they seem real cheap looking. Most of the mounts used to add a block, resist side rotation by friction since they are not brazed on. Under heavy side loads, they will more likely rotate.

2_i 

I am not sure what the point is in perpetuating this falsehood. The dimensions of the standard Brompton are 23"x22.2"x10.6" yielding the linear dimension of 23+22.2+10.6=55.8" well under the standard airline limit of 62", leaving room for walls of a container, rack and any accessories. Yes the Radical Design Chubby blows the airline limit pointlessly. The airline agents may let it through, but I returned mine, not wanting to take the risk. As to Birdy, most people that comment online appear to take it apart for flights. I did it for Bike Friday and Dahon and pretty much had enough - with this much work I could well take a regular bike along.