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Advice please

Old 07-14-22, 05:30 PM
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linberl
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Advice please

I had my first rear tire flat (hub motor). I decided to fix it myself (I have repaired tons of QR flats but no axle nut flats). I didn't realize I should loosen the nuts but leave them on the axle, so in removing the wheel I was not positive if I might have lost washers or spacers. I know, my bad. Since I was having a heck of a time remounting the wheel into the dropouts I decided to call the Mobile Bike folks I've used before to do it and show me any tips or tricks they have. My illness affects my muscles and I have to figure out different ways to do things. Anyway, they came and mounted the wheel. He said there were no other spacers or washers needed and I didn't lose any. Fast forward I have been riding 2 days now and there is the slightest grinding noise from the front der when I pedal and after I ride a while the chain just moves on its own to one side of the big chain ring cog or the other! The left shifter is kind of a like a friction shifter, with dashes instead of just a "1, 2, 3" marking. When I see the chain start to go, and feel it in my feet, I am shifting back one or two dashes to get it back centered on the chain. The trike did NOT do this before the flat repair; it rode perfectly and was silent. Any idea what causes it to shift itself off the big cog up front all by itself? Any fix ideas? TIA.
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Old 07-14-22, 08:03 PM
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You have more than enough posts to post a picture. The advice you get will depend upon what type and brand of shifter you are talking about. If it is a grip shifter it should not jump from one gear to another as there are pawls and indents inside the shifter that keep the shift in each position. If it is a bar end shifter you may only need to tighten up on the shifter. If that is the case, go to the Park Tool Website and look up "Bar End Shifter Service". The latter is far simpler than dealing with grip shifters. Takes seconds to fix.
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Old 07-14-22, 08:41 PM
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The problem isn't the shifter, I was just explaining that it is like a friction shifter so that's how I can reverse the chain shifting off the ring incrementally. Without touching the shifter, if I ride a mile or so the chain will visibly move left (sometimes right) of the big cog on my triple front. I can stop it by decrementing or incrementing the shifter slightly. What I don't understand is what could make the chain move out of line on its own? I pulled on the cranks and they are tight, and this wasn't happening before the mechanic reinstalled the rear hub motor wheel.
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Old 07-15-22, 07:32 AM
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It sounds like the front shifter is a little loose either the lever or the cable clamp - and is slipping. It had nothing to do with the recent flat tire.
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Old 07-15-22, 08:42 AM
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It is really no mystery as to why a chain would move across the chainrings. It all depends upon the position of the front dérailleur cage in relation to the chain. Front derailleurs are designed with a spring that always moves the derailleur to the smallest chainring if tension is released on the cable. It only moves if more cable is released. That has to be what is happening in your case. It takes a fair amount of force to overcome the action of this spring. Try moving it with your hand.

