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Will 25c tires wear out faster versus 28c for hard riding?

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Will 25c tires wear out faster versus 28c for hard riding?

Old 09-21-22, 10:37 AM
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jonathanf2
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Will 25c tires wear out faster versus 28c for hard riding?

I've been trying out different tire sizes and I find that I much prefer 25c slicks as my go-to size after trying 30c, 28c and 25c tires. I was a little skeptical riding them at first, but now I find them the most fun to ride with excellent handling characteristics and my carbon frame/wheels/bars seem to dampen the bumps adequately. 25c also has less side-to-side squish especially for out of saddle climbing and it's quite noticeable when I mash the pedals on final climb sprints.

Anyways, due to all the uphill/downhill riding I'm doing, I'm wondering if the higher PSI will eventually put more wear on tires versus a lower PSI 28c or 30c tire? I do notice my speed and cornering to be much faster, which also requires harder braking. Should anticipate shorter tire life especially for the my riding style and if so have back up tires in reserve or rotate my wheelsets? Thanks for any info!
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Old 09-21-22, 11:02 AM
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The harder you ride, the faster your tires wear, especially braking and climbing if you put out a lot of power. The contact patch on 25s will be narrower than on wider tires, so yes, the rear will show a center flat earlier, etc. There's less rubber, so wear is concentrated in a smaller area. That said, around here I never wear my tires out. They always get cut up before that happens.

I always have at least one set of new tires in the spares tote.
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Old 09-21-22, 11:48 AM
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If your budget for tires depends on the difference in how long 25mm last compared to 28mm wide tires, then maybe your budget is too tight!

Seriously, I doubt that it is very much if any. And the circumstantial data of other factors that shorten tire life you encounter will make way more difference than the issue you are posing.
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Old 09-21-22, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
The harder you ride, the faster your tires wear, especially braking and climbing if you put out a lot of power. The contact patch on 25s will be narrower than on wider tires, so yes, the rear will show a center flat earlier, etc. There's less rubber, so wear is concentrated in a smaller area. That said, around here I never wear my tires out. They always get cut up before that happens.

I always have at least one set of new tires in the spares tote.
Got it, I guess I'll probably order a 2nd set of 25c tires in reserve. I never thought I'd actually enjoy 25c tires. There's a sensation of acceleration even going uphill and my climbing style is mainly out of saddle. It's strange to say, but it definitely brings a smile to my face as I'm riding!
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Old 09-21-22, 12:21 PM
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You know that narrower tires don't stop as well as wider ones, which is why you have to brake earlier and harder even if you were descending at the same speed, right?
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Old 09-21-22, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by surak View Post
You know that narrower tires don't stop as well as wider ones, which is why you have to brake earlier and harder even if you were descending at the same speed, right?
I notice that on the straight downhill, but i think the trade off is more responsive uphill acceleration and being able to body weight shift into the corners more aggressively. I also picked up additional brake pads.
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Old 09-22-22, 06:26 AM
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jonathanf2 I get your preference for 25s, as I prefer the feel and handling as well.

Your question about wear rates is interesting, and I suspect complicated to answer. A wider tire at lower pressure will have a bigger contact patch carrying the same weight as the narrower, higher pressure tire, so I’d guess the friction between tire and road would be lower across the bigger patch. However, I can imagine that, at the tiny scale of a few millimeters we’re talking about, the effects might be minimal, or at least small to the extent that all the other variables at play (ride demands, temp, road surface, etc.) might be just as consequential to wear. I dunno, but I can say that, in my experience moving from 23s to 25s, I did not see any appreciable wear improvements despite dropping about 10psi, so maybe there’s a breakpoint size difference, e.g. 5mm, where it becomes noticeable? Dunno, so I’ll have to defer to others on that matter.

As said upthread, it’s probably a good idea to have at least one spare on hand in any case, especially these days with the all the stock and supply issues.
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Old 09-22-22, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jonathanf2 View Post
Got it, I guess I'll probably order a 2nd set of 25c tires in reserve. I never thought I'd actually enjoy 25c tires. There's a sensation of acceleration even going uphill and my climbing style is mainly out of saddle. It's strange to say, but it definitely brings a smile to my face as I'm riding!
Front tires last forever so just order a single extra tire. A set/pair is ok but probably overkill.
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Old 09-22-22, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
jonathanf2 I get your preference for 25s, as I prefer the feel and handling as well.

