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A cyclist passed me while I was turning L at intersection.

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A cyclist passed me while I was turning L at intersection.

Old 05-01-21, 06:00 PM
  #51  
y2zipper
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You have to be a little more predictable than that. What you can do better is make what you're doing predictable and clear so YOU can keep yourself safe. What other people are doing doesn't really matter. If I'm heading down a hill to catch a green and don't see you signal, I'm assuming you're going straight. Really, the dude shouldn't have had room

As a cyclist, avoid the dual purpose lane, signal, and use better lane positioning. You should go left most to make a left and right most to make a right. If you're waiting for a green, signal after the light changes then go.
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Old 05-02-21, 05:48 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by y2zipper View Post
You have to be a little more predictable than that. What you can do better is make what you're doing predictable and clear so YOU can keep yourself safe. What other people are doing doesn't really matter. If I'm heading down a hill to catch a green and don't see you signal, I'm assuming you're going straight. Really, the dude shouldn't have had room

As a cyclist, avoid the dual purpose lane, signal, and use better lane positioning. You should go left most to make a left and right most to make a right. If you're waiting for a green, signal after the light changes then go.
Generally, I agree with that --the cyclist behind shouldn't have to guess whether you're turning or not.
I might, under those circumstances, be on the left side of the dual purpose lane, but I'd definitely throw a signal if I did.

I don't know where this imaginary rule that no one should ever pass a cyclist in an intersection is coming from, but if anyone is assuming that other drivers or cyclists are going to follow it, they're begging for trouble.

Long story short, we can disagree whether the passing cyclist had the "right" to pass, but that's meaningless. What's important is that making it appear that you're going straight will make it extremely likely that someone is going to pass on your left in one sort of vehicle or another.

Last edited by livedarklions; 05-02-21 at 05:56 AM.
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Old 05-02-21, 08:03 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
What's important is that making it appear that you're going straight will make it extremely likely that someone is going to pass on your left in one sort of vehicle or another.
Which is why I think lane position is more critical in intersections than almost anywhere else. I prefer starting from the left part, turning left, or at least in the center. The precise plan really depends on what's coming after the turn.

For those still concerned about FRAP, it doesn't apply when preparing to turn left. Neither legally nor as a practical matter, the latter being more important as LDL mentioned.
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Old 05-02-21, 11:28 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
Which is why I think lane position is more critical in intersections than almost anywhere else. I prefer starting from the left part, turning left, or at least in the center. The precise plan really depends on what's coming after the turn.

For those still concerned about FRAP, it doesn't apply when preparing to turn left. Neither legally nor as a practical matter, the latter being more important as LDL mentioned.
NH law explicitly states that FRAP doesn't apply in setting up a left turn. I'm pretty sure that's true pretty much everywhere in the US. Drivers often don't understand this, which is why I always signal the left turn even when I'm in a left turn only lane.
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Old 05-02-21, 01:18 PM
  #55  
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I would say you should have been far enough to the left in that lane that they couldn't pass you on the left without entering the left only lane. That would have been indication enough for me.
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Old 05-03-21, 08:50 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Wait, what?! Are you saying you need to stop or crawl through such an intersection even if you have the green light?
No, he's not saying that.
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Old 05-03-21, 11:40 AM
  #57  
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I did it - I got the signal to change! The next time I came to this intersection, again, there weren't any cars to trigger the sensor. This time though, I moved to the center of the lane and rolled up to where my crankset was even with the stop line. There are no cuts in the pavement so, I don't know where the sensor is. But this did it! I'm exceptionally happy about it.

Thanks to all for your input on this thread.
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Old 05-10-21, 04:32 AM
  #58  
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If I was in this situation, I would place my bike on the left third of the lane and then while turning left I would move back to the right part of the lane. Because this lane is also for going straight, you also need to consider cars going straight and if you stay on the right you can put yourself in trouble in the middle of the intersection.

In the Netherlands bikes need to keep as far right on the road as safely possible. Except when turning left, then the appropriate place is right against the middle of the road (in the case of two lanes with two-way traffic), such that you block other traffic from overtaking you in your lane. I am sure the US would have similar rules.
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Old 05-10-21, 06:08 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by mr_pedro View Post
If I was in this situation, I would place my bike on the left third of the lane and then while turning left I would move back to the right part of the lane. Because this lane is also for going straight, you also need to consider cars going straight and if you stay on the right you can put yourself in trouble in the middle of the intersection.

