jccaclimber

I wrote to Norton about this several years ago in the process of putting together a shop safety document. Their response, in short, was that while you will clog the wheel and need to dress it, that the exploding wheel thing, due to aluminum, is an unreasonable concern invented in academia.
Cracked wheels due to prior impact damage can separate and are a serious risk, but that’s a separate issue. They advised that the only way to overheat a wheel with aluminum would be to coat the entire wheel surface and then keep leaning into it for a long time after it had ceased cutting.
While energy is no longer being removed by the slag (because you aren’t cutting), grinder wheels are not designed to fail when fully utilizing the output power of the motor, regardless of the material being worked.

grumpus

Definitely don't try to modify the rims. I had this problem with some MA40s and Zaffiros, although I didn't take it as far as breaking plastic levers - I just bought some decent steel levers and the tyres surrendered. I never encountered this problem when I was working as a mechanic, at least not to this extent; I tried lube and toe straps, one or both of which are normally the solution in this situation, but when brute force seems the only solution then that's what I'll use.

jesnow

To bring some closure to this June 2021 thread. I stopped reading because people were so horrible to me, especially Koyote, Cxwrench and Veganbikes, really super offensive to simple asked questions. You guys got a pretty toxic culture going here. I hope you like it. You are holding back everybody else. For what? Your own self gratification. You need to examine your comportment.

1) I did it.I sanded the rims, w/40 grit, then finished them with finer. Tires went on great. No mishaps of any kind from it. Actual fact. Months of uneventful riding.
2) I had a cardiac event a few weeks later. That sucked, but at least I didn't die. Cool new pacemaker.
3) Got hit by a car in November 2021, that set me back and again hindered my testing, in that the wheel was now a handful of carbon fiber and aluminium spokes. Sic transit gloria mundi. I couldn't sleep lying down for two months *but* kept working. That sucked.

People here were super awful to me. Koyote, VeganBikes, CXwrench, if you don't know something, then don't comment. It's not your business. Is there some way I can block you from seeing things I post? It's a kind of toxic culture in this site where there are a few True Keepers Of Knowledge who are offended by anybody wanting to try something unorthodox. I do that thing (try out crazy stuff) in every aspect of my life. It doesn't always work, but in this case it worked very well. Rim flattening to ease mounting problems is a thing to do and it works.

4) So for me personally: I then bought new TT wheels, but the tires went right on, no need for mods, good. And I only ever rode them 40K in the LA state time trial, very happy with my time. Looking forward to 2023. Then I got COVID. What a ******g year. Pardon the profanity, not directed at any person.

5) Thanks to the woman driving the Nissan Sentra, I now have a brand new bike from a very famous bike manufacturer. I could have had four of them for what i got. I have cheap **** fulcrum tires that came with it, but that will be changing. I have new Dura Ace Wheels on the way. Everything going tubeless. No sanding.

6) Much as I loved this discussion I now have a new one about tubeless tires and the same people are showing up again and saying #1: "You shouldn't do that" and #2 "Your an idiot"(sic). I will add a link here to that discussion in a second. It really is a certain mindset that is set on fire by anything they don't know. And frankly I'm starting to think that some of the frequent very definitive posters don't actually know very much, they just use these forums as a mode of expression of their personality, and aren't that into helping anybody.
Cheers,
Jon.

It's not that this is a male toxic subculture (it is very), there are many others like gamers or developers or middle school administrators. But people come here to find our actual facts, not your supposition. The big honchos of this place often seem to just write false crap to be snarky and funny and ha ha ha.

Cheers,
Jon.

Mr. 66

Toxic ideas get wonky answers.

I'm glad you are back for posting. I'm happy you are ok.

Atlas Shrugged

Sorry, you had such a crappy time of it lately and hope your future is a positive one. Yes, this forum (including myself) has a tendency of suffering fools lightly. Take your latest diatribe about wanting to save money by purchasing non-tubeless tires and mounting them on tubeless rims, 25mm no less. Then demanding only a certain type of response on what on the surface seems like a ridiculous idea, even more so when you are talking new Dura-Ace wheels and an adequate budget for tires. Perhaps heed the extremely experienced and opinionated amongst us and leave well enough alone.

