BCDrums

Good question. When I put in the code for confirmation, the website returned a message confirming that the strings were legitimate, and it said:

Please note that attempts to authenticate the same Players Circle code a second time will produce an invalid result.

However, after seeing your question, I put the same code in two more times and got a Verified both times, so it didn't seem to work. Will drop them a note, see what they say.

I do know that when you go to a ballgame or a concert, they scan your ticket's bar code. The next guy who tries the same code won't get in, so such a technology does exist.

jccaclimber

You see this with the calibration certificates on the boatloads of fake Mitutoyo calipers in the world. In that case the serial number on the calipers often doesn’t match the one on the certificate inside, and if you buy multiples they all have the same serial number.

Invalidating the SN doesn’t help as someone could check the SN before purchase, invalidating it for future users. Nobody wants to register their chain.

Supply chain traceability like a shipping tracking number could solve this. If for example the KMC we page says that chain was sold 3 years ago to a local distributor in France and I’m looking at a seller in east Asia or the USA then the odds are good something is fishy.

timtak

I am sending the fake chain back to China.
> One of the easiest ways to spot fakes is the model name font which will be inconsistent.

Ah, yes, I see now that the zero is oval in the fake "0" but a sort of rounded rectangle in the real KMC packaging.


Fake zero is thinner and oval, real zero is fatter and slightly straight on the vertical sides

Papa Ado

Thank you for the reference. We are also looking into similar options for packaging.

BCDrums

I wrote:
D'Addario responded:

Thank you for reaching out! Our Play Real site is currently experiencing a bug - but our team is actively working on getting it resolved. During normal function, the Play Real site will only authenticate a code once, but since there is an issue on the site currently, this is resulting in a valid code being able to be authenticated multiple times. We are hoping to have this issue resolved shortly.

So the idea of a unique code on a chain's package that could verify it as authentic seems quite feasible.

Good luck, Papa. In the meantime, I buy my chains (and strings) from reputable sites and businesses and I don't have to worry too much about counterfeits.

smd4

I get counterfeiting Rolexes. Good ones can sell for thousands. But bike chains? Down to the packaging?? I would have never guessed.

timtak

Incidentally, the difference in the packaging of Shimano chains (which are also afaik made by KMC) is as below,

Fake the three slashes towards the top left hand corner of the cardboard box are printed all in white

Fake Shimano Chain without Silver top Right by Timothy Takemoto, on Flickr
Genuine the first two of the three slashes are printed in silver ink

Genuine Shimano Chain with Silver top Right by Timothy Takemoto, on Flickr

dantonvb

The best fake verification method I know is used by Pineng power bank brand.

You have to scratch the verification label at the back side of the packaging. Then you will see a unique serial/verification number, that you have to enter in Pineng website. It will return if the number is valid or the date and time the first valid verification was tried.

The detailed procedure could be seen here: https://pineng.com.my/Beware-Of-Fakes

The site for entering the verification number is this one: https://pineng.com.my/Product-Verification

AndrewJB

You might not have shopped for a chain on EBay lately...I would not be surprised if 80% of the Shimano/KMC chains for sale are fake....
P.S....I don't get my chains from EBay

jccaclimber

Let’s say for a moment that the counterfeit costs as much to make as the name brand product (I’m guessing it does not).
You get the same sale price, so right off you get the same margins as the OEM.

You also save:
Warranty (goes to Shimano).
Packaging cost (those reflective bits cost something).
Advertising cost.
Cost of development for any IP.
I’m guessing some cost of quality. Those details that Shimano puts into the side plates have some tolerance and I’m guessing it’s tighter on the genuine product. Same for proper metallurgy though that’s a low fallout sort of activity.

Better yet you’re doing something harder to track down than a high dollar item.

Of course you also sacrifice my definition of basic morals, but that’s just my opinion.

FBinNY 

I would.

Of course it depends on your definition of "fake". Possibly the same chain, but lacking proper packaging, or a "back door" product, or even a reject from a bad production batch. Otherwise, there's no reason to tool up to produce a counterfeit unless you can sell it at a large margin close to what the original would fetch.

A lot of so-called fake bike items were originally made and sold to an OEM. Later they were surplus to needs and unloaded onto a middleman to sell.

You make money counterfeiting high value goods like Rolex because they fetch a high price and there's plenty of room to make a passable fake cheaply, and make a good profit while still undercutting the original.

