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Old 06-03-21, 03:38 PM
  #76  
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Perhaps C&V will be the era of predominantly steel (production) frames. It might be 2K or 2020. Pre-pandemic? Assuming you believe there was a pandemic. (You see @Siu Blue Wind? we need P&R, )
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Old 06-03-21, 03:59 PM
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I think by its nature, the definition of 'classic' will drift with the passage of time. Just as 'classic car' once only referred to pre-WW2 cars. With time it came to include 50's era cars. Nowadays they have car shows for 80's cars- and they are appreciating rapidly in value too.
Same with bikes. Some people think a classic bike should only have non-aero brake levers. But that would exclude a whole chunk of late 80's bikes which came from aero levers from the factory. Others think classic bikes should only have toe-clips, etc. I think we should just let everyone define what 'classic' means for himself. If you think your bike belongs here then it belongs here. I don't see any point in separating out brifter bikes and kicking them out of the C&V forum.
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Old 06-03-21, 04:02 PM
  #78  
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I had a really nicely worded, community oriented explanation of why I thought the brifter forum was not the best idea- and then I read Wildwood's post and it pissed me off. **** that. I have enough things to do and I waste enough time on the internet; I don't need to waste more time looking at yet another forum because you think your special bike deserves a more special home or you don't know where to post it.

It's an old bike- it goes in C&V- post your pix there, buck up, scroll past the **** you don't want to look at. Just like everyone else.

This siphons off things that potentially interest me to a place that I'm not going to look- when it really does belong here.
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Old 06-03-21, 04:12 PM
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I think we all need our own individual subforums.
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Old 06-03-21, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
I think the 6-speed brifter crowd will feel left out.
I use 9-speed brifters to shift 6-speed freewheels. I think I'll just sneak in and stand in the back.
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Old 06-03-21, 04:55 PM
  #81  
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Where are the for sale bikes/components from this thread era going to be listed? People need to know.
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Old 06-03-21, 05:03 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Where are the for sale bikes/components from this thread era going to be listed? People need to know.

meh, pick a forum, it really doesn't matter. C&V Sales, road bike marketplace, heck, make a request to have a special forum just for this type of sale.

i am going to request there be a 'clipless pedal only' forum. i hate reading about that stuff, and getting it out of C&V would be a godsend.

i still really can't comprehend (and certainly haven't seen) the user demand for a 7-9 speed brifter forum. ridiculous.
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Old 06-03-21, 05:04 PM
  #83  
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In the regular marketplace.
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Old 06-03-21, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by non-fixie View Post
I use 9-speed brifters to shift 6-speed freewheels. I think I'll just sneak in and stand in the back.
I'd love to see someone 3D print an insert to shift a Shimano 6-speed UG freewheel with a first-gen Ergo lever.

Not because anyone asked, but because it'd just be wonderfully wacky.

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Old 06-03-21, 06:10 PM
  #85  
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If I had any “early brifter bikes”, I would sell them so I wouldn’t have to leave C&V to talk about them.

Thankfully my stable includes 6 speed indexed downtube shifters, then jumps all the way to 10 speed brifters.

There are already forums here that barely get any traffic, we don’t need another.
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Old 06-03-21, 06:58 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post

My late 90's Pinarello Cadore has a home.
To me, the material and geometry of this frame qualifies it as “classic”, regardless of components. For me it starts and ends with the frame, and I think we often forget that the “C” in C&V covers all of the not quite vintage based on year of production but still vintage in spirit bikes. Modern customs fall under this (the brian Chapman thread comes to mind). Those often come equipped with technology that wasn’t around or prevalent 40+ years ago, but overall maintain the classic spirit.

Some may argue that component choices kill the classic spirit, I don’t, as long as the frames got it.

Ultimately, there are few enough of these threads that they don’t take up a lot of space in the C&V forum and I don’t know that anyone has ever really complained (in the thread at least) about seeing them here, because it makes just enough sense. A solution looking for a problem, as someone above noted.

But, as noted earlier in the thread, I’m really neither here nor there on this, but this is how I see it and what I predict.

This will certainly be my favorite thread for awhile as long as it stays open

Last edited by polymorphself; 06-03-21 at 11:47 PM.
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Old 06-03-21, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by C9H13N View Post

There are already forums here that barely get any traffic, we don’t need another.
Important point. I see this going the same way as the “touring for sale” sub forum and people will slowly migrate their posts back to this forum when they don’t get the attention they deserve or desire.
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Old 06-03-21, 07:13 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee View Post
I think by its nature, the definition of 'classic' will drift with the passage of time. Just as 'classic car' once only referred to pre-WW2 cars. With time it came to include 50's era cars. Nowadays they have car shows for 80's cars- and they are appreciating rapidly in value too.
Same with bikes. Some people think a classic bike should only have non-aero brake levers. But that would exclude a whole chunk of late 80's bikes which came from aero levers from the factory. Others think classic bikes should only have toe-clips, etc. I think we should just let everyone define what 'classic' means for himself. If you think your bike belongs here then it belongs here. I don't see any point in separating out brifter bikes and kicking them out of the C&V forum.
No, I think it's more like music. When I was growing up (in the 80's), we had "oldies" (mostly 50's to mid-60's) and we had "classic rock" (later 60's and 70's). Some of the music from the 80's became classic rock because it had a similar aesthetic, but most of it will never age into that category, just like classic rock will never become "oldies" while any of us who have ever listened to it regularly are still around. And then there's classical, which looks on first glance like it might be defined by a very large age range but turns out to still be an active category.

