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Why don't people want to pedal anymore?

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Why don't people want to pedal anymore?

Old 09-16-22, 07:00 PM
  #226  
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Why all the bad-mouthing of sweating? Normal physiologic response to exercise. I rode to work almost everyday for 8 years while living in Atlanta and was never threatened with termination for being sweaty upon arrival in the morning.
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Old 09-16-22, 10:52 PM
  #227  
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Why don’t people want to walk any more? Why do they need bikes, trains, planes and automobiles?

Are people just fat and lazy?
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Old 09-17-22, 04:15 AM
  #228  
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I spent a long time commuting in a hot climate, and seating is fine .... what gets scary is when you stop sweating.

However, I found that it took 30-45 minutes to fully cool down, during which time I would still be sweating because my core temp/blood temp was high. Showering or toweling off during that period would be worthless ... a temporary measure which would need repeating.

This meant that if I needed to be presentable I needed to show up for work almost an hour early ... which limited my job options or extended my working day.
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Old 09-17-22, 07:18 AM
  #229  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
I’m currently pedaling across Pennsylvania fully loaded. Currently in Howard. I’m scheduled to arrive home in Philly on Sunday. Hopefully I’ll be back in time for the second half of the game.

No motor for me.
Well see... you could have done an ebike ride and thrown in the state of ohio as well :-)
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Old 09-17-22, 08:05 AM
  #230  
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echoing folks who just want to encourage anyone getting out on a bike, regardless of a motor or not.
in montreal, the Biki system here has e-bike options and they really drive me nuts, because its a lot of newbie cyclist wreaking havoc on the city bike paths on giant bikes that go WAY too fast for their road-handling skills, but still i do love to see folks making the effort to ride places instead of driving.

plus it's more accessible for people with aging bodies, chronic pain, etc. increased accessibility can never be a bad thing in my books.
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Old 09-17-22, 09:18 AM
  #231  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
So since the motor was turned off 90% of the time, it sounds like you have good fitness. Which then begs the question of why are you riding an e-bike?

With the motor turned on for only 10% of that ride I'm sure you could have done the whole thing without e-assist because the bike would be lighter offsetting how much harder you had to push for that 10%.
one of the constant themes in this discussion is the assumption that someone knows enough about someone else's situation to deem what they need or don't need. there may be people who *need* to arrive at work fully clothed, not sweaty, and rested. excellent use of an ebike on a higher power setting, far less environmental footprint than a car, and hey, one less person who might kill you on your bike. there may be people with knee, hip, or other musculoskeletal injuries that limit their total output. great use case for an ebike on lower power settings on the flats and higher on the climbs. again, another person out of a car.

in my case, i have a heart rhythm condition, an implanted defibrillator, reduced RV heart function, and a raft of medications that mean i need to keep a very close eye on my level of exertion. going for a long ride (especially on a hot or windy day) and finding myself in a bad situation health-wise far from home facing a huge hill with vehicle traffic without a motor is not an option. i do have pretty good endurance and peak power for short periods of time, and as i've grown more confident with cycling i do a lot of fairly long rides with a non e-bike, but a new route, a tough day, a very tight schedule, a tight commute (i live in san francisco, 20% grades all around home), potentially bad weather conditions, or just a day when my heart has decided to beat irregularly and the ebike is the answer.

everyone's situations are different. why do some traditional cyclists seem to be more offended by ebikes than cars? imagine how much safer and better the roads would be if every other car was a person on an ebike. and how much less oil we'd use, how much less pollution, etc. the all-or-nothing approach to shaming everyone into doing all the work of their commute, errands, or even just pleasure/exercise rides is clearly not working.
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Old 09-17-22, 07:08 PM
  #232  
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Originally Posted by mschwett View Post
everyone's situations are different. why do some traditional cyclists seem to be more offended by ebikes than cars?
A lot of Traditional Cyclists take the act of riding a bicycle very seriously; you have to go and do your miles; “The Work is the Reward” (Puritans, again, lol)
E-bikes get people out riding distances and destinations who otherwise might not have attempted on an bike, “because it’s too much work”

If you are a utility rider, mixing it up with traffic, I get that you have to have a certain physical capacity and attitude that lets you do these kinds of rides comfortably and safely. On a velo, you tend to develop both as you progress; as you get more capable on the bike, you’re more comfortable in those environments.

