Road Fan

Experience with Sturmey ASC 3-speed fixed-gear hubs?

An old guy at Auburn (no, I was not just talking to myself!) told me to ride fixed every day as part of re-establishing my fitness base, after 2 years of being regularly a lard-butt and occasionally riding indoors and even more occasionally going outside to ride. So, maybe I should build up a fixie. But being a systems engineer I did my due diligence (following the handbook) and overthought it. Here's what I think it needs, with some indication of my enthusiasm for the feature:

light fenders (meh)
front brake, if I feel overcome by a hill going down or in traffic (need it!)
multiple gears if I feel overcome by a hill goint up (need it!)
drops (appearances must be maintained)
maybe gen lights (see above!)
tubulars (I like them too much, I need to stem the slide into clinchers!)

So who is using the old Sturmey ASC, how do you like it, what kind of riding, having any problems et cetera?

Any websites on "ABCs of Fixies?" which might talk about the "regular way (non-asc)?"

I would probably build it on a Super Course frame or a Peug UO-8 (rusty metallic green with a blue fork, to cover the important aspects of the build).

Recommendations wanted for a good, cheap fixed gear chainset which accepts ⅛" chain.

cyclic_eric

I've ridden both fixed gear and 3-speed Sturmey-Archer bikes.
Fixed is a fun experience, and maybe helps smooth your spin, or else gives you an appreciation of it.
3-speeds are completely different. Imho, there is always some drag-friction you can feel with internally-geared hubs that for me is disappointing. They are also neat for the experience, being able to shift at a stop, and just try out something different.
I don't think either will be particularly great for training. For that, simply get out and ride. If a different bike will get you out to ride more often, then they're worth it!

nlerner

So you have the hub and the shifter? I’d think that’s the first significant challenge. Or you could get an S3X:

https://www.amazon.com/Sturmey-Arche...g%2C132&sr=1-1

Reviews seemed decidedly mixed on that one.

due ruote 

A major part of what I enjoy about SS/FG riding is literally having one gear and never having a thought of shifting. Easy for me to say though as I have no real hills to contend with.

John E

I am the opposite. I really like having a variety of gears available. If I were to do fixed, it would be a 3-speed Sturmey.

clubman 

Outside of track racing or commuting, I think of fixed wheel riding as an early spring method of limbering up, spinning fast and 'pedalling circles'. Once you get accustomed to a good pace on flatlands, then you can try doing some bunny hills. Then it's time to move over to the geared bike to prepare for your real training with the rest of your team in Belgium.

I think an ASC could be wasted on a serious effort to get fit, if only because they cost a bomb and are very difficult to maintain if they go south. I've never ridden one but other fixed riders get annoyed with the little bit of gear lash inherent in them.

Road Fan

Was actually asking about ASC hubs, not about the stereo typed traditional views of the uses of fixed gear in training programs ad the "necessity to train in Belgium" or any other such fairy tales.

One guy says it's expensive. One guy says 3 speeds are different from fixed gears. It is significant that nobody says "I lived with an ASC and it was (xxxxx OR yyyyy). One guy says they are "very difficult to maintain if they go south." I assume he's really talking about "hard to repair."

So in much plainer language:

Does anyone here have experience using a Sturmey Archer ASC hub? Can you comment on its functioning, durability, and repairabiilty?

bwilli88 

The problem is that SA ASC hubs have not been made for 60 years. They worked as they are described.
today's modern equivalent is the S3X. I do not have any experience with either but have heard they fill a niche market.

Road Fan

Yes, I understand how old these are. But with a number of other nearly antique parts, such as the AW, FW, and FM, and some older rims like Fiamme, Mavic, and Nisi, there are contemporary users or OFUs like some of us who have good recollection. In other cases there is a known reputation. So I asked looking to gain some insight.

I'm trying to understand if that niche market suits me.

But always as close to fact-based as possible.

Bianchigirll 

When I lived near Boston in the early ‘90s I knew a few guys who’d do the FG thing in the early spring for the reasons stated above. I knew a few who rode all winter long but used a SS or even coaster brake for simplicity

I tried the FG thing once or twice and it wasn’t for me. Here in on the edge of the prairie I sometimes really miss the Motobecane Phantom Uno I used to have but seldom rode. I think a SS might be a good thing for usual route

IAmSam

I can't speak to the utility of one or three or any - fixed gears - towards your training goals. But Mr Willi has it right. If you did, indeed, do your research you cannot not be aware that a SA ASC hub is not only old and possibly fragile but is unobtanium and thus is verrry valuable and something it would be a shame to add hard wear onto and training does add wear. If you do decide you actually want a 3-speed fixed drive the answer is that yes there are a few NOS S3Xs out there. But its been out of production for a while and was not problem-free even back in its time a few years ago. I had one that never was quite right and SA gave out update kits that I gave away with the hub so....

