polymorphself 

Over the years I've found most here to not be purists unless it's a very specific bike. I'm also in that boat. I don't so much like this stuff because it's old (although that's part of it), but more so due to the construction and aesthetics. Both of which can be found aplenty in modern reproductions. In fact, I'm more interested in the modern constructeurs (Weigle, Chapman etc) than I am in vintage frames, although I love both. If it's still and lugged with traditional geometry I'm happy.

tkamd73 

I’ve got more vintage bikes then I know what to do with, don’t think I’ll be needing another in my lifetime, so if true which I doubt, pretty much a moot point. Ben’s Cyclery and Yellow Jersey ain’t going anywhere, so I’m good.
Tim

juvela

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...just like the members of this forum...


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1989Pre 

I understand your appreciation of custom, contemporary builders of steel frames. If I had one of those, I would maybe be giving V.O. and some other resto-mod manufacturers a look. I made sure I said "somewhat" of a purist, because even on my '48, I have a brand-new Carradice tool bag. The Grubb has a contemporary Brave Classics bag, and on the Moser, I have modern pedals and contemporary ITM handlebars and threadless stem. I have modern saddles on both the Moser and Technium. I even have a wired computer on the Technium! Maybe I am more eclectic than I give myself credit for.

IcySwan1 

uprightbent,

” Lotsa blackwalls at vintage rides and shows.”

I kind of backed into C&V when I acquired a Torelli. It had Vredenstein tires that were orange and had a tan side . They blew the first time I pumped them up and I replaced them with what I could get - all black Specialized Roubaix. What do you suggest would be a good tire for this bike? It is orange. I agree a tan sidewall would look nice. The Conti GP 5K comes with “cream” sidewall and Veloflex has a nice tan sidewall tire. What would you suggest?

Thanks.

Mike

merziac

You must be joking, as long as I'm still upright, whatever I'm riding will be C+V propelled at least.

The pseudo repro hack market will and is following the money as they should and must to survive and it ain't all bad but can be pricey.

There are probably at least 200 builders in the US alone that will be happy to build you a frame identical to what you could get 50-75 years ago only better with modern tech backstopping decades old tradition.

You just have to make the leap, I did and it is fantastic, worth every damn cent of which there were a you know what load.



Oh look, there's a VO Grand Cru stem, shiney chrome steel.

Chombi1 

Funny thing is, even most of the top of the line stuff back then is looking really rudimentary compared to even the cheap modern stuff.......
Just look at the much vaunted Simplex SLJ6600 RD and compare it to a mid line Shimano derailleur from even just the mid 90's. The Simplex looks like a clunky caveman's club compared to the newer Shimanos.... so I would not be surprised if the interest on the real C&V stuff just starts fading away with the passing of our generation.
It's like maybe how an older generation still looks up to the old flat head Ford engines which to some of us might just similar to an old boat anchor.
It must really take a big leap af faith for companies like VO to invest in making some of their older style components, hoping for enough C&Vers of our ilk to accept and buy them.

steelbikeguy

fwiw, my unsolicited opinion: the Veloflex Corsa EVO (formerly called the Master). A wonderful tire, although this also means not as durable as a tire less oriented towards speed. Looks great too. The 25mm size ends up about 23mm on Mavic MA-2 rims. The 23mm version is closer to 21 on the MA-2. I think that sizing nowadays assumes wider modern rims.



Steve in Peoria

IcySwan1 

Steve, that tire looks perfect. Thanks.

Mike

Bogester 

Agree. We are a niche of a niche of a niche. There’s really not another website or magazine out there out there, other than this one, that I have any interest in anymore. I have zero interest in anything BQ is pushing these days. I subscribe but after a quick scan it sits on the side table. Riv jumped the shark a decade ago for me…love the old stuff…I own two of them! We have a pretty strong vintage community in Seattle but, besides the group that shows up at Bob Freeman’s every summer I don’t think there’s much interest. I tried to sell a few bikes/frames locally this past summer and was met with silence. I ended up donating them. I’m not getting rid of my Hetchins or Paramounts though…I’m riding those!

icemilkcoffee 

I just checked- both Rene Herse and Velo Orange are still selling French bottom brackets. Yellow Jersey still selling cheap Tubulars, NOS rims, NOS bar tape, wool jerseys, toe straps, custom quill seat posts, etc, etc... Brooks still making their saddles, Velocal still reproducing decals, Nitto still making quill stems and classic handlebars, and most importantly this C&V forum still hopping with activity. I think C&V is doing perfectly fine for a long while to come.

RustyJames 

I could write a treatise on this but companies need to adapt or die. Carbon fiber, disc brakes and electronic shifting are insanely good AND people are willing to pay for them. Selling bikes with this stuff sounds like a good business decision to me.