E-bikes short-circuit that somewhat; they give the neophyte rider more speed and endurance but not the handling skills or situational awareness that you get from putting the miles in.
Right now, you’ve got a boom in new riders who have more capability than skill. It’s also the end of summer, so as the weather cools off, you’re going to see a lot of the casual riders going back inside.
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Old 09-17-22, 07:12 PM
  #233  
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Originally Posted by Ironfish653 View Post
A lot of Traditional Cyclists take the act of riding a bicycle very seriously; you have to go and do your miles; “The Work is the Reward” (Puritans, again, lol)
E-bikes get people out riding distances and destinations who otherwise might not have attempted on an bike, “because it’s too much work”

If you are a utility rider, mixing it up with traffic, I get that you have to have a certain physical capacity and attitude that lets you do these kinds of rides comfortably and safely. On a velo, you tend to develop both as you progress; as you get more capable on the bike, you’re more comfortable in those environments.

E-bikes short-circuit that somewhat; they give the neophyte rider more speed and endurance but not the handling skills or situational awareness that you get from putting the miles in.
Right now, you’ve got a boom in new riders who have more capability than skill. It’s also the end of summer, so as the weather cools off, you’re going to see a lot of the casual riders going back inside.
You hit the nail on the head. Well put--more capability than skill, just add their lack of road etiquette and you quickly understand why so many people get upset. It's not the bike.
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Old 09-17-22, 07:46 PM
  #234  
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Originally Posted by SpedFast View Post
You hit the nail on the head. Well put--more capability than skill, just add their lack of road etiquette and you quickly understand why so many people get upset. It's not the bike.
i get the concept…. but is anyone seriously thinking that an inexperienced rider on an ebike is more detrimental to a traditional cyclist than another car on the road? I’ve yet to hear of an eBike killing a cyclist on a regular bike.
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Old 09-17-22, 08:30 PM
  #235  
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Originally Posted by mschwett View Post
I’ve yet to hear of an eBike killing a cyclist on a regular bike.
Obviously a car is a great potential danger than an e-bike but an idiot on an e-bike could kill another rider, just like an idiot on a regular bike could. Google "pedestrian killed by e-bike".

Today I went to my club ride and a woman I used to ride with was there but she was doing a longer, hillier ride than I was. She said she wished I would get an e-bike because she missed riding with me. I thought that was a very sweet thing for her to say because that's the only way I could ride with her.
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Old 09-17-22, 08:35 PM
  #236  
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
Obviously a car is a great potential danger than an e-bike but an idiot on an e-bike could kill another rider, just like an idiot on a regular bike could. Google "pedestrian killed by e-bike".

Today I went to my club ride and a woman I used to ride with was there but she was doing a longer, hillier ride than I was. She said she wished I would get an e-bike because she missed riding with me. I thought that was a very sweet thing for her to say because that's the only way I could ride with her.
i’m not the fastest rider on the road, by a longshot, but i’m usually passing people rather than being passed. today on the return leg of a slightly slower than usual ride (not on an e-bike, just a bike bike) a woman absolutely smoked past me up a hill. i mean… not a little faster. twice as fast?!? i suppose if i had riding buddies like that i’d definitely be on an e-bike at all times 😂

i did catch her after the downhill, some flats, and a red light. and then when it turned green, she was over the horizon in a minute or so. 💨
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Old 09-17-22, 08:52 PM
  #237  
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Originally Posted by mschwett View Post
i’m not the fastest rider on the road, by a longshot, but i’m usually passing people rather than being passed. today on the return leg of a slightly slower than usual ride (not on an e-bike, just a bike bike) a woman absolutely smoked past me up a hill. i mean… not a little faster. twice as fast?!? i suppose if i had riding buddies like that i’d definitely be on an e-bike at all times 😂

i did catch her after the downhill, some flats, and a red light. and then when it turned green, she was over the horizon in a minute or so. 💨
The one I mentioned is like that, she's a great climber. There is a climbing race put on as a charity event and she finished 3rd woman and 36th overall, out of 100 riders including some local pros. 9500 feet in 75 miles.
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Old 09-17-22, 09:05 PM
  #238  
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Another ‘today’ story. Was riding up a lake shore when Varia alerted me to an approaching something. Then I heard an electric whine and immediately knew what was starting to overtake me. A guy on a Specialized e-road bike was out of the saddle hammering away to pass me. Fine. I was running about 19.

Don’t know if he tired out after his epic pass or was low on battery but I took him on the next hill and dropped him like a rock. If he was fully charged he should have been able to easily take me. Very weird.
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Old 09-17-22, 10:39 PM
  #239  
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Originally Posted by mschwett View Post
why do some traditional cyclists seem to be more offended by ebikes than cars?
Because e-bikes occupy the same space as conventional bikes. And being comparable to cars isn't exactly good news.

I'm not "offended," because that suggests a social conflict that I haven't experienced. Instead, I'd say that I'm "alert" to things that change the dynamics of cycling, for better or worse.