Your question about wear rates is interesting, and I suspect complicated to answer. A wider tire at lower pressure will have a bigger contact patch carrying the same weight as the narrower, higher pressure tire, so I’d guess the friction between tire and road would be lower across the bigger patch. However, I can imagine that, at the tiny scale of a few millimeters we’re talking about, the effects might be minimal, or at least small to the extent that all the other variables at play (ride demands, temp, road surface, etc.) might be just as consequential to wear. I dunno, but I can say that, in my experience moving from 23s to 25s, I did not see any appreciable wear improvements despite dropping about 10psi, so maybe there’s a breakpoint size difference, e.g. 5mm, where it becomes noticeable? Dunno, so I’ll have to defer to others on that matter.

As said upthread, it’s probably a good idea to have at least one spare on hand in any case, especially these days with the all the stock and supply issues.
I think I might have a unique case since I really only do hill climbing, if I ride the flats it's only to warm up before the hills. I have very limited cycling time throughout the week (work, school aged kids, etc.), so I maximize the effort through climbing at near or peak heart rate. A couple things I notice with 25c tires is that the higher pressure minimizes side-to-side squish during out of saddle climbing; my downhill acceleration is faster forcing me to brake earlier/harder; cornering I can really lean hard into the curves practically scraping my pedals. I notice these things to an extent on 28c, but on 25c I can really get a feel for the climb and downhill.

On a road bike, I almost feel like it's better not to dampen the road with wider tires, there's a certain connection you get alerting your senses!
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Old 09-28-22, 03:16 PM
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[QUOTE=surak;22655092]You know that narrower tires don't stop as well as wider ones, which is why you have to brake earlier and harder even if you were descending at the same speed, right?[/QUOTE

The fastest stop is with the rear tire just off the ground. As you cannot skid a front tire in a straight line on dry pavement without going over the bars a 23 will stop just a s fast as a 32.
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Old 09-28-22, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jonathanf2 View Post
I think I might have a unique case since I really only do hill climbing, if I ride the flats it's only to warm up before the hills. I have very limited cycling time throughout the week (work, school aged kids, etc.), so I maximize the effort through climbing at near or peak heart rate. A couple things I notice with 25c tires is that the higher pressure minimizes side-to-side squish during out of saddle climbing; my downhill acceleration is faster forcing me to brake earlier/harder; cornering I can really lean hard into the curves practically scraping my pedals. I notice these things to an extent on 28c, but on 25c I can really get a feel for the climb and downhill.

On a road bike, I almost feel like it's better not to dampen the road with wider tires, there's a certain connection you get alerting your senses!
Perhaps if you really like the feel of 25c tires you should try 23c. Those things you prefer with 25c tires is even more noticeable with 23c tires, pump to the max and let them fly.
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Old 09-29-22, 08:35 AM
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I did not see any ''real life'' difference between my 25 and 28. However, if you're asking for empirical data, I don't believe you'll get an answer here.

Buy 3 tires at once. Change the rear one when it's done and the front one should be good until the new rear one is done. Problem solved!

