Is Kroil the best?
12-20-21, 12:53 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Is Kroil the best?
...penetrating oil. Got a stuck alum seatpost in steel frame. I've tried liquid wrench from the top for 2 days with no results.
I had a similar problem with a great Kona frame a friend gave me, steel frame, alum seatpost. He tried PB Blaster, iirc, and I tried liquid wrench from the top, then a local mechanic tried Kroil through the BB. The Kroil worked. I've read Kroil is better because it has "smaller molecules" or some such nonsense, and I want some opinions before I pop for $30 on a 16oz spray can.
I had a similar problem with a great Kona frame a friend gave me, steel frame, alum seatpost. He tried PB Blaster, iirc, and I tried liquid wrench from the top, then a local mechanic tried Kroil through the BB. The Kroil worked. I've read Kroil is better because it has "smaller molecules" or some such nonsense, and I want some opinions before I pop for $30 on a 16oz spray can.
12-20-21, 01:05 PM
#2
Senior Member
This should be the same problem for the seat post. Stuck Handlebar Stem by Jobst Brandt (sheldonbrown.com)
12-20-21, 02:27 PM
#3
Full Member
I think that Kroil is a really good penetrating oil, and certainly worth trying - but there's no guarantee that it will solve this particular problem for you. An aluminum seatpost stuck in a steel frame can be fiendishly difficult.
There is lots of discussion and exposition out there about different approaches - from mild to wild - for dealing with this.
There is lots of discussion and exposition out there about different approaches - from mild to wild - for dealing with this.
12-20-21, 02:29 PM
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sunburst ...
You could try a mix of auto tranny fluid and acetone. I've not used it, but I have read near or as good of results as the kroil. A forum member that frequents the C & V has used it with a good degree of success. Wuzzat you 3alarmer ????
Otherwise, I know you can find the ratio mix on google. It's certainly cheaper than Kroil, and you can use the fluids (not mixed) for other things.
edit: here's a link for your interest: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...ze-mix.249189/
You could try a mix of auto tranny fluid and acetone. I've not used it, but I have read near or as good of results as the kroil. A forum member that frequents the C & V has used it with a good degree of success. Wuzzat you 3alarmer ????
Otherwise, I know you can find the ratio mix on google. It's certainly cheaper than Kroil, and you can use the fluids (not mixed) for other things.
edit: here's a link for your interest: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...ze-mix.249189/
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12-20-21, 02:35 PM
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Yes, Kroil is one of the best IME. A 50/50 mix of Automotive Automatic Transmission Fluid and Acetone is equal or better but know that Acetone can damage paint and plastics though not a worry if you keep it off those surfaces. As mentioned, it may not do much for a seriously stuck seatpost but penetrants would be my first thing to try.
Looks like thook beat me to it.
Looks like thook beat me to it.
12-20-21, 02:41 PM
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I like freeze-off, it adds a thermic shock of cold to good penetrating oil.
my last stuck seat post took 6 weeks to get off. Did the ammonia soak, the 50/50 atf/acetone mix, and ended up fabricating a bit lever thing, which when used with freeze off and lots of "tapping" finally got it out
my last stuck seat post took 6 weeks to get off. Did the ammonia soak, the 50/50 atf/acetone mix, and ended up fabricating a bit lever thing, which when used with freeze off and lots of "tapping" finally got it out
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12-20-21, 03:12 PM
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When out of my PB-Blaster, I have successfully used Automatic Transmission Fluid. I have mixed it with Denatured alcohol, Acetone (fingernail polish remover), and even in a pinch a little gasoline. It appears to dissolve some of the oxidation on aluminum parts given time. It also lubricates some...
It appears that over time my chest of POL (Petroleum Oils Lubricants) is getting quite small and Automatic Transmission Fluid is having more and more uses...
It appears that over time my chest of POL (Petroleum Oils Lubricants) is getting quite small and Automatic Transmission Fluid is having more and more uses...
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12-20-21, 03:20 PM
#8
Senior Member
...penetrating oil. Got a stuck alum seatpost in steel frame. I've tried liquid wrench from the top for 2 days with no results.
I had a similar problem with a great Kona frame a friend gave me, steel frame, alum seatpost. He tried PB Blaster, iirc, and I tried liquid wrench from the top, then a local mechanic tried Kroil through the BB. The Kroil worked. I've read Kroil is better because it has "smaller molecules" or some such nonsense, and I want some opinions before I pop for $30 on a 16oz spray can.
I had a similar problem with a great Kona frame a friend gave me, steel frame, alum seatpost. He tried PB Blaster, iirc, and I tried liquid wrench from the top, then a local mechanic tried Kroil through the BB. The Kroil worked. I've read Kroil is better because it has "smaller molecules" or some such nonsense, and I want some opinions before I pop for $30 on a 16oz spray can.