Sonofamechanic 

I’m in agreement with the OP. It’s more than ‘suffering fools’ or ‘toxic’ ideas (as previous post called it). It’s pretty inescapable nastiness. You could recommend flipping your bike upside down to work on it (vs using a stand) and a plethora of ‘know betters’ instantly create a scrum of antagonistic responses. It’s like chumming the water for fish! It’s quite a bit worse on this forum than the other 4 or 5 bike forums I’m on but not sure there is really any solution. Just have to put up and watch your own posts so they don’t incite purposely. Maybe honest call outs like Jon’s will help re-direct us eventually. Here’s hoping.

veganbikes

Just FYI you want to use the "@" symbol when quoting peoples names. If you are going to go on the attack please mention us by name to us so we can see it. So in the end it would show jesnow but would be written as (at)jesnow. This is not an attack on you this is just useful advice on how to use this forum and quote people.

Also just so you are aware when you have a dangerous and bad idea people will mention it being dangerous and bad. They will also meet you where you are at. You said you knew everything so what do you expect people to do in this situation? You again wanted to hear only one answer only one way and didn't want people to tell you anything else. If you want to talk toxic look in the mirror, you don't ask for help by saying "I know everything don't tell me anything else, answer my question"

I think one of the moderators here said it quite well I assure you I am not trying to give you bad advice I am trying to be truthful. I don't need to lie to someone and give them bad advice because that is all they want to hear. Also you are the only one in this thread and probably others saying they are an idiot. Nobody else has done that I know you want it to be true but nobody is trying to personally attack you in that way.

Also just FYI Fulcrum wheels are not cheap crap wheels they are actually made by Campagnolo or are an offshoot thereof, they may not be the greatest wheels but they aren't crap. They are an economical way to get Campagnolo wheels on a Shimano bike with a standard S-Group cassette or to run campagnolo without having to purchase Campagnolo wheels.

If you want good positive answers you have to come in better. If you come in with the "I know everything don't tell me anything else" people will respond in kind. You don't attract people with vinegar (though personally I do love vinegar) and if you do put out vinegar know you will get more vinegar.

alcjphil

Agree, Fulcrum make a full range of wheels at many price points, as does Shimano. Fulcrum makes some models every bit as good as Shimano Dura Ace. Without knowing which model Fulcrum wheel you have it is impossible to know how good they are. Mid range Fulcrum wheels offer great quality at reasonable prices. Even their entry level wheels offer good value for money spent

BillyD

Incorrect. There are three (3) choices available when one encounters a post … any post … on these forums. 1. Respond respectfully. 2. Respond disrespectfully. 3. Don’t respond at all, just walk away and find a thread you like better. Nobody asked you to monitor the forums for inappropriate threads or inappropriate posters. Nobody is forcing you to respond with “vinegar” if his “vinegar” was not directed personally at you. Instead of looking for something to fight about you could make the correct choice and just walk away.

I gotta tell you, I’m getting tired of being patient with the guys that constantly make the wrong choice.

veganbikes

Sure but in the end read the OPs first post and many of the subsequent posts from them. I get you are doing your job as moderator and thank you for that but he just went on the attack always not because people were attacking him initially but because he wanted a fight. He called me out by my forum handle and said I was toxic and horrible to him because he only wanted someone to parrot exactly what he was saying and not listen to any sort of reason or honesty.

jesnow

I apologize for dissing Fulcrum. They are a great company and make some lovely wheels. I just want to be clear that the wheels we're talking about in this thread are NOT fulcrum but no-name chinese 60mm carbon fiber wheels with aluminum braking surfaces I bought off Amazon. And not bad wheels either, save for one little problem, which I solved. I wish I still had them.

Cheers,
Jon.

Schweinhund

Can I borrow a blue star for a little while? I'll take care of your light work.

alcjphil

So, it wasn't you saying that

Kontact 

I gave up on this forum for a long time, because I - as a professional mechanic - got constantly trolled by amateurs. Your experience is interesting because you are an amateur that is unhappy getting advice to not do something from an outstanding pro mechanic - CXWrench.