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Old 09-29-22, 03:14 PM
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The rim used will play a bit into the perceived difference between 25 and 28.
I also prefer 25s after trying 28s but my rim was designed for 25s so they sit better.
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Old 09-29-22, 06:45 PM
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Don;t really have a need for larger than 25 on my roadies. I do use 28 on a bike I have set up for shopping and running errands, but it does short mileage and no marked reason to consider mileage or speed/feel.
One thing which has a great effect on tire feel and wear is rim internal width, as noted by yaw above. I pretty much have been riding only 21+ internal width rims since '09. Both 23s and 25s handle so much better on this width. I have a bunch of wheelsets of 'older' std, 19, 17 and even one set of 15mm. They just sit in the storage space. (I should get rid of them...)
Everything is better with the wider internals, especially handling and grip. In addition to those elements, the wheel feels as 'fast' at lower pressures, because the tire shoulder casing is better supported, so less squiggly.
Also inportant is the riding surface. Santa Barbara area roads have been very 'heavy' for decades... And eat rubber. We starting to get surface revival, thanks to the recent infrarstructure funding.
Some roads now feel like 'powder skiing'... LOL! All area riders are smiling a lot more often!
As for 'wear', the brand and model seems to be the big decider, for me. Best has been the Conti GP 4000, then close, almost the same were the Vredestein TriComps. Currently running Rubino Pros, and they seem t wear ok. Haven't really paid much attention because my riding, over the past 5 yrs, has been so varied, sporadic, relatively low performance, that I wasn't going thru tires at my usual rate - usually 3 to 4 tires a year, sometimes 5. A lot depends on bike use. With multiple bikes there are years when the tires all go south in similar time frame - so changing/putting on new rubber happens within weeks of other changes.
I don't worry about life span so much (unless its markedly shorter).. I pay more attention to the feel and performance and let the tires wear as they might.
Ride On
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Old 09-29-22, 06:59 PM
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I run 28's on the front and 25's on the rear. I used to run 28's front and rear because I like the cushion, but then discovered that I really only need the dampening from the lower PSI tire on the front and not the rear. The hammering through the front forks on rough surfaces eventually leads to a headache for me. And yes, I do have carbon forks. I suffered from a severe whiplash in a snowmobile accident many years ago and rattling through my arms really messes with my head now or I would run 25's frt and rr. I too like the feel of the road.
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Old 09-29-22, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by cyclezen View Post
I pretty much have been riding only 21+ internal width rims since '09.
Whoa! Which 21mm IW road rims were around in ‘09??
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Old 09-29-22, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Whoa! Which 21mm IW road rims were around in ‘09??
HED Bastogne & Kermesse and also the 1st gen Ardennes - but that was just a hair pricey for me, at that time...
The Kermesse was the mid weight and the 1st gen Bastogne was for Clydes or rough, heavy, Belgian Block type riding.
Think they were introduced mid-00s ??? there abouts...
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EDIT: Still riding my Kermesse from '09 - daily rider. a solid wheelset, which rolls like the day I bought them... Broke one spoke back about 8 yrs ago, when a stick kicked up into the rear wheel, on a group ride... was a butt clincher moment, but all survived, and I rode the wheel 5 miles home..
Best Wheel money I've spent, that and the 2 pr of Ardennes I bought since.

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Old 09-30-22, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by cyclezen View Post
HED Bastogne & Kermesse and also the 1st gen Ardennes - but that was just a hair pricey for me, at that time...
The Kermesse was the mid weight and the 1st gen Bastogne was for Clydes or rough, heavy, Belgian Block type riding.
Think they were introduced mid-00s ??? there abouts...
Ride On
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EDIT: Still riding my Kermesse from '09 - daily rider. a solid wheelset, which rolls like the day I bought them... Broke one spoke back about 8 yrs ago, when a stick kicked up into the rear wheel, on a group ride... was a butt clincher moment, but all survived, and I rode the wheel 5 miles home..
Best Wheel money I've spent, that and the 2 pr of Ardennes I bought since.
Hmm…I thought those were 23mm external, 17mm internal. I remember Ardennes was kinda famous for being wide at 17mm, and I recall Ardeness+, intro’d in ‘13, was only 20.6mm. I don’t recall anything about Bastogne or Kermesse besides the name, but I’d double-check the stats, because I doubt they were 21mm internal in ‘09, based on my recollections of the period.
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Old 09-30-22, 08:08 AM
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I swap the front and rear tires regularly to minimize that squaring off of the rear tire.
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Old 09-30-22, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Hmm…I thought those were 23mm external, 17mm internal. I remember Ardennes was kinda famous for being wide at 17mm, and I recall Ardeness+, intro’d in ‘13, was only 20.6mm. I don’t recall anything about Bastogne or Kermesse besides the name, but I’d double-check the stats, because I doubt they were 21mm internal in ‘09, based on my recollections of the period.
Current HED Ardennes Pro are 21 mm IW, 25 mm external; so I similarly doubt that this is a HED standard from 15 years ago.