12-20-21, 03:26 PM
#9
Stevoo
Don't know if it is "The Best". But it has been the best I have used.
I have been told there are 2 formulas. Some folks say one is better than the other. I never bothered to verify that information, so no comment on that.
i have some in a squeeze bottle that came from maint guy where I used to work. It has always worked for me. Stuck seat posts, stuck aluminum quill stems all were removed using Kroil.
It is my "go to" for that kind of stuff. It has been handy stuff to have for lots of stuck stuff.
Good luck.
I have been told there are 2 formulas. Some folks say one is better than the other. I never bothered to verify that information, so no comment on that.
i have some in a squeeze bottle that came from maint guy where I used to work. It has always worked for me. Stuck seat posts, stuck aluminum quill stems all were removed using Kroil.
It is my "go to" for that kind of stuff. It has been handy stuff to have for lots of stuck stuff.
Good luck.
12-20-21, 03:40 PM
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Kroil is my go-to stuff, followed closely by PB Blaster. Both need to be given time (and possible reapplications) to work, plus some judicious hammer blows to get it started creeping into those micron-sized crevices. No need to beat it, you just want to make it "ring" with light taps. Then wait overnight or longer. A few sharp raps at intervals after applying more juice will keep the process progressing.
12-20-21, 05:03 PM
#11
Junior Member
As the post title is about Kroil, that's as far as I go. Yes, for me Kroil is my goto for 30 years. I don't know what's in it but to me it does smell of wintergreen and methyl salicylate has been an old school rust buster since before grandad. Kroil used to be industrial use only because of expense and we were told a little goes a long way so no slathering of it is needed. Corrosion on aluminum, and sometimes stainless, are tough nuts. Pistons to seat posts, the aluminum oxide is hard and sharp and embedment leads to galling and seizing. Good penetrant and patience are what works.
12-20-21, 08:13 PM
#12
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Machinist's Workshop magazine actually tested penetrates for break out torque on rusted nuts. Significant results!
*They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrates with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.*
*Penetrating oil ..... Average load*
None ...................... 516 pounds
WD-40 ................... 238 pounds
PB Blaster .............. 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ......... 127 pounds
Kano Kroil .............. 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix........53 pounds
Plain ole brake fluid.
Marvel Mystery Oil works well also.
*The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone*
*Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this one particular test.
*They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrates with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.*
*Penetrating oil ..... Average load*
None ...................... 516 pounds
WD-40 ................... 238 pounds
PB Blaster .............. 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ......... 127 pounds
Kano Kroil .............. 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix........53 pounds
Plain ole brake fluid.
Marvel Mystery Oil works well also.
*The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone*
*Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this one particular test.
I know that there has been some discussion on HSM about penetrating oils. I just read this on Jon at Homemade Tools and wondered if any of you have tried this.Homemade Penetrating Oil
For All of you Mechanic's and Self doer’s out there.
Penetrating Oil - interesting
This was in one of the Military Vehicle Club newsletters
Homemade Penetrating Oil
For All of you Mechanic's and Self doer’s out there.
Penetrating Oil - interesting
This was in one of the Military Vehicle Club newsletters
Here is an interesting finding on Penetrating Oils
Recently “Machinist Workshop Magazine” did a test on penetrating oils. Using nuts and
bolts that they ‘scientifically rusted’ to a uniform degree by soaking in salt water, they then
tested the break-out torque required to loosen the nuts. They treated the nuts with a variety
of penetrants and measured the torque required to loosen them.
This is what they came up with:
Nothing: 516 lbs
WD-40: 238 lbs;
PB Blaster: 214 lbs;
Liquid Wrench: 127 lbs,
Kano Kroil: 106 lbs
(ATF)/Acetone mix (50/50): 50 lbs.
This last “shop brew” of 50% automatic transmission fluid and 50% acetone appears to beat
out the commercially prepared products costing far more.
For All of you Mechanic's and Self doer’s out there.
Penetrating Oil - interesting
This was in one of the Military Vehicle Club newsletters
Homemade Penetrating Oil
For All of you Mechanic's and Self doer’s out there.
Penetrating Oil - interesting
This was in one of the Military Vehicle Club newsletters
Here is an interesting finding on Penetrating Oils
Recently “Machinist Workshop Magazine” did a test on penetrating oils. Using nuts and
bolts that they ‘scientifically rusted’ to a uniform degree by soaking in salt water, they then
tested the break-out torque required to loosen the nuts. They treated the nuts with a variety
of penetrants and measured the torque required to loosen them.
This is what they came up with:
Nothing: 516 lbs
WD-40: 238 lbs;
PB Blaster: 214 lbs;
Liquid Wrench: 127 lbs,
Kano Kroil: 106 lbs
(ATF)/Acetone mix (50/50): 50 lbs.