However, there is a certain attitude that is excruciating to anyone with great deal of knowledge and experience: That any idea that is effectively untested must be a secret new solution to a classic problem. It almost never is - because the manufacturers really aren't trying to make unusable components and have tested them extensively to avoid people getting killed while using them. In this case, your wheels were the dimensions they were for a good reason, and you don't know what the manufacturer saw when they tested a smaller dimension. Same with your inquiry about non-tubeless tires. Are you some mechanical genius who has insights no one else has?

Working in a shop as the service manager, I can guarantee you that no one knows "all the tricks". I was constantly finding new methods to mount tires and showing them to other mechanics who hadn't yet seen them. Outside a shop you are even less likely to have heard everything we did.

I hope you take this in the spirit intended - advice, not insult. I like a goofy modification myself - but if I attempt one I don't go looking for permission, first. Either I know enough to realize it can work, or the idea is already out there in a do/don't form.

This was a don't. The non-tubeless tire thing is don't. You don't need another life changing crash. You don't even need tubeless road tires. Try latex.

Sonofamechanic 

He apologized for dissing Fulcrum. How is your response in any way helpful or illuminating? We are all bike enthusiasts here with more in common than disparate. Let’s keep this a positive forum.

jesnow

I don't know what kind of complex you guys have. I have a history of making things work that aren't supposed to work. In my professional life I do this too, I've published peer-reviewed scientific papers on the topic of "I did this thing that the equipment manufacturer said you could not do" (that was in the Journal of Mass Spectrometry, I can provide a reference if you want). I published one of my *cycling* wild ideas in the journal Nature in 1994. Looking it up I just discovered somebody even cited it! That was kind of an impractical joke idea, though in today's world it would work easily, and I bet people do it. I don't ever ask anybody's permission for my ideas, but I do often ask if anybody has already *done* them. The answer is sometimes "yes" because I'm not the only person on this planet to have a bright idea. Maybe there's a well known "wrong" way of doing it that works. Shirmergo for example, which was the solution to a question I posted here in 2008. Sometimes the answer is "no", and that's interesting too. It's more fun doing things when the answer is "nobody we know has tried it".

So I've explained myself, what about you?

Why do people like yourself find a question like this so offensive? Nobody is trolling you. I'm not even trolling you now, I really want to know. Is it because you can't stand the idea that things can be successfully used in ways they weren't intended to be? You said yourself you like a wacky fix, so that explanation makes no sense. Is it because you see me as an "arrogant noob" (somebody said this) who has no right to talk back to you? But, no credentials matter in the internet, or I would tell you mine. That sounds a little closer, as you asserted your and cxwrench's "outstanding master mechanic skills". You feel your authority disrespected by my harebrained question. That's sort of what you said, it's an affront.

But here's the thing. When the Authorities such as yourself start mocking and snarking as people did on both of these threads, they scare off people with something to actually say. That's annoying to me as the original poster. It prevents people with actual knowledge (lets say) of the physics of wheel rims of giving an informed opinion, or people who have actually tried something from relating their experience. They could justifiably fear *they* will be mocked for taking a question seriously. Jobst Brandt was infamous for mocking people who he found less technically competent than himself (which was everybody), but even in the days before the internet existed it was widely recognized as wrong.

That's why I ask people with nothing helpful to say to keep quiet. We might even agree about tubeless ("try latex"), but that wasn't the question.

Cheers,
Jon.

Kontact 

Quote where I was offended, said my authority was disrespected or when I mocked you.

veganbikes

Look dude, if you come in asking a question then accept other answers. You cannot come into a situation saying I know everything, I only want to hear one answer and don't tell me different and if you do you are toxic. It doesn't get you anywhere. Being combative from post #1 just comes across poorly. Maybe you have done things that you weren't supposed to and they worked, that is fine. It happens but to expect people to only feed you what you want to hear is not a good thing. Sometimes helping to guide a question is fine but be open to ideas that is the fun is a free flow of ideas. Any good mechanic knows they don't know everything and don't claim it, they are open to new ideas such as in this case mounting a tire. A poor mechanic will say I know everything don't tell me otherwise and I have come across those folks before and they tend not to last long at least not in any of my shops but I hear sometimes they bounce around for while. Like a doctor there is always new things to learn and continuing education and putting a hard wall against that from the get go just doesn't make sense.