Lattz

Whenever such questions come up, "is C&V dying?" there are a few thing might be worthy for consideration, might be right, might be wrong...
1., as stated above "which C&V? Leave the classic part, think about the vintage. Many here are dying for the 70s-80's lugged steel... when these were brand new, they represented the pinnacle of what those companies or legendary individuals - and with some exceptions the whole bike industry - were able to achieve. I'm sure there were people, who e.g. didn't like the lightweight bikes of the era, saying either the 40's were nicer or sturdier... does it mean the appreciation is fully gone for those? No. Should a company keep doing what it did when it became "famous?" No, unless we hate them and would like to see them in the long list of 'who filed for bankrutpcy this week'.
With bikes, cars, guitars whatevers, we should not forget, that they were made to be the "best and most modern one" and it is just plain luck it meets our taste 40-50-xx years later. Imagine just to name a few if Cinelli didn't make the Laser, or Colnago the Master because of some gaspipe aficionados cultivating the rod operated brakes and massive tubes.

2., In such talks we often mix up and underestimate "what do today's kids want". We were also not born die hard CV fans. For many, it is exactly the need for the "most modern top of the line" from the childhood.... it just became C&V as we grew up.
We cannot blame the new gen kids, to want the newest tech today, and be not interested in the already 50 years old one. Actually today it is a miracle, if someone still want to beat any pedals, not speaking 50 years old ones. But the few who catches the bug with cycling itself, might want to dig back and develop, if that means 90's by then, or 80s-70s good and actually doesn't matter. Maybe worth a word, that 2000 was 22 years ago, but as we think, that C&V "is all steel and lugs" for them it might be different. I am sure there were quite a few bikes in 2000 which were instant classics.

I guess the whole question is just as difficult as understanding, that for some kids, Episode 1 with Jar Jar Binks is "THE Star Wars", and they might think of the originals as "yes, there were nice SW films before", and "plenty of crap is on Netflix these days" for the new ones.

3, slowly "our eyes" are adjusting as well, and we become more forgiving with time. Year maybe not Monday Cambio Corsa, Tuesday Di2, but I clearly how my taste for bikes, cars, motorbikes and Vespas change. I'm and 80's kid, for me things from 80' had no vintage value until maybe I hit 30. The best Vespa I had was a year younger then me. The 2 rotten pile of junks I still refer to as "my 2 Vespas" are from 65 and 71. When I got rod of the 84'er I thought, "oh, finally, as good as it was, it cant be good if its even younger then me. Today I clearly see it as the last classic, and even started to feel sorry for the ones from the 90's, what would have been straightforward heresy 10 years ago. Cars, bikes the same.

4., Market trends change. We might see less and less parts - although I also question this - especially because the CV "thing" is not over yet. Plenty of stuff will stuck by collectors or shops who stocked up in the past decades for considerably big momo during the last wave of hype for these, and they will not just throw them away for peanuts even if the trend would move massively to later decades, rendering these less interesting market price-wise.

5., As we are heading forward on the past 90's timeline, and looking at what each industry produced, we should give credits and a big hats off to anybody being not only interested but devoted to care and repair those things, like we do to CV bikes today. Lots of tech involved, most of them is not something you can cook up in your garage. Planned obsolescence is also not the friend of the future CV guy. These alone might turn people to even earlier bikes/collectibles, or discourage them for good.

But the occasional lack of interest for a certain age window on these things is on one hand always painful, on the other it is always the sweet spot, you have to keep your eyes peeled, since these times might bring the bargains.

Lattz

xiaoman1 

Quote:

Originally Posted by xiaoman1

I fear that all good things will come to an end (evolve).....at least shift in terms of desirability. Witness how the car hobby has changed over the years.....shifting from 40 Fords with flat-heads to Tri-Fives and on to Camaro's/Mustangs (name you favorite) and to now the Euro/Asian brands.
There will alway be a 'Vintage" market but IMO, It will steadily decrease and be redefined as a new/younger generation enters the market......"Vintage" will also be further operationalized.
Best, Ben

I should have qualified my remarks a bit more and asked a question.........What defines a vintage bike, is it before a certain date or the age of the relic? In 50 years, a lot of the CF bikes will qualify as vintage, if they are still around.....wood rims will be relegated to that bygone era of the covered wagon, folks will lament the loss of the good old days, when "Carbon was a Bargain".
Best, Ben

RustyJames 

Thanks Lattz for basically writing my treatise!

tcs

Mercian. Pinned lugs, open hearth brazed.

JohnDThompson 

If mechanics in Cuba can keep 1950s American automobiles running on the road, with no spare parts except what you can scavenge from other vehicles (ok, so some of them may have Volga drivetrains, but they're still functional), I suspect we'll be able to keep our vintage bicycles functional and on the road for the indefinite future.