This last “shop brew” of 50% automatic transmission fluid and 50% acetone appears to beat
out the commercially prepared products costing far more.
...from a machinist forum
I have shamelessly copied this from another site: *Don't forget the April 2007 "Machinist's Workshop" magazine comparison test.* ** *They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.* ** *Penetrating oil ..... Average load* None ..................... 516 pounds WD-40 .................. 238 pounds PB Blaster ............. 214 pounds Liquid Wrench ..... 127 pounds Kano Kroil ............ 106 pounds ATF-Acetone mix....53 pounds *The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50% acetone - 50% automatic transmission fluid.* *Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this one particular test. Our local machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now use it with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price. * What is this? Replacing marketing hype and the way it has always been done with test data? They didn't test spray silicone oil. I like it as a non gumming lube, and go ahead and use the same thing as penetrating oil. Heat and quench works. For a time I worked in a brake shop. We salvaged many calipers with a broken bleed screw with what the owner called the heat wrench. It is much easier to reach for the torch before you bust something off. Out in the field, a little gas may help. A good hammering does too. I usually give things a squirt of silicone and then hammer away.
).
.
.
How to Make Penetrating Oil
^^^these guys say that regular old vegetable oil (like Canola), mixed with acetone at about 70/30 works pretty well.
Personally, I have been using acetone/ATF mixed at about 50-50 for maybe ten years now. At the bike co-op, where we got a huge array of testing material in the way of neglected bikes, it worked better than anything, including PB blaster, Kroil, Freeze Off, and Liquid Wrench...all of which we had on hand.
But frozen seat posts can be quite frozen. So it might not do the job alone, depending on how much post is in the seat tube and corrosion bonded, etc.
If you can alternately torch heat the post to expand it, then used something like Freeze Off to chill it, increasing the thermal shock, that helps. But the single most effective thing in doing this operation is to resign yourself to trashing the post, and grab the top of it in a large, firmly mounted bench vise, and twist the frame off the post with another person to assist you. One person twists, the other pulls on the frame to get it to move off the post.
I've done a couple dozen of these extractions (maybe more), and we only busted one frame. There was another one that never did come out...the frame would twist but not move upward off the post. I think there ws some kind of ridge of corrosion or something inside the seat tube.
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12-20-21, 10:11 PM
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When out of my PB-Blaster, I have successfully used Automatic Transmission Fluid. I have mixed it with Denatured alcohol, Acetone (fingernail polish remover), and even in a pinch a little gasoline. It appears to dissolve some of the oxidation on aluminum parts given time. It also lubricates some...
It appears that over time my chest of POL (Petroleum Oils Lubricants) is getting quite small and Automatic Transmission Fluid is having more and more uses...
It appears that over time my chest of POL (Petroleum Oils Lubricants) is getting quite small and Automatic Transmission Fluid is having more and more uses...
However, penetrating oil isn’t the thing to use for a seized post anyway. The post isn’t seized because of lack of lubrication. The oxidation salts have a higher volume than the aluminum. This increase in diameter is what causes the post to seize. Brute force can break the oxidation layer if it isn’t too far gone.
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
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Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
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12-20-21, 10:59 PM
#14
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12-21-21, 08:48 AM
#15
Senior Member
No “penetrating oil” is going to dissolve aluminum oxidation (nor iron oxidation for that matter). Not much dissolves aluminum oxide easily. You can do it with high concentrations of sodium hydroxide but the temperature needs to be jacked to around 200°C. The unoxidized aluminum will dissolve at a much lower temperature and much lower sodium hydroxide concentration. That’s why ammonia or sodium hydroxide work…they dissolve the aluminum.
However, penetrating oil isn’t the thing to use for a seized post anyway. The post isn’t seized because of lack of lubrication. The oxidation salts have a higher volume than the aluminum. This increase in diameter is what causes the post to seize. Brute force can break the oxidation layer if it isn’t too far gone.
However, penetrating oil isn’t the thing to use for a seized post anyway. The post isn’t seized because of lack of lubrication. The oxidation salts have a higher volume than the aluminum. This increase in diameter is what causes the post to seize. Brute force can break the oxidation layer if it isn’t too far gone.
12-22-21, 01:15 PM
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I'm holding off on the expensive Kroil for now. One of the links posted showed Liquid Wrench to be almost as effective and 20% of the price. And ATF/Acetone to be much better than both. Regardless, the next step will be to remove the wheels and saddle and use my big bench vice. And if that doesn't work, maybe I will remove the cranks and soak from the inside. The pro mechanic that unstuck my Kona did that. But I would certainly like to avoid.
There is a split in the seat tube underneath the seatpost clamp (which is removable). I tapped the frame sideways there with a hammer and screwdriver and the steel separated from the post without too much force.
