Fizzer

Hey folks,
I can't believe I haven't come across these forums before. Hopefully this is the right place for some old bike advice.

I've been asked by a friend to help recommission her late father in laws old Frejus as a Christmas surprise for her husband.

She dropped it round yesterday and its just gorgeous. It's in really good condition.

I can't link to the photo album just yet as I'm too new. Will post it when I can.

Finish wise, there's not much to do, paint and chrome is very good and just needs a gentle clean and polish.

Serial number is 02087

Wheel and steering bearings are perfect.

The chain looks a little worn but not too bad (take a look at the video) I would take advice on this. It does at least need a clean.

The rear mech is very clogged up. I have access to an ultrasonic bath. Is this a good idea or too aggressive? Should I stick to cleaning products and a nylon brush?

Tubular tyres are perished and the glue is brittle and dry. I've seen some glue remover (muc off, soudal), does anyone have a recommendation?

Tyres wise, there are a lot of modern choices, I'm not sure this will get ridden much so I think that cost and vintage appearance are a priority. Any recommendations? (in the UK)

That's it for now, other than if anyone has any thoughts on model or age. It would be nice to find a little more info about it.

Thanks in advance

Andy

3alarmer 

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...I have cleaned literally hundreds of rear derailleurs in an ultrasonic. It works fine, but you'll need to re-lubricate the pivot points and take off the outer cage plate and the pulley wheels to do a good job. If it's a Campagnolo New Record, when you get all the crud off, the pulley wheels are probably cracked. This is because of shrinkage of the plastic they used, not a result of using the ultrasonic. You can still use them that way, but most people replace the wheels with something newer that works.

3alarmer 

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...The chrome on this one got painted, somewhere along the way to me.





...I have literally no idea what the serial numbers on these indicate. This one is from the mid 1960's.

WGB 

If you have an outdoor place to set the wheels, I have made a tray of foil and added an inch of gas. We're talking maybe a cup in total so not a major amount but it clears old glue.

I set the wheels upright in that for a half hour then turn and soak the next bit and so on. Just try not to cover any decals as they will be destroyed.

3alarmer 

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...and I always replace chains as a matter of routine. I consider them one of the wear items, like tyres, cogs, and brake blocks

Fizzer

Thanks for the info, I'll strip that mech (simplex) and get it cleaned up. The paint on this thing is all original and simply gorgeous. Wish I could post pics!

Fizzer

The other interesting thing is the gear ratios, they are so close, there's not much difference between them

juvela

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on your member page here at the forum there is a link on the right margin where you can create a "member album"

there is no minimum post requirement to do this

once your album is created readers can visit your member page and place the images into the discussion thread

welcome to the forum!


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Classtime 

• If the glue is brittle, I’ve had the best luck chipping and scraping it off with a dull flat screw driver.
• Veloflex or Vittoria for tires and use glue not tape.
• if after the ultrasonic cleaning, the chain and cog set look better, they may be fine—especially if it won’t be ridden much.
• with the paint and chrome in such good condition, I suspect the cables and housings will be fine.
  
• looking forward to pics.

Fizzer

Thanks for your advice folks, I've uploaded some pics in my profile. Although I realised I too a whole bunch of close ups and none of the entire bike. Oops...

juvela

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merziac

Oh my........



Strongly encourage you to proceed with extreme caution. This should be preserved with the utmost care.

Welcome aboard, glad you found us, you're obviously in the right place.

Elbow grease, mild soap, soft cloths and a careful hand will win the day here.

Anything that you really have to get after will need to be removed or isolated to work on.

This is fantastic and wonderful.

juvela

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juvela

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the blue washer with the three-pointed star on the cycle's Simplex Competition front gear mech is a helpful dating aid

it was only employed 1959-1960-1961

the cycle's Simplex Prestige model 636AR rear gear mech had not as yet launched at this time so it is likely to be the replacement of an earlier model Simplex rear gear mech which was there originally

final year for model 636AR was 1968

cycle's wheels and saddle pillar are much later than its birthday

for the time being you can probably say it is approximately 1960

the machine's chainset is the Zeus Competition model from Spain
it was discontinued in 1971 but do not know a launch year for it
the machine's original chainset may have been cottered steel and this set represents a replacement

the manufacturer of the cycle, Emilio Bozzi, tended to favour chainsets from the Way-Assauto firm although they used other makers as well



you mentioned the narrow gearing
the smallest inner chainwheel made to fit this set is 43T

other readers far more knowledgeable shall be along shortly to give you more and better information regarding the cycle

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FrejusFlyer

Wow, what a beauty! From the head tube badge and the serial number, I'd guess this is an early 50's bike with more modern bits added here and there. Because of the oval on the top of the seat tube, this is one of the higher line models. Does it have Campagnolo dropouts? If so, it's probably the top-of-the-line Super Corsa. Great bike!