The economics of bike chains aren't anything close to that.

easyupbug 

I agree with FBinNY, in the early 2000s while doing vendor evaluations for industry I was fascinated by the shift in fakes and quality legitimate production endruns, etc. from the alley behind the American Embassy to the massive Silk Street Market. If the parent company does not do it's due diligence and manufacturer can get the same steel supplier, have all the production equipment ready to go, only short the Shimano provided packaging so the package lettering or color is off you might actually get a good deal.

timtak

In the case of the chains in fake Shimano packages (without the silver bits) the chains that I bought from aliexpress did not last at all long -- less than 3000km.

I think I can usually get nearly twice that from even the cheapest (FSC) chains that I buy but then in the past I have tended to wait for chain drop before changing chains rather than using a tool (my waxing experience is going well so I think I will be using a tool in future).

There several reviewers saying that some of the fake KMC chains are failing on the first ride but I have sent mine back so I will not find out. The seller claimed "It came from the factory" and the chain itself looked like a real one rather than the fake pictured on the KMC site.

KMC chains from individuals in non fake seeming boxes are now pretty cheap on auction in Japan, their price perhaps having been depressed by the fakes.

Papa Ado

80% is too high, but you may be surprised at the amount of fake chains online. Check out the multiple Shopee and Lazada websites for a deep dive. If the seller claims that the chain "came from the original factory" but it's in a fake aftermarket box, they are lying. If it's a grey market OEM chain (without AM box), they would likely sell it in it's polybag packaging.

timtak

There is a great YouTube video explaining both packaging (printing) and chain construction differences between fake and genuine KMC chains here

The video points out many differences including that the internal (often black) genuine KMC chain links are chamfered slightly whereas the internal (often black) plates of fake chains are completely flat.

Unfortunately however, the packaging differences mention in this video and in this thread have largely been removed.

I just bought another "KMC" chain from aliexpress and the packing differences outlined above had gone but the plates of the chain were flat (and the chain feels as though it has a lot of play) so I am pretty sure it is fake.

The only packaging difference that remains is that the main diagonal lines against the blue background on the fake package do not fade out but end abruptly as detailed in my post above of 09-02-22 05:18 PM.

I hope KMC gets some product registration system going. Some chains on amazon Japan may be fake. They are everywhere.

Tim

grumpus

There have been instances of fake Shimano chains turning up, I would be surprised if it was confined to Shimano.

FBinNY 

The tooling costs to make counterfeit chains is very high and it would take a large and successful operation to make it worthwhile.

However, sometimes counterfeits aren't truly counterfeit. It's a fairly common practice to set up a 2nd factory where OEM clients are, to be competitive for that business. Those 2nd source versions are usually not sold for aftermarket, but some sneak out the back door.

grumpus

If you're already making cheap chains it's not hard to stamp them with "KMC" instead of whatever you used otherwise.

FBinNY 

Yes, and no. If the tooling was built for that purpose it's wouldn't be that difficult to change the makings. But the production would have to remain segregated through all the downstream processes. However, that assumes that the link shapes are near identical, otherwise the counterfeit would be too easy to spot. If you also need to counterfeit the link (not just the marking) then it's a very different proposition with tooling costs running tens of thousands of dollars.

However, the best evidence against counterfeiting is that brand name chains aren't doing anything about it. It would be pretty easy to track down a chain manufacturer, since it's not that big a world. So, I lean to believing it's a back door from someone related to the brand ownership, especially since we're not talking about super premium versions.