But whatever you do - do not screw up that ASC

nlerner

The fact is—if you want to get in decent cycling shape, you need to get out and ride as much as possible. Doesn’t really matter if it’s an ASC fixed gear, an ordinary, a trike, or a unicycle. Otherwise, you’re not talking about facts, just hypotheticals for a hub you haven’t even disclosed is in your possession.

Dylansbob 

I'm a huge believer in "fixie for fitness" riding (just maybe not riding-drunk-home-from-the-bar fixieing). When you have to make a jump to catch a light or for some other traffic reason, when you have to climb a rise and get into your lungs a little; either way you have to learn to recover while your still riding. Before my accident(s), I was starting to play squash competitively and I'd credit riding fixed for the massive fitness advantage I had over most players.

I like your logic on build, either frame sounds good. The only concern is tubulars in winter, but hey at least you can ride them flat if the need arises. Skinny tires are great for skidding, but I'm hooked on 32+. Both frames have ample clearance for a cross tubular and still have fender clearances, maybe.

I've never rode an ASC, but spent a year or two with a S3X. There are a few drawbacks to it. People complain about the weight, but it's a 3spd it's going to be heavy. My big gripes about it that there's a lot of internal slack. Feels like you're riding with a loose chain compared to the immediate feeling of a normal fixed drivetrain. I get it, it's necessary for the internal gears to be able to move. The other problem was with the ratios vs parasitic drag. I had a ~.75m/400ft climb on my commute back then (past the Tacoma Dome), when you shifted into one of the reduction gears the increased drag made it not really worth it to downshift. I'd eventually quit using the middle gear and treat it like a 2spd.

Honestly the best option for a multispeed shift-on-the-fly drivetrain would be to modify an AW per Sheldon's page. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/awfixed.html

Mr. 66

What is OFUs?

JohnDThompson 

The initial production run of the S3X hub had some reliability issues. They seem to have addressed that in late production. I've been using an S3X hub on one of my bikes for about ten years now with no problems. It's my "bad weather bike," and has been ridden in all sorts of conditions, including rainy century rides. My biggest complaint is the odd gear ratios: 0.625/0.75/1.0 -- I'd rather have the ASC ratios: 0.75/0.9/1.0, as that gives two fairly close high ratios with a bail-out low gear for headwinds and hills. But ASC hubs are outrageously expensive.

bikamper

I hope I can kind of help. I do ride a 3 speed fixed gear, though neither an ASC nor an S3X. I use a modified FW converted to a 3 speed fixed gear using some parts from a trashed S5. It's also in a Super Course frame that I use for FG touring. It's a very sweet riding bike, and other than tubulars and a rear brake, set up like you proposed. There is some slop in low gear and less in the other two. It's just me, but I have never felt the 'fixed gear lash' to be an issue. I don't give it much thought. The modified FW has a wider range than the ASC. Comes in handy getting your lard butt up some hills. And, has a neutral position for when the need to get off your sore butt and coast a bit.
I never gave much thought to riding fixed to get back into shape as much as working on 'fluidity and balance', which can also be achieved by riding rollers. Though riding rollers, if we're being honest, is boring as hell. I will recommend you ride with some kind of foot retention, though something that floats to save your knees.
I'm thinking that you are considering something like this.


If lash is an issue and you can live with two speeds instead of three, a modified Bendix Power Brake hub is the way to go. Though the crude American cousin to Sturmeys' jewel like, and fragile, TF hub. It's butt simple, bullet proof, easy to build and parts are somewhat still available.

Big Block

I have a current project that will use an ASC hub (1952 Hobbs Blue Riband). But it is not quite finished, so no experience.
From my research, the ride feel will not be the same as a single fixed speed. I accept that. I wanted another transmission to add to the late 1940s/early 50s working collection (Osgear, Simplex TDF, Cyclo Benelux, Campagnolo GS). I like to experience the various rides of that period without needing to compare them to modern componentry.
Brakes will be essential as the alloy shell flanges were only the same width as the standard steel. So do not use your legs and body weight to slow you down as that would place unreasonable loads on the alloy flanges. They were offered to the traditional British time trialist, so riding alone over gentle undulations would be where I will use it.
As you can see I toyed with getting some Lytaloy cranks made, but the tooling jigs became too expensive. So just use any late 1940s/early 1950's 1/8". Because of the straight chainline I can't see why a 3/32" ring couldn't be used. Williams are plentiful, Chater Lea originals provide a bit more style. Using Hugo's component database (still found via Wayback) you can see how others have used the ASC hub: 1948 Bates, 1951 Hill Special, 1946 Hobbs and 1948 Raleigh

Road Fan

I'm not failing to disclose anything. I don't have an ASC, I'm talking about a possible plan to make a fixed gear bike which would be usable around town and in our local hills, with my old knees which are not getting younger, as I find every single time I need to squat to measure my saddle height, or adjust it. I might build a fixed to use for that - it should work more muscles in the same amount of road time as riding my 2 x 10 Mondonico.