3alarmer 

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...FWIW, there's a lot of information on Frejus bikes scattered around on various sites on the internet.

Here is a link to the Classic Rendezvous Frejus serial number data base. You can see why I have no idea what these numbers might indicate.
The best explanation I've seen is probably the one on the Condorino website, here. But his focus is mainly on Legnano. Also look here.

Condensed version of the above: the serial numbers on these are pretty confusing.

thinktubes 

What a great bike! You friend’s husband chose well…

FrejusFlyer

After every major victory, they would change the dates on the badge. This badge doesn't have the 1951 TDF win yet, so this bike is a 1949,1950 or '51.
Here's a badge after the '51 TDF win:

Kabuki12

Amazing condition given the age of the bike. Merziac and others are correct , I would use gentle , non detergent soap to clean. When I had a classic car I always washed it with baby shampoo. It cleans with no damage to sensitive paint . Just a few drops and Luke warm damp wash cloth. There are a lot of products that are on the market for preserving the finish on older paint, although the paint on that bike looks very nice . Probably one of the easiest restorations I’ve seen here because it looks so good already.

3alarmer 

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...a lot of the components on your bicycle have been updated/swapped out with more modern stuff. The crank, wheels, brakes are certainly newer than the frame. I too, think the rear derailllleur is an update, but it is pretty close to what was available a little later than the frame construction. My guess is that it underwent a major restoration at least once at the hands of its former rider. You can look on Velobase to get an idea of what was availble at the time the frame was made. Here is a link to the brakes that are currently on there.

This sort of frees you up in your own restoration of this bike, because a lot of that stuff is not original. Once the chrome starts to fail on one of those Simplex rear derailleurs, it's hard to make them look good again. There are plenty of them in the used parts stream that look remarkably similar to that one, because they made then and sold them on all kinds of bicycles, for a very long time. If it were me, I would probably just replace that one with something shinier, if you are stuck using Simplex because of the rear dropout on the frame. If it's a Campagnolo dropout, with a stop for one, the period correct go to would probably be a Gran Sport. But it looks like it was set up for Simplex, and it would be a shame to lose the front changer.

Somebody just started up this whole thread on Simplex, with lots of pictures from stuff currently in service : https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...omponants.html

Not sure I'd try to search out a period correct crank, because that's a lot of work and can get expensive. The one you have on there should work fine. It's hard (not impossible, but hard) to set up one of those Simplex suicide lever fronts to handle much of a jump in front chainrings. This bicycle has pretty typical gearing for the period. Bikes were steel then, and so were bicyclists. You run into a hill, you stand up and mash the pedals.

Pcampeau

I really don’t know if we’re going to be able to put an accurate date on this frame. While this bike is certainly beautiful, it’s been repainted and stocked with parts from various years. Some of the transfers are vinyl. Look at the TA bottle cage, it’s not strapped to the frame with metal straps but bolted into braze ons. For all we know none of this stuff is original including the head badge. I like this bike a lot and I love seeing it here, these are interesting parts and the build is well thought out. I don’t mean this as any kind of criticism and I’m no expert. Many people here certainly know better than I do. Whatever year it’s from this a nice find. I’d still love to see a pic of the entire bike and maybe a pic of the dropouts, both front and back.

merziac

You may be right about some of it but IMO nobody would retain the rear shifter and FD/shifter if not original, the rest are obviously mostly well thought out upgrades and likely not the first round of them. The HB matches the shifters and would be very hard to track down on its own being as old as it is.

Most of these have poor paint by now so the repaint may be the best part of this, especially if it was done long ago and the braze ons really don't hurt at this point.

Agree on more, better full on pics.

iab

I owned 04146 a while back. I was fairly confident that it is from 1948. Date on stem and BB spindle. I would assume 02087 is similar, 1947/48. I don't have much to add other than the frame was made in Torino. After Bozzi bought Frejus in 1945(?), he did not move production to Milano until the early 1950s,

smontanaro 

Dale Brown has a Frejus serial number registry on the Classic Rendezvous website:
​​​​Frejus serial number chart

There aren't many earlier than the early 50s. I'd go with iab's estimate of late 40s. That Delrin Simplex rear derailleur is way too new for the bike, but if that's how the FIL outfitted it, then it's correct for the purpose. It likely would have had a Simplex Tour de France or similar pull chain derailleur.

1989Pre 

I'd just like to note that the 6-speed freewheel is in accordance with the down-tube water bottle cage bosses.