In the Netherlands bikes need to keep as far right on the road as safely possible. Except when turning left, then the appropriate place is right against the middle of the road (in the case of two lanes with two-way traffic), such that you block other traffic from overtaking you in your lane. I am sure the US would have similar rules.
Even if you ignore the legal issue, it's just common sense that if you position yourself in the lane so that it appears you are going straight AND you don't signal a left turn, you can expect that you might be passed on your left by ANY vehicle behind you.

I'm not really sympathetic to OP here, I can understand the weird positioning because of the light trigger, but don't get why a left turn wasn't signalled.
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Old 05-10-21, 09:02 AM
  #60  
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This thread is dumb. If the OP would just HTFU and pedal a little harder he would make it through the light while it’s still green, and not get shame-passed on the left by UcantTouchThis on his fat (double meaning?) bike.
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Old 05-16-21, 04:12 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Nyah View Post
None.


Did the other guy have the right to pass me on my left in this situation?
From your initial description. Were you in the right tire track, or the left tire track? I ask, because. If you were in the right tire track. The other cyclist could have thought you were just slow to start. But if you were in the left tire track, they should not have passed you.
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Old 05-17-21, 06:48 PM
  #62  
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None of these questions matter. No passing in intersections.
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Old 05-18-21, 01:29 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by xyz View Post
None of these questions matter. No passing in intersections.

Says who? That doesn't appear to be a law anywhere I know. No one in this thread has been able to produce one, just statements that they think it's unreasonable.

My answer is the opposite of yours, it doesn't matter if the passing rider had a "right," passing in an intersection is so common, you need to be prepared for it.

If you're riding and assume no one is going to pass you in an intersection regardless of whether you fail to signal or where you're positioned in the lane, then you're asking for trouble.
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Old 05-18-21, 06:48 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by xyz View Post
None of these questions matter. No passing in intersections.
It's likely the lanes leading to intersection had solid lines (indicating no passing) but cyclists are often allowed to pass when cars are not.

​​​​​​Passing in intersections is more risky.

Anyway, the original question was if the passing cyclist had a "right" to pass.

The answer to that is clearly "no". No one has a "right" to pass and the passing vehicle doesn't have the "right of way" either.

You may only pass when it's safe to do so.

And, as many people have said, the OP chose a poor lane position and didn't signal.

The passing cyclist was putting too much trust in knowing what the cyclist in the intersection would do.

The reasons a careful driver wouldn't pass in this situation apply to cyclists (even if cyclists have somewhat more latitude).

In any case, ​​​​​​given that the OP has no way of keeping others from passing him, it's really on him to take care (which he appeared to do).

Last edited by njkayaker; 05-18-21 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 05-18-21, 09:12 AM
  #65  
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No passing OR lane changes in intersection. If something had happened and this ended up in court it would be 100% on the guy passing.
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Old 05-18-21, 10:01 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by work4bike View Post
Here in Jax, nearly all stop lights have an imprint that is easily seen where the sensors for the light are; I never have a problem actuating them, and I always sit over top the center wire (dead center of the lane). We don't have them in the bike lanes as shown here, so I always take the lane at lights.
https://youtu.be/Ilt4Pt4dk-Y
Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
I have yet to come across sensors that are sensitive enough to detect my bicycle. It may be largely due to the fact that my bicycle doesn't have much magnetic material in it.
Originally Posted by 10 Wheels View Post
None of the sensors work for bikes in our area.
We Stop Look if Clear we Go.
Even The Police know that and have NOT given us any problem.

The ability of sensors to detect cyclists varies greatly all over the US, and even in some cities... For a long time I lived in an area that only had two ways in and out, due to canyons blocking all other access. One way I could go (north) almost always worked just fine, and would sense the bike. The other area (west) never worked... didn't even work for motorcycles (I discussed this with a biker while waiting at the same light with him).

Now the north light didn't always work properly... but I submitted both lights to the street division and after several months was informed that the sensors had been calibrated. The west light never worked for me. Period. The north light was a camera mounted system and if I had a high enough contrast, and rode centered in the lane, I could get it to work every time. (I commuted this way daily)

Now note, this is in the same town, within about a 2 mile area. So bottom line... your town, your neighborhood may have sensors that work... but that just ain't the case across America. (and there is scant effort to make it so.)
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Old 05-18-21, 10:24 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by xyz View Post
No passing OR lane changes in intersection. If something had happened and this ended up in court it would be 100% on the guy passing.