In this analogy the early brifter bikes would be like 80's pop -- a historical footnote that most of us are extremely embarrassed about and wish had never happened but which a small number of deranged people still really enjoy.
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Old 06-03-21, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by polymorphself View Post
Important point. I see this going the same way as the “touring for sale” sub forum and people will slowly migrate their posts back to this forum when they don’t get the attention they deserve or desire.
That's the Electric Bikes forum. One could close that entire thing and nobody would notice. EBR is where the action is, and if that's not DIY enough, there's Endless Sphere.

Interesting point: C&V is second only to Road as the most popular forum at BF. We have just over double the number of posts in Mechanics as well.

-Kurt
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Old 06-03-21, 07:23 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
No, I think it's more like music...In this analogy the early brifter bikes would be like 80's pop -- a historical footnote that most of us are extremely embarrassed about and wish had never happened but which a small number of deranged people still really enjoy.
Now that's a little harsh...Ergo 8's were badass. Unlike some of the aforementioned music.

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Old 06-03-21, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
I read Wildwood's post and it pissed me off. **** that. I have enough things to do and I waste enough time on the internet; I don't need to waste more time looking at yet another forum because you think your special bike deserves a more special home.


@Wildwood should have his own forum, limited to tall head tube, long stem, vintage steel bikes with tubulars and Arlo Guthrie inspired "party rides."

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Old 06-03-21, 07:28 PM
  #92  
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I'll take this....thank you!

This is what I would consider a present.
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Old 06-03-21, 07:40 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
No, I think it's more like music. When I was growing up (in the 80's), we had "oldies" (mostly 50's to mid-60's) and we had "classic rock" (later 60's and 70's). Some of the music from the 80's became classic rock because it had a similar aesthetic, but most of it will never age into that category, just like classic rock will never become "oldies" while any of us who have ever listened to it regularly are still around. And then there's classical, which looks on first glance like it might be defined by a very large age range but turns out to still be an active category.

In this analogy the early brifter bikes would be like 80's pop -- a historical footnote that most of us are extremely embarrassed about and wish had never happened but which a small number of deranged people still really enjoy.


....I think about this, every time I notice that Duran Duran is still playing to audiences. Same songs.
Not sure, but I think they're still wearing the same clothes. Everything is timeless to someone. Except the human body.

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Old 06-03-21, 07:46 PM
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^^^
...this must be why old rock stars don't live long and happy retired lives. I remember watching Joan Jett and the Blackhearts playing the state fair here one year. I just felt bad for her.
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Old 06-03-21, 08:42 PM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
No, I think it's more like music. When I was growing up (in the 80's), we had "oldies" (mostly 50's to mid-60's) and we had "classic rock" (later 60's and 70's). Some of the music from the 80's became classic rock because it had a similar aesthetic, but most of it will never age into that category, just like classic rock will never become "oldies" while any of us who have ever listened to it regularly are still around. And then there's classical, which looks on first glance like it might be defined by a very large age range but turns out to still be an active category.
I think you're totally wrong... Like you said- when I was a kid there were oldies stations, top 40 stations and there were rock stations- then there were "classic rock" stations and the stuff that was classic rock migrated to that/those stations. The rock stations kind of had the new 'metal-y' stuff as well as your "get the Led out" stuff... As things have aged- the classic rock stuff is greatly becoming what the "oldies" stations were... on the way out. Then the "new rock" "alternative" stations popped up... and either died or morphed into whatever Clear Channel or iHeart wants them to play. I like to think the music I grew up on was awesome and the musicians were all awesome and badass... Yes, there are kids that are into the Beatles and Zeppelin and Stones and stuff... but... that stuff is aging out. The music the kids are all into changes so fast and it's really not on terrestrial radio and it's all driven by forces you don't even know, man.
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Old 06-03-21, 08:59 PM
  #96  
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Looks like a solution looking for a problem. My opinion only.

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Old 06-03-21, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
but... that stuff is aging out. The music the kids are all into changes so fast and it's really not on terrestrial radio and it's all driven by forces you don't even know, man.
I thank my 22 year old daughter for her playlists. When she was 12 she was on headsets, singing Elbow, Feist, The Hip and the Specials in the back seat on road trips. It's my turn, from Billie Eilish, to Kendrick Lamar, even some Drake (there's too much)
I only just found out my sons fave Floyd song is Wish you were Here. I'm happy he even knows it. He's got some angry music in his collection.
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Old 06-03-21, 09:21 PM
  #98  
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Seems to me an arbitrary division of C&V. Early brifter bikes are clearly in the C&V time frame. Would make as much sense to move anything with dual pivot brakes. Might have been better to poll the C&V section or at least consult with some of the knowledgeable stalwarts. We random members probably can come up with lots of ideas, doesn't mean they should be adopted.
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Old 06-03-21, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
....I think about this, every time I notice that Duran Duran is still playing to audiences. Same songs.

Meeting Siu, with a view, to some threads
Chasing faces, secret raceways, in a shed

Brifters not for me,
But you know, the plans they're making
Not our cupp'a tea,
Could it be, the whole forums' turning snide...
A sacred "WHY?!"
Willwood laughing inside
The forum cried...

Then they wrenched on a Firenze,
Those modern bits were all they need,
Wrenched on a Firenze,
To protest cries of vintage steeds,
They wrenched on a Firenze,
Those modern bits were all they need,
Wrenched on a Firenze...
(All /s, of course).

-Kurt
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Old 06-03-21, 10:00 PM
  #100  
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Personally, I think anything at least 20 years old classifies as classic, and at this point in the timeline anything made before 1985 is vintage, regardless of what kind of components are currently adorning it.

I’m not a fan of splitting things off into another forum, I’m firmly in the “keep it all together” camp.

But I’ll go wherever the road takes me.
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