People aren't telling you not to do it because they dislike you or they are toxic or whatever you want to put towards it. They are saying it because they value safety and know from experience it is a poor idea. Yes you can do anything you want (so long as it doesn't effect others non-consensually) but sometimes it isn't a good idea and people will say so. Sure yes it is the internet people aren't always outwardly nice or it doesn't show up with the emotion the poster intended because there is no emotion in text on a screen so it is easy to interpret it in a different way than intended.

Look I am sorry if I seemed harsh to you but you gave off a bad mojo from the start and there was no need for that in any of your posts. I am trying to be more positive in life but "Just When I Thought I Was Out, They Pull Me Back In!" - Michael Corleone, The Godfather III. Just ask a question in a more positive manner and it will help everyone greatly.

I would just say "hey I need help getting a tire on this rim, I had thought about sanding it down but unsure if that is a good idea. Has anyone done it? Maybe there is a new trick I haven't tried that might work better? Here is my set up _____ _____ and I tried this _____ and ______ and ___ and no luck" That is a good way to start off and if people go and attack you from that then there is a problem with them.

79pmooney

Just out of curiosity - has anyone ever actually measured rims for outer circumference? I wonder how much rims vary. I'm sure there is an ISO or the like spec on how big or small is within "spec". (Yes, diameter is far easier to measure but for it to be meaningful in terms of tire fit, the assumption has to be made that it is round. Until it is spoked up and built, that isn't always a good assumption.)

I seem to recall the OP saying these were not high end brand name rims. I wonder if they were larger than spec. Shouldn't it be simple math to take the ISO spec for 700c wheel outer diameter, multiply by pi and have a simple number to compare one's actual rim circumference to. If indeed, said rim is larger than spec, if material can be removed uniformly and without loss of rim integrity, what's the big deal with bringing it to spec? That said, I'd only do this with real care, with a thought out plan and look critically at the end result/

79pmooney

He came in asking for answers from those who have done this. Whether that experience went well or badly. Pretty straight forward. And he did ask for responses from just from those for whom it went well. As far as I ca tell from your responses, you've never sanded down a rim and have zero experience. Am I wrong here?

Eric F 

People with a tremendous volume of high-level experience warning you to not do something that potentially increases your chance of being injured is about as helpful as it gets.

If you only want responses that support your wild ideas, online discussion forums are the wrong place to go.

urbanknight

You're not wrong, but in an open forum you will have people who come in and give their .02 whether you want it or not. Ironically, veganbikes is on another thread in this subforum arguing that someone made a useless extraneous post on a half decade old thread, so we all obviously have differing opinions and guidelines for what makes a post worthy. As long as the post adheres to the forum guidelines, we can all go pound sand if we don't like it... but we're also allowed to post about how useless we think it is.

pdlamb

This was the crux of the matter from my perspective as well, though I didn't argue as long or hard as some other posters.

Shall we congratulate jesnow for not having a blowout until he was hit by a motor vehicle? I thought he was headed for a blowout, but he got run over first. Sounds a little warped, right? Nevertheless, I think BF posters have some moral responsibility to point out potential safety issues when we see them. When the occasional poster goes his (or her) own way, it's their own fault if the predicted failure occurs.

Kontact 

Well, no. Making an unusual shifting combination work is cool. Suggesting to the world that a potentially lethal modification is tried and tested is quite different.

Bikes aren't toys.They can easily go 50mph, so certain things - tires, steerer, handlebars, brakes - are not subject to decreased safety margin for the sake of convenience or experimentation.

SoSmellyAir

That is the classic American maverick, "think outside the box" approach. It works occasionally, see, e.g., Alan Mulally "saving" Ford. But more often than not, it does not.