Doubtful. For 100% liability, the OP would have to prove that it was unreasonable to pass in that intersection even though there is no law specifically forbidding it and also that OP was not negligent in taking a left hand turn without signaling and checking to make sure the lane was clear for the turn. In a contributory negligence jurisdiction (and there are still a few states and DC in this category), any negligence on the part of OP would bar him from collecting from the passing bicyclist. Most states are comparative negligence, and it's probable that OP's award would be reduced by some percentage for the failure to signal and check.

I think there's a fundamental misconception here that passing a cyclist in an intersection is per se negligence or otherwise illegal (again, anyone want to actually produce a law forbidding it?). Judging by how many cars actually pass me in an intersection on any given ride where there's traffic, I really don't think that's a common view.
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Old 05-18-21, 10:26 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by xyz View Post
No passing OR lane changes in intersection.
Cyclists are often allowed to pass where cars are not. So, it's somewhat ambiguous for this case. (I'd tend to err on the side of caution and say agree it's illegal.)

But, given it's illegal for drivers, it seems prudent to consider that it might not be a good idea to do it as a cyclist.

What's odd is there are some people who think it's just fine and even get mad if it's suggested it's not a good idea.
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Old 05-18-21, 11:59 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Doubtful. For 100% liability, the OP would have to prove that it was unreasonable to pass in that intersection even though there is no law specifically forbidding it and also that OP was not negligent in taking a left hand turn without signaling and checking to make sure the lane was clear for the turn. In a contributory negligence jurisdiction (and there are still a few states and DC in this category), any negligence on the part of OP would bar him from collecting from the passing bicyclist. Most states are comparative negligence, and it's probable that OP's award would be reduced by some percentage for the failure to signal and check.

I think there's a fundamental misconception here that passing a cyclist in an intersection is per se negligence or otherwise illegal (again, anyone want to actually produce a law forbidding it?). Judging by how many cars actually pass me in an intersection on any given ride where there's traffic, I really don't think that's a common view.
That would depend on if you were riding on the shoulder or taking a full lane. If you are taking a full lane, on a two lane two way road, then no passing.
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Old 05-18-21, 12:04 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
Cyclists are often allowed to pass where cars are not. So, it's somewhat ambiguous for this case. (I'd tend to err on the side of caution and say agree it's illegal.)

But, given it's illegal for drivers, it seems prudent to consider that it might not be a good idea to do it as a cyclist.

What's odd is there are some people who think it's just fine and even get mad if it's suggested it's not a good idea.
The reason why passing isn't allowed at intersections is because it's dangerous, so it's dumb to do it. In most states you are are not allowed to pass with 100 feet of an intersection or a railroad crossing.
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Old 05-18-21, 12:22 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by xyz View Post
The reason why passing isn't allowed at intersections is because it's dangerous, so it's dumb to do it. In most states you are are not allowed to pass with 100 feet of an intersection or a railroad crossing.
The solid white lines at intersections mean one can't cross over into the adjacent lane.

In many states, cyclists are legally allowed to pass in no-passing zones (there is often an explicit law that allows them to pass within the lane) and it's not necessarily dangerous for them to do so.

So, "illegal for cars to pass" does not mean "illegal for cyclists to pass".

I've said that it's risky to do multiple times.

Last edited by njkayaker; 05-18-21 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 05-18-21, 01:04 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by xyz View Post
That would depend on if you were riding on the shoulder or taking a full lane. If you are taking a full lane, on a two lane two way road, then no passing.

Yes, if I'm taking the full lane. It's quite clear from the OP that he was not doing so--he was on the right side of the middle lane intending to take a left turn, positioning that made no sense if signaling intentions.. It's why I'm always going to take the lane to avoid a right hook at an intersection where a right turn is possible or if I'm taking a left turn. Even in NH, those are FRAP exceptions.

If you watch urban intersections, cyclists pass each other all the time. I think it's absurd to pretend this is some sort of general taboo, and if you do that IRL, don't expect anyone else to be on the same page.
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Old 06-05-21, 02:59 PM
  #73  
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I would have moved to the left of lane so a vehicle going straight could safely pass. I also move to the left when going straight in a straight/right lane as well.
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