E-bikes are expected to use cycling infrastructure, such as bike paths and lanes. So the behavior of e-cyclists becomes my problem if they don't coexist with other users. Not that I have a problem with it right now. E-bikes are gaining popularity in my locale, but I've adopted a "wait and see" attitude. For now, I've noticed some behaviors that I hope will moderate as new e-cyclists gain experience with their machines. I've roughly divided the e-cyclists into two categories: Commuters and leisure riders. The commuters are all about speed, but they also tend to pick up the "rules" of safe and courteous cycling pretty quickly. The leisure riders tend to be quite cautious, but also a bit wobbly, and I give them a lot of clearance, especially if they're riding in groups.

About fitness, of course individual situations vary, but at the same time, our entire society faces a fitness crisis, and a conventional bike is already close to the lowest intensity form of exercise possible. Wanting to encourage people to be more active, without discouraging those who have special needs, is always a matter of compromise. Given my own sluggish pace on a bike, I'm in no position to criticize anybody's fitness regimen.

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Old 09-17-22, 10:53 PM
  #240  
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Originally Posted by Gresp15C View Post
Because e-bikes occupy the same space as conventional bikes. And being comparable to cars isn't exactly good news.

I'm not "offended," because that suggests a social conflict that I haven't experienced. Instead, I'd say that I'm "alert" to things that change the dynamics of cycling, for better or worse.

E-bikes are expected to use cycling infrastructure, such as bike paths and lanes. So the behavior of e-cyclists becomes my problem if they don't coexist with other users. Not that I have a problem with it right now. E-bikes are gaining popularity in my locale, but I've adopted a "wait and see" attitude. For now, I've noticed some behaviors that I hope will moderate as new e-cyclists gain experience with their machines. I've roughly divided the e-cyclists into two categories: Commuters and leisure riders. The commuters are all about speed, but they also tend to pick up the "rules" of safe and courteous cycling pretty quickly. The leisure riders tend to be quite cautious, but also a bit wobbly, and I give them a lot of clearance, especially if they're riding in groups.
The problem here is you are talking about e-bikers when the commuter/leisure rider could apply to a lot of regular cyclists as well. Also plenty of roadies using say a multi use path for their training. I see cyclists of all kinds both good and not causing issues or potential issues and those that are causing issues or could easily cause issues. However we have a worse problem is actual motor vehicles like cars, trucks, scooters, motorcycles...I would much rather have a bunch of self absorbed cyclists than a car. At least I have a better chance with the cyclists than with the car.

Being aware is important just in general always in life. It always bothers me the lack of spatial awareness people have. The new technology we keep using doesn't help but it was bad before smart phones were as ubiquitous. People are cheap so they won't even pay attention (badum tiss).
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Old 09-18-22, 04:24 AM
  #241  
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I say again .... people being stupid in heavy traffic (i.e. regular commuters) will likely get pummeled by the Fist of Darwin if they ride stupid often enough.

When I was young and thought I was indestructible and basically the King of the Universe .... I got a few sharp slaps that made me change my riding habits in a more survival-oriented direction. I don't think the laws of the road, of physics, or the universe in general have changed all that much, and butthead behavior will still end up demonstrating to stupid abusers that cars hit harder.

It is generally the rec riders who can preserve the state of entitlement longer, because they are having near-collisions with softer targets.

IMO.

Wait until Strava's electric bike category gets popular.
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Old 09-18-22, 05:48 AM
  #242  
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No really, what does 10 watts per hour mean?

A watt is one joule per second—it's a unit of energy over time. Talking about watts per <unit of time> is nonsensical.
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Old 09-18-22, 10:11 AM
  #243  
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Originally Posted by ilchymis View Post
No really, what does 10 watts per hour mean?

A watt is one joule per second—it's a unit of energy over time. Talking about watts per <unit of time> is nonsensical.
Let it go.
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Old 09-18-22, 10:36 AM
  #244  
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Originally Posted by ilchymis View Post
No really, what does 10 watts per hour mean?

A watt is one joule per second—it's a unit of energy over time. Talking about watts per <unit of time> is nonsensical.
i think everyone understood the intent there, but yes, stated correctly energy usage averaged 10 watts for a period of 9 hours. “per” vs “for,” a grievous mistake.

i’m sure you know battery capacity is usually reported as watt hours, in this case 320. 320 watts for an hour, 32 watts for 10 hours, etc.
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Old 09-18-22, 01:49 PM
  #245  
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Originally Posted by ilchymis View Post
No really, what does 10 watts per hour mean?