All of my trikes have had triple chainrings which were actuated by a friction type bar end shifter. There is a way to increase the amount of friction on the shifter so that it stays in gear. If you look at the shifters shown here you will see the screw heads in the left side of the picture. You tighten those just enough so that it does not slip and so that you can still change gears easily. With bar ends, it is not rocket science. If that does not work, then you need to look elsewhere to see what could be releasing cable to make the derailleur move.
Here is a clear picture of the bar end shifters I use https://www.bigandtallbike.com/Shima...rs_p_9389.html
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Old 07-15-22, 09:51 AM
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So mine doesn't have bar end shifters, it is a grip shift. I guess I don't understand how the shifting cable would change tension if I don't touch it? I also was a bit confused when he put the rear wheel back on and then had to
completely readjust the settings on the rear der. At least with my previous 2 wheelers, albeit none with a hub motor, taking off the rear wheel and then replacing never required adjusting the shifting. With the trike, he
had to completely reset all the shifting intervals and stops on the rear der. I guess I am really concerned that he may not have assembled it correctly - or at least the way it was originally. I "thought" there was a spacer and washer
that I lost (in my defense, I had put my old dog to sleep the day before and was not very focused when I pulled the wheel). The company that installed the hub motor system told me to be sure "they note where the spacers go" if
I have a shop change the rear tire. When the mechanic reassembled it, each side of the axle had 1 washer, 1 torque washer and 1 axle nut. Is it possible I did lose some bits and that is causing a misalignment which is causing
the chain rub on the front der and the movement of the chain off the cog? This is what concerns me the most, as it would have long term consequences on the system I suppose. If that's not possible, then I guess maybe it's the
shifter calble, although the movement is toward the outside of the big cog, not toward the smaller ones. I can pedal and see the chain go from having a even gap between the big cog and the chain protector disc, then the chain
starts to climb the cog at an angle and the gap disappears. If I don't shift it back a tiny bit, then it feels like it starts to slip. Does that make any sense? I'm trying to understand because I have 30 days warranty on the work the
guy did and want to be sure it's working right before that time is up. There are NO shops around me that will work on a recumbent, amazingly, and the mobile service is a big flat fee regardless of the problem.
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Old 07-16-22, 09:44 AM
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Well, it seems to have settled down, maybe it just needed time to groove back in. It slipped once during my ride yesterday and I caught it. However, I an also now thinking about something like the Efneo or Schlumpf for the front der. Not only would it improve the chain thing, but at least with the schlumpf it would give me more top range - when I use my e-assist I run out of higher gears pretty quickly (smallest cog is 11, chainring is 50). It wouldn't be cheap, but this is my car, so that makes a difference. The Efneo would give me much more top end, 38T/54T/68T, and it's more affordable. GTRO for trike – Efneo 3-speed front bicycle Gearbox

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Old 07-25-22, 10:06 PM
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So I read every post and part of the problem is the lack of specific terminology (if not pictures) in the o.p. but some of the respondents have overlooked the o.p. stating that the current derailleur issues did not exist before the flat tire. I would be all over that factoid. I don't know about the newest axle technolgies but even vertical dropouts allow crooked installation of a wheel. I don't believe the o.p. said the chain is actually coming OFF the active chainring during its oscillations but that seems to be the conclusion of at least two respondents. I hat e to say 'I told you so' but I was skeptical about the Trident for what you needed and now you want to consider a drivetrain upgrade that will cost more than your entire trike (without e-assist). Even the Efneo. I don't know how much they are, but I doubt they are priced like square taper triple cranks. Don't do it. You'd never be able to sell it for what you invested. A Sturmey-Archer CS-RF3 (RK3 if disc) does exactly what the IGH cranksets do and retail under $100. You'll need to get it built into your rear rim and it probably will need new spokes.