PilotFishBob 

mschwett 

looks like an artfully designed, aesthetically distinct collaboration with a modern firm that has a similar mindset but uses modern materials. OPEN make great bikes. i bet this frame will be a blast to ride. it's hardly like RH is slapping their logo on a walmart bike or a RAD or even a trek/specialized/giant/cannondale.

Soody

I reckon there are a rising number of people my age (20s-30s) who are interested in classic bikes (80s/90s) for a number of very good reasons
The only major recent blow was the discontinuation of the excellent and cheap UN55 and it's replacement with a 'scronchy out of the box' tourney unit, other than that I think most bases are covered for both inexpensive good parts and boutique ones.
7 speed cassettes being limited to 11-28 and 12-32 is perfectly fine as those or wider are the gear ratios everyone should ride
Grizzled old timers are as always extremely friendly and helpful.

I don't understand the disparaging of mountain-ish bikes and grocery getters. The original ethos of a road race bike was to be as svelte and fast as possible. Isn't the carrier of that torch a modern road bike and current roadies?
And why are vintage bikes dependent on faux-vintage new frames being produced? I imagine the next generation will view any road bike with rim brakes as classic.

Darth Lefty 

Aside, but…
Those kids are in their thirties.

My 8yo says live action Star Wars is “the old kind of Star Wars for grownups.” That one hurt.

GL had a reason to incorporate characters like C-3PO and Ewoks and Jar Jar. It’s what gives the movies broad appeal. Otherwise it’s just a sarcastic gore fest and there are plenty of Paul Verhoven movies if that’s what you want.

What gives cycling broad appeal? Anyone can do it. What brings in more anyones? In 1972 that was a ten speed. They were fast. It was a revelation. But then BMX was more fun and mountain bikes were easier to ride. Do rust prone bikes with hard tires, uncomfortable drop bars and clunky shifters provide broad appeal today? No. Today it’s e bikes…

Andrew_G

Steve:

How difficult (easy?) is it to install Veloflex Corsa EVO tires on to your Mavic MA2 rims?

Andrew G.

Andrew_G

Bogester:


I subscribed to Vintage Bicycle Quarterly when it was new. I kept going when it became Bicycle Quarterly, but Jan increasingly moved away from the vintage and randonneuring articles which I found interesting. When Jan started chasing the all-road marketplace, I let my subscription lapse. My last BQ issue was Summer 2020.


Andrew_G

RiddleOfSteel

A lot of great responses and discussions! @Lattz YOU DA MAN.

As an industrial designer by trade (automotive designer, essentially, by education), I work to remember and cherish favorite cars (in this case) of the past while evaluating current and upcoming designs in their context. I do the same with bikes. I refuse to be or become the old man yelling at clouds, for I can do that just fine with decades left before traditional retirement. I am grateful for the knowledge I have regarding bikes, and the people that kept the cycling flame alive and growing at critical points prior to today's self-sufficient and very heartily bonfire.

I am grateful for friends and trends (lol, rhymed..) that push and challenge my ethos and premises with regard to vintage. The challenge is further put to the test since I require very large (65-66cm, traditionally) frames to fit myself comfortably and look decent while doing so. So far, vintage is more than sufficient and I enjoy the hunt to find magical tubes arranged as scaffolding that accepts 700C wheels. Old war horse Paramounts, new OS Paramounts, vintage Treks, big-tube Cannondales. I have, very thankfully, found my gems and enjoy the hunt to find more. Modern indexed-yet-silver componentry as well. It's out there and I do like scooping it up for good deals. You should also see just how devastatingly good Dura-Ace 9000 looks on a gloss black OS Paramount. Turn out the dang lights, people, the party is OVER. (thankfully, she rides every bit as good as she looks--I'm not letting her go).

I am on the slow burn to create something ultra-niche, which combines great elements of bikes past and present--Trek 720 length, elegance, and feel; Rivendell Rick Dorkulous chain stay length; and carbon for frame material, to create a sort of pre-war Elgin-type bicycle with curves and swoops and effervescent beauty (sans seat tube just like before!), just with today's technology. The business case for this is complete rubbish. But as a concept and one-off, I believe it has plenty of merit. I'd love to see Rene Herse etc take on the long wheelbase touring bike market in carbon as they are more than free from UCI regulations and could build an incredibly capable and unique frame. Many are CX/gravel/MTB type frames, and the world needs more exploration in wheelbase like Rivendells. Couldn't hurt, IMO.

merziac

Jan has made several critical pivots recently.

BQ/Compass to BQ/Rene Herse.

BQ/Rene Herse to gravel tire supplier/sponsor to the stars.

Winning gravel tire supplier/sponsor to the stars.

He will follow this and the money wherever it can and will take him.

Ultimate, top of the line carbon frames are likely just the beginning.