A watt is one joule per second—it's a unit of energy over time. Talking about watts per <unit of time> is nonsensical.
It's not really nonsensical. Take for example acceleration, which is distance per hour per hour, likewise watts per hour make sense when talking for example about an increase in power over time, ie. Delta (Power) / Delta (Time)
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Old 09-18-22, 07:08 PM
  #246  
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This is an interesting thread, to me at least. Society is currently heading toward all electric vehicles. Except that they're really expensive and people already have fossil fuel cars, so there's currently no sufficient incentive to junk them and buy electric. E-bikes would be for many people the perfect solution. Would be, but isn't because our infrastructure isn't sufficiently politically flexible to do what would need to be done: basically fenced and guarded bike parking lots, for both e and conventional bikes plus 4-lane streets with separated e and conventional bike lanes both directions in the inner cities. It'll happen, but it'll take too long. I'm saying that the advent of e-bikes is really welcome and necessary.

This thread has been mostly about what's known as a "gear conflict." Happens everywhere, fishing, hiking, MTBing, dirt biking for example. The need is to separate the differing gear groups, either by time or geographically. So far this hasn't been a big enough thing to catch anyone's attention other than ours. I can pretty much guarantee that it will though. Meanwhile, if you don't like riding near e-bikes, ride on the road. Cyclists who ride on the road experience a much lower accident rate than those who ride on MUPS. OTOH, road cyclist injuries are more severe. I prefer to ride on the road when and wherever possible.

There's a road near here with a parallel MUP. The road is crazy busy and has no shoulder whatsoever. So I ride the MUP for a couple miles there, just because that's the only way to access a world of low traffic rural roads. My wife has had two accidents on this MUP, both time with children who darted in front of her bike. Luckily only she was slightly injured. Adults with children seem to equate a MUP with their driveway back home.

In my riding group, some people have aged out of being able to keep up even with geezers like my wife and I on our tandem, and have gone to pedal-assist e-bikes. With most of them, one can't really tell that they're using an e-bike. There is one rather aggressive guy though, whom I've had to ban from riding with the fast group because he's too disruptive and thus dangerous. On that MUP, I don't see many e-bikes which particularly differ from the usual slower bike riders. We just pass them like anyone else. Evidently the throttle bikes aren't that popular around here, TG.

And no, e-bikes definitely do not give the same workout that a road bike can give. The point of riding a road bike is after all, pain. If one avoids pain, one also avoids growth, whether physical, mental, or spiritual. I realize that may not be a universal value, but among the cyclists with whom I have ridden, it does seem to be. There's always that hill that's steeper than one wishes it were. That's where the good stuff happens. If one were able to simply thumb the assist lever . . .
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Old 09-18-22, 07:29 PM
  #247  
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Originally Posted by Ironfish653 View Post
You guys are all a bunch grumpy Puritans.
Not every time you get on a bike has to be a dedicated workout and festival of suffering.

Sure, I do focused workouts on my bike ( I also run and lift weights, too) but I like using a bike to get around, too. You can get farther, faster than you can on foot, but also get to places that you can’t reach by car, either. (and less hassle than finding parking)

If the only reason you ride a bike is “to do X miles “ then, yeah, I can see how you’d feel like an e-bike is ‘cheating’.
Recreation or transportation, though, doesn’t need to be a workout; I think the e-bike gets a lot of people out of their cars for those shorter trips where a regular bike would feel like too much work.
Sometimes you just want to go out and enjoy the scenery.
This is a straw man. No one here is saying that "ebikes are ALWAYS cheating" or that "the ONLY valid type of cycling is a suffer fest" or that "you CAN'T use a bike to just get around/have fun/see scenery". In fact, people here have been very clear that they agree with you on all of your points.
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Old 09-18-22, 07:35 PM
  #248  
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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN1YT0MV

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Old 09-18-22, 11:43 PM
  #249  
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
This is a straw man. No one here is saying that "ebikes are ALWAYS cheating" or that "the ONLY valid type of cycling is a suffer fest" or that "you CAN'T use a bike to just get around/have fun/see scenery". In fact, people here have been very clear that they agree with you on all of your points.
Ok, see here I said: "A lot of Traditional Cyclists take the act of riding a bicycle very seriously"

​​​​​​Most of us understand that while we take cycling seriously (most of the time) not everyone does.
The Very Serious Cyclists who take umbrage that not everyone on a bike has the same views as them are the ones I called Grumpy Puritans.


These guys get it, and played along:
So far, everyone else has, too. Until now.

Originally Posted by boozergut View Post
Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
Hello, my name is RSBob and I’m a grumpy Puritans.
Thanks for playing, guys!

Last edited by Ironfish653; 09-18-22 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 09-19-22, 06:58 AM
  #250  
Herzlos
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
I have thought about buying an e-bike for commuting to work so I don't arrive sweaty. But I haven't pulled the trigger due to a house remodeling project sucking my $$ right now. Until then I'll keep driving my gas guzzling V-8 truck 2 miles to work every day.
2 miles is 12 minutes @ 10m/h, you should be able to do that on a regular bike without getting sweaty assuming any reasonable level of fitness and are taking it easy.
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