I am currently riding 25 mm tires on 19 mm IW wheels, which seem a good compromise between handling and impact absorption for my area.
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Old 09-30-22, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by SpedFast View Post
I run 28's on the front and 25's on the rear. I used to run 28's front and rear because I like the cushion, but then discovered that I really only need the dampening from the lower PSI tire on the front and not the rear. The hammering through the front forks on rough surfaces eventually leads to a headache for me. And yes, I do have carbon forks. I suffered from a severe whiplash in a snowmobile accident many years ago and rattling through my arms really messes with my head now or I would run 25's frt and rr. I too like the feel of the road.
I am sensitive to bar vibration/bumps due to arthritis in hands and and wrists and what has helped the most is quality anti-vibration gloves made for using jackhammers which are much better than cycling gloves.
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Old 09-30-22, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Hmm…I thought those were 23mm external, 17mm internal. I remember Ardennes was kinda famous for being wide at 17mm, and I recall Ardeness+, intro’d in ‘13, was only 20.6mm. I don’t recall anything about Bastogne or Kermesse besides the name, but I’d double-check the stats, because I doubt they were 21mm internal in ‘09, based on my recollections of the period.
Well, just 2 mos ago I put in new Velox rims strips - 22mm - doing a tire change, frt & bk, and the tape fit perfectly in the bed only... the 2 ardennes wheelsets are same... and remembering the Orders and Invoices from HED...
My older Ritchey OCR aero wheels are 17 - like them a bunch, so I still ride those on my Marin Treviso...
Ride On
Yuri
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Old 09-30-22, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
Perhaps if you really like the feel of 25c tires you should try 23c. Those things you prefer with 25c tires is even more noticeable with 23c tires, pump to the max and let them fly.
Yea I am a beginner and I really liked my 23s. I know 25 is supposed to be faster, but the 23 was more fun to me
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Old 09-30-22, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by easyupbug View Post
I am sensitive to bar vibration/bumps due to arthritis in hands and and wrists and what has helped the most is quality anti-vibration gloves made for using jackhammers which are much better than cycling gloves.
Yep, I'm so conditioned on gloves I don't even ride the trainer without them. When I catch myself in time out on the road I'll let the bike bounce and vibrate below me with all of my weight on my legs if I see a rough patch before I hit it.
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Old 09-30-22, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by cyclezen View Post
Well, just 2 mos ago I put in new Velox rims strips - 22mm - doing a tire change, frt & bk, and the tape fit perfectly in the bed only... the 2 ardennes wheelsets are same... and remembering the Orders and Invoices from HED...
My older Ritchey OCR aero wheels are 17 - like them a bunch, so I still ride those on my Marin Treviso...
Ride On
Yuri
My memory is not great— and really bad in some ways!— so I hit the Wayback Machine web archive site and dialed up Hedcycling.com from ‘09….

https://web.archive.org/web/20090822...astogne_c2.asp

You’re right that Bastogne C2 and Ardennes C2 are the same width, but probably you’re recalling the overall width (i.e. external width), which is indicated as 23mm. Internal width is not stated by Hed, but it certainly cannot be 21mm, which would mean the sidewalls— hooks n’ all— were 1mm. That’d be virtually impossible.

They could be 18mm internal, which would be an external-to-internal width ratio more in keeping with alu rim standards. However, as I mentioned earlier, Ardennes+ got 20-point-something millimeter internal width out of an external width extrusion 25mm wide, so it suggests the C2 rims could have been 17mm internal.

That said, the same year Hed dropped Ardennes+, American Classic launched the (nominally) 22mm external x 19.4mm internal Argent, so the tech for extremely thin sidewalls was there, but comparing the Argent and Bastogne rim specs in other dimensions, notably weight and depth, suggests that because the Hed rims are both shallower and heavier, that they were not at the same engineering level as the AC rim. AC couldn’t even afford the material to weld or machine the sidewalls, two features we see (I think) in Bastogne C2/Ardennes C2.

In any case, Hed’s status as a pioneer of wide rims is indisputable, as is their pioneering work in aero.
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