piefall

Hi folks. I’ve been riding my KHS Turbo from late 1980s on and off for about 8 years. The frame is just too tall for me at 62cm. While the bike has a complete original Shimano 600 Arabesque group set, Ive realized that the only thing I like is the frame geometry and material. So, I ended up buying new old stock 58.5 cm Champion No.2 frame with the original intent of swapping all the components from the old KHS bike...

EDIT: here are the photos finally -
(photo) Champion No 2. unbranded fork
(photo) Champion No 2. unbranded frame and fork in sun light
(photo) Champion No 2. unbranded frame and fork - drive side
(photo) Frame with temporarily fitted fork and 700c wheelset
(photo) Rear brake mount with 700c slid into drop outs.
(photo) Front brake mount with 700c slid into dropouts




However, I also have a spare 700c wheel set laying around and the mechanic at the LBS suggested a modern build. I really wanted to upgrade brakes to ergo/ aero levers and perhaps inexpensive Tektro R539 calipers. Need to run this by the collective for touring bike build:
- use spare Mavic aluminum 700c CXP 21 wheel set that already has hubs with quick release skewers. I don’t mind keeping old 27 1-1/4 wheels but not sure about free hubs availability with 8-9 sprockets
- Buy Tektro R539 brake calipers
- Buy 9 speed cassette (rear dropouts are 130mm)
- Not sure about brifters vs downtube indexed rear shifter with a stand alone Tektro RL 340 brake lever set - see below. My primary bike is a single speed. I typically shift once per ride on my vintage KHS depending on how chill or demanding I want
- Does it make sense to sell old group set together and just buy new crank set and front derailleur?
- LBS has a spare downtube indexed shifter for 9 speeds and potentially rear derailleur, they suggest that I’d buy a 9 speed cassette. The frame would take clamp on shifters and I don’t know how you’d rout cables if I went for brifters instead.
- And most importantly, new frame details:
— Rear drop outs measure 130mm
— Fork threaded 1” x 24 tpi
​​​​​​— Fits quill stem of 22.2mmm
— Crown cone seat is 27mm
— BB is 1.37” x 24 tpi

- Will sell KHS Turbo 1983(?)
— Shimano 600 Arabesque group set including original free hub and crank set
— CroMo double butted frame set
— Original Araya Aluminum 27 x 1” wheel set

Appreciate your suggestions in advance.

lasauge 

It's tough to know what to recommend without knowing more about what you want to end up with as there are huge range of options available to you... First, if you want to go for brifters that's easily done, you just need a clamp on cable stop. Second, I'd definitely convert to 700c wheels as this gives you lots more flexibility in your choice of wheels and tires. Third, once you've decided whether having brifters are a priority, I'd think about what kind of gearing you want to have (is this going to be a classic road bike? a do-everything bike? loaded touring?) and then once you've decided on that select the drivetrain components to suit that and to match your choice of shifters.

ryansu

There is a whole thread on building a vintage frame up with modern parts here you might find it useful

icemilkcoffee 

- it makes sense to buy an entire 9 speed groupset and put it on the frame, instead of piecemeal parts.
- you can replace the downtube shifter mounts with a clamp on cable stop:

These were originally meant for bar-end shifters.
- why the obsession with Tektro brakes? The last set I had on my Giant Avail had no centering mechanism- it was constantly dragging on the rim. And the setscrew was garbage- it slipped on the left arm instead of positively stopping against it. Just get whatever Shimano brakes come with your 9 speed groupset.

ltokuno

If the new frame has braze-ons for down tube shifters then a pair of these will allow you to route the derailleur cabling. They have a square socket thing that fits with the square braze-ons. These will work with some clamps too, if they have the square bits to them. Also allows a bit of cable adjustment if needed.



Sheesh looking at that picture tells me it's time to clean that bike. lol

piefall

Thank you for reply, lasauge. I will go for a classic road bike for my workouts: 17-20 miles 2-3 times a week. I do have a bargain Kilo WT that will serve as a commuter. Appreciate the clamp on cable stop idea. I don't typically hunt for a perfect gear as there are not as many hills in Eastern MA.

Thanks for the heads up, ryansu. Awesome builds indeed!

Tektro obsession is pretty much due to my ignorance ;-) I am pretty inexperienced about bike components. Have them on my budget Mercier Kilo WT and dual pivot mechanism is way better compared to KHS single pivot Shimano 600 Arabesque. I can't ever get them centered right and pretty much guarantee to see one of the pads skewed to one of the rim sides.

Itokuno, my new frame has no braze ons, so I will have to use clamp on cable stop or just 9 speed downtube shifter.

piefall

Okay, a follow up then. I will try to fit the build under $600 budget. So far:
- Frame + shipping = $170
- Seat + seat post = $0
- Stem / quill = $0
- Drop bar = $0
- Wheel set = $0
- Will most likely end up using LBS = $200
- What 8 or 9 speed group set should I go for under $200? Quality used is preferred to cheap new stuff. Seeing Shimano 105 5500 and TIAGRA 4500 3x9 fitting this budget. Would prefer brifters vs downtube...

icemilkcoffee 

9 speed is good but I kind of prefer 10 speed myself because the Hollowtech II crankset is inherently a more stiff, durable and easily serviceable. There are lots of interchange/mix and match possibilities, and you can still get new parts like chain rings or brifter hoods for the 10 speed groups. Also you have the option of running compact cranksets (110mm bcd cranksets) in the 10 speed groups. The 9 speed groups, as far as I know, never came with compact cranksets.