Duragrouch

I beg to differ; For a fake maker in a country that honors IP and takes action, viable. But China produces immense amount of fakes, everything from "Coach" bags to other premium goods. China doesn't prosecute, they have zero incentive to do so, it's bringing in money (in the same way Russia and other countries don't go after computer-malware-blackmail actors) and the genuine part makers are not interested in going after the customers, it gains them nothing. I read an article a couple months back, IIRC, China is not even respecting IP on big wind turbines, they buy a few, reverse-engineer it down to the last bolt, then build them in quantity. I saw this decades ago, copies of the Ithaca model 37 shotgun for $200 retail, lots of other stuff. Yeah, chains seem cheap enough they wouldn't do it, but we're talking about a country that can produce a nice-looking click-stop torque wrench, 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" drive, all selling for $10 each *retail* (on sale) at Harbor Freight. Copies of Pelican-style cases there too at 1/3 the cost. Only thing to change is the KMC or other letter embossing in the die stage when the material is still in the flat before blanking them out, that's an easy and cheap change. And the packaging and product detail proof (like no chamfer) has been mentioned above; Those can't be just a random few; If one fake is found, they are making a lot of them. Further, China is so obsessed with producing anything and everything, with strong government support, I would not doubt if they do some things at break-even, just to get the initial experience with the product, for greater profit later. They didn't buy top level Sukhoi fighters from Russia, they built them in China under license (J-11, J-15, J-16). Yeah that's going to work out well for Russia in the long run. Not. Now they designed the more advanced J-20 themselves. Japan demanded the same for an F-16 variant. When Boeing willingly outsourced the 787 wing to Japan, the engineers said, if you have them make the wing, you're giving away the store. Sorry the rant. I know we're just talking about bike chains. But there is ample evidence of China copying everything, and in many cases others foolishly gave them the knowledge to do so, for higher profits than domestically sourced goods. Following the 2008 crash, China was able to purchase some US makers of advanced technology for cheap, I saw it happen. Delphi Automotive (for their advanced Magneride damper technology), Cirrus Aircraft (for composite manufacturing technology), et al. Shame on us for letting it happen.

FBinNY 

We disagree, and that's OK since neither of us has direct knowledge. As you point out, China doesn't do anything to stop counterfeiting. But the examples you cite all command a brand name premium, or other features that allo we knockoffs to me made much cheaper by comparison. We don't see that incentive with something like a KMC chain. I'd expect that someone doing chain knockoffs to do Dura Ace, or Campy instead.

If you were going to counterfeit US currency, you wouldn't do ones, would you?

But, it really doesn't matter, because, regardless of who and how, it's still a fraud, as it's not the actual item it's sold as.

Duragrouch

I agree with the above. Yes there would be greater profit margin on a fake of a premium chain, however the performance difference might be noticed easier, and there is much more sales volume to be made at the lower end of the market. Like I said, I look at some of the things of acceptable quality coming out of China, and wonder how the retail price could be so low. Their material costs and labor costs must be very low. On the other hand, there are scores of examples of industries "dumping" goods at cost or even less, to destroy competitor industries, looking long term. China looks very long term, that has been documented in very recent reports about their military and expansionist plans. I don't think China is "dumping" bike chains to drive the genuine companies out of business. But to keep their factories churning and employed, sure. At the very least, the government looking the other way.

timtak

Yes, you are right. I bought a fake Shimano chain too, as mentioned further up the thread. The fakes tend to not last at all long and may be wrecking the cassette and chainring.

Even the KMC chain sold by and shipped by Amazon Japan appears to be fake
by https://www.flickr.com/photos/nihonbunka/, on Flickr
I think it may be fake because there are no lines on the X-links and the black back (internal) plates do not appear to be chamfered.I am not sure why this image is displaying twice.

It would be great if KMC could put information regarding genuine chain construction (chamfering, position of lines etc) on their Webpage, because the fakers seem to have perfected the fake packaging.

Tim

veganbikes

It would be greater if people stopped buying fake chains. If they aren't an authorized dealer don't purchase from them. Instead of the onus being on KMC to provide you with a way to figure out what is real or not just buy from a retailer authorized to sell their products and you will be getting something genuine. If you stop giving money to the fakers and those who support the fakers and sell their fake products with no morale scruples they will stop existing or will be pushed further to the margins.

There is no need to actively support these folks. Jeff Bezos, Andy Jassy, Jack Ma and Eddie Wu will still be billionaires (maybe Jassy is only a multi millionaire but I doubt that highly and even still 400+million is a lot of money) without you buying fakes from their website. Buy the real stuff and sure you won't """""""""""""save""""""""""""" a few bucks but you will be getting the genuine article and will have support from the actual real company that makes it. That random fauxtory that cranks out the fake products won't support anything and the sites that sell the fake stuff really isn't going to support you so you screw yourself and KMC and all those who work for KMC and sell actual real KMC products and so on and so forth.

2_i 

Taking cars as an exception, which need to be tough for the conditions, practically every industrial product sold in Africa is of either declared marginal quality or a fake. You can add to this India and you already get 2 billion consumers. I am sure you can go around other countries and at least double that number. The market for low-quality goods is enormous, and some of the marginal supply spills to Ali, Amazon, or Ebay, feeding the markets that expect higher quality. Whether you buy these or not, these goods make really no difference to the producers behind the marginal goods. Consumers in poor countries generally cannot afford the higher quality and it just makes them feel better when it is written that they buy a KMC chain, Sony battery, or a Gucci bag.