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Old 07-26-22, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
So I read every post and part of the problem is the lack of specific terminology (if not pictures) in the o.p. but some of the respondents have overlooked the o.p. stating that the current derailleur issues did not exist before the flat tire. I would be all over that factoid. I don't know about the newest axle technolgies but even vertical dropouts allow crooked installation of a wheel. I don't believe the o.p. said the chain is actually coming OFF the active chainring during its oscillations but that seems to be the conclusion of at least two respondents. I hat e to say 'I told you so' but I was skeptical about the Trident for what you needed and now you want to consider a drivetrain upgrade that will cost more than your entire trike (without e-assist). Even the Efneo. I don't know how much they are, but I doubt they are priced like square taper triple cranks. Don't do it. You'd never be able to sell it for what you invested. A Sturmey-Archer CS-RF3 (RK3 if disc) does exactly what the IGH cranksets do and retail under $100. You'll need to get it built into your rear rim and it probably will need new spokes.
The problem is pretty much resolved with some additional adjustments. There's nothing wrong with the Trident, it's a perfectly fine trike. There's just a tiny bit of noise and the guy who installed my e-assist said that's because he took the 8 speed cassette off and put on a wheel with a 7 speed so the chainline is not quite perfect (I called him about this). My interest in the Efneo (which is only five hundred bucks, 1/3 of the cost of the trike without assist) is partly to be able to shift while stopped, and also to get a bigger gear range because when I ride with assist I can top out. Neither of those has anything to do with it being a Trident trike, lol, and would have been the same issues with any other brand. I don't want a rear solution, that's not going to address these issues. I don't care about getting back what I put into it; it's not an investment It's my car - literally - and no one expects to get anything close to what they paid for a used car. I'm very happy with it and just would like to be able to use the higher levels of assist without spinning out and would like to be able to shift at stops when I forget to do it ahead of time. It's absolutely worth $500 to me to be able to do that and there's a $50 off deal, too.
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Old 07-26-22, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
The problem is pretty much resolved with some additional adjustments. There's nothing wrong with the Trident, it's a perfectly fine trike. There's just a tiny bit of noise and the guy who installed my e-assist said that's because he took the 8 speed cassette off and put on a wheel with a 7 speed so the chainline is not quite perfect (I called him about this). My interest in the Efneo (which is only five hundred bucks, 1/3 of the cost of the trike without assist) is partly to be able to shift while stopped, and also to get a bigger gear range because when I ride with assist I can top out. Neither of those has anything to do with it being a Trident trike, lol, and would have been the same issues with any other brand. I don't want a rear solution, that's not going to address these issues. I don't care about getting back what I put into it; it's not an investment It's my car - literally - and no one expects to get anything close to what they paid for a used car. I'm very happy with it and just would like to be able to use the higher levels of assist without spinning out and would like to be able to shift at stops when I forget to do it ahead of time. It's absolutely worth $500 to me to be able to do that and there's a $50 off deal, too.
All noted. I will defer to your actual possession of a Trident trike as to its worth to you. However, since you quoted prices. Let me just leave some additional info and then I will go away. Just so you know, the Sturmey-Archer rear end solution DOES allow shifting of the IGH at stops. All S-A have done is combined the crankset IGH (Efneo) inside the rear hub. Now it is much smaller, weighs less, and costs 1/5 the price. Even with wheel building you can come out at 1/4 the price of a front end solution. Don't take my word for it, every front line manufacturer from Bike Friday, to Greenspeed, to HPV, when they need the range of a Road Triple in a 20" wheel size they use an IGH/Cassette hybrid rear hub. The former go to was the SRAM Dual-Drive but they were discontinued. Not due to any lack of consumer satisfaction.
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Old 07-26-22, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
All noted. I will defer to your actual possession of a Trident trike as to its worth to you. However, since you quoted prices. Let me just leave some additional info and then I will go away. Just so you know, the Sturmey-Archer rear end solution DOES allow shifting of the IGH at stops. All S-A have done is combined the crankset IGH (Efneo) inside the rear hub. Now it is much smaller, weighs less, and costs 1/5 the price. Even with wheel building you can come out at 1/4 the price of a front end solution. Don't take my word for it, every front line manufacturer from Bike Friday, to Greenspeed, to HPV, when they need the range of a Road Triple in a 20" wheel size they use an IGH/Cassette hybrid rear hub. The former go to was the SRAM Dual-Drive but they were discontinued. Not due to any lack of consumer satisfaction.
My rear wheel is a hub motor wheel. That would I assume substantially complicate things. Also, having had one rear flat and finding out what a royal pain it is to change it, I am not looking at solutions that would complicate that, lol. Hard to believe it would cost less than $125 to get the SA and have it installed on my trike. It costs that much just for a shop to look at a bike in the Bay Area! I can install the Efneo myself, it's super easy and I have the simple tools needed, and it's $450 out the door (unless I can snag one of their $100 off coupons). It's also easily transferred to another bike, whether trike or DF, and the original cranks/chainring set can be replaced. So if in the future I decide to get a different trike (the only reason I can see doing that now is for a substantial weight drop for transport) I could re-use it, along with my 20" hub motor wheel (I have the original wheel to put back on the trident, which I would then sell stock). I do appreciate all the insight, though.
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