In any event, budget for an extra $150-$200 for expendables, knick knacks, odds and ends and this and that. Think of this as a fun project, not a money saving thing.

piefall

Yep, I figured as much as ;-) I’m pretty open to various speed group sets. Will not discriminate against 10-11 either. Appreciate the suggestion.

Hey, if I to believe the seller, this frame was never equipped. Was sold as new old stock. Serial is partial and looks like B or P or D 4151473. I think time period wise it's late 80s early 90s and could have been either 27 or 700. No braze ons for front derailleur, nor for cables. Rear drop outs are spaced to 130mm, so it can take large cassettes.

piefall

Just slid the Mavic CXP 21 wheels just to check fitting. Wew, perfect stand over height for my 32" inseam. Once I get to 10 posts, I will share some glam shots. Looks like mid caliper reach brakes will work. Front and rear hubs on the wheel set labeled Shimano 105. Will check what the older gen Tiagra or 105 (5000?) group sets are going for on ebay.

(photo) Frame with temporarily fitted fork and 700c wheelset
(photo) Rear brake mount with 700c slid into drop outs.
(photo) Front brake mount with 700c slid into dropouts

ryansu

You will save a lot by doing it yourself, lots of videos out there and in my experience buidling up with a a frame and new parts is easier than a tear down clean up and refurb YMMV. Take it slow, expect some mistakes, ask questions find a friend with bike tools

piefall

Yeah, I cancelled the bike shop visit as I had that feeling of me being robbed of fun . I've been building my own PCs for over 20 years, won't buy off the shelf.
Love doing research and picking the right components. I will clean up KHS this weekend, take sharp photos and will see if it sells $250+ on CL. If not, I will break it apart and sell. eBay is strong with this one.

Went on 18 mile ride today on my single speed and there is a good 7-8 mile stretch with a few degrees incline plus the head wind... boy, did I wish for a good geared bike.
Cheers.

piefall

As I look at this frame, it inspires a single speed build as it is so clean and void of any braze ons... What folks recommend for bottom brackets? Bottom bracket thread is 1.370 x 24tpi-English and shell is 68mm.

clubman 

One more post an you can upload pics for inspiration.

mstateglfr 

Was the frame purchased off ebay from someone in the north Chicago suburbs? Some of that sellers frames have downtube cable stops and some don't. Odd. Anyways, if it is from thst seller, you should go over the head tube and bottom bracket to chase threads and face the tubes.
I've seen some no2 unbranded frames on ebay from that seller.

piefall

Yep, that’s the same seller. Mine came without cable stops. The seller noted that I might have to do that. Thank you.
EDIT: Yep, clearly will need to bring the frame to LBS for crown setting and BBS facing and squaring as I won't shell out for the right tools.
(photo) Bottom bracket shell

piefall

Wew, can post links and photos now ;-)
In case you were interested in that particular seller's inventory - glam shots of the frame!

(photo) Champion No 2. unbranded fork
(photo) Champion No 2. unbranded frame and fork in sun light
(photo) Champion No 2. unbranded frame and fork - drive side

EDIT #2 : Never mind. It was a glitch in the Matrix, I saw something that was not there lol.

ryansu

pic assist

ryansu

Sage advise ctak I have often overspent on a rebuild and wished I had ridden the bike more before filling my Amazon cart The clunker challenge has taught me some good lessons in that way.

ShannonM

For $200, you'd be hard-pressed to get those parts for that money, and that's not counting whatever you sell the frame for. I'd do it. You'll likely need a headset, as the donor bike is probably 1-1/8" threadless. You'll need a 1" threaded to 1-1/8" threadless adapter to use the bar and stem. The brakes may or may not reach the rims on the steel frame. You might need to buy a new bottom bracket, but probably not. The seatpost is probably the wrong size, but ya never know.

Strip the frame, leave the headset in it, sell the frameset for 100 bucks, and Bob's yer uncle. Nice steel sport-touring bike, 9 speed STI triple, $270. I'd call that a win!

--Shannon

piefall

Yep, I scoured the webs and all parts combined came to over the 2x price of the package. But... it was too good to be true - and gone before I could rich that mouse button ;-)

ShannonM

Bummer!

--Shannon

piefall

Drumroll please... It took heavy use of the LBS craftsman as I had no tools for head tube and bottom bracket chasing / facing. It's a big upgrade from my Kilo WT - it's much lighter due to frame and wheel set. Loving Shimano 105 smooth hubs even though they are from 90s. Going from 3.00 gear ratio to 2.80 is amazing too - perfect for me. I put about 100 miles on it last week and overall I give the build 9 out of 10 due to two small fixable things: need to find a proper binder bolt/nut combo and rear skewer is not matching Shimano in the front. Binder has a weird slot shaped like "0-", old KHS frame just had a round hex nut.



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If anyone curious this is my total build parts list - cost includes shipping and tax.

RobbieTunes

Approved.

piefall

Thank you! And then I got the below from Ali-G-Express... Won't touch this single speed build, instead it will be a Spring 2021 touring bike build.
I might post my AliExpress shopping experience in another thread as I know folks are intrigued by the availability of a wide range new bike components.