Yes, at present it's hypothetical, but I'm asking other members to share their experience with such a hub if they have any; wouldn't you try to access this group if you were thinking of trying something new? I believe that on BF we are permitted to do that without "disclosing" what we do or do not own. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Need to ride /work out for fitness? Yep, guilty. Do I believe there's only one way to do that? NO. Do you? if so, have you tried all the other methods and found them wanting? That story would be worth a whole blog from you, in that case. Please share, the world is curious. Also please list out all the bikes and gear you own.

nlerner

Congrats--you're the first person I've ever put on my block list.

79pmooney

I was told by my club vets to set my UO-8 fixed, keeping the brakes, to improve my pedaling. This was June. I was sold my first ride and have had one n my stable ever since (now half of my 6 bikes). That was 1976. The next year I worked in a bike shop and raced/trained seriously. Late hours at work, a friend of our mechanic used to come by and much of the time, the topic was fixed gears. They both had and had dissected ASC hubs. Both agreed that hub was probably not a good fit for me as they didn't feel it was really the tool for a racer; that I'd probably break it. So I stayed one-speed, usually close variations of 42-17. I've diversified the past decade by running double sided hubs and a custom fix gear with a very long dropout (not track end). Rode 5 Cycle Oregons on it, running 3 cogs on the mountain days and carrying the chainwhip you can see on my avatar photo.

So, comments - I don't know how old or how strong you are so I do not know if those mechanics advice about not using an ASC applies. I know Ann Arbor well and spent three years riding all winter, first on the UO-8 single speed before I was turned onto fix gears, then on the third evolution of that bike. Brakes - use two. Ann Arbor has hills that will be far nicer going up with both levers as handles and the drawbacks to having both to anything besides ego are very small. (And first time you have a downhill issue with your front, whatever drawbacks there were will vanish very quickly.. My workhose fix gear wore fenders year 'round, a then cable, now U-lock and a rack that evolved to a Lowrider. I highly recommend the Lowrider route. Out of the saddle rocking is the most civilized way to get uphill. But weight in back is a lever working at odds with your arms. Same weight in Lowriders doesn't affect out of the saddle and even wild rocking at all. (Just make sure your front tire is big enough and wheel strong enough. Loaded Lowriders kill front wheels that aren't up to it. They usual bunny hop and riding "light" don't happen.

Re: gears and fixed riding - early mountain road races were ridden on fix gears but double sided hubs. The peloton stopped and flipped at the bottom of mountains, My two recent fix gear bikes (the custom and my revamped Mooney) have been conceived of from the beginning as multi-speed but stopping and flipping the wheel or changing cogs as had to happen back in the old days. So changing gears requires a stop and loss of momentum. It is a commitment. But it also allows me to do rides to and around Crater Lake, next week in Oregon's Painted Hills and through the very far from flat west hills of Portland that nearly reach my back yard. And trust me, 42-23 or 42-12 fixed are just as real as 42-17. Like 42-17, sublime in the right conditions and like 42-17, oh-so-wrong in others!

Edit: The friend of our mechanic who didn't think the ASC was for me was this unknown fellow that went by the name Sheldon. Tubulars. No, my fix gears were way more proletariat and just wore working class sewups. 300g training cottons in summer, cyclocross tires in winter. I hit two streets in 6 mostly car-less winters in Ann Arbor and Boston that were un-ridable. One was an irregular sheet of ice, the other had deep car tire ruts in very heavy Boston snow. Went down on both three times. Walked the last half of the icy one. Very sore.

P!N20

Dyslexic aliens

clubman 

Here's the thing. You can't reasonably ask members to fully articulate their experiences with ASC's, as compared to other fixed wheels and hope that they will have any relevance to your possible experience if you buy one. Just buy a fixed wheel and ride it first. I would think there's no more than 10 members who own these rare hubs and they likely don't ride them hard, if at all since they start at about $500 with shifter. Who wants to write out a detailed summation of the minutia you want when you often lash out at anyone who answer your posts but somehow fail to meet your lofty expectations. I've answered one of these drawn out threads about your Rudge once before and it was ignored. And now, I will leave you to your good graces. See you later. Not.

Road Fan

I haven't seen any prices on ASC yet. For S3X I've seen $200 to $250 on Ebay.

Road Fan

Ok, sorry, I see that I first used that! I think I meant "old fellow user" or some similar terminology.

Apologies for having confused myself, and perhaps the rest of us!

Road Fan

Sorry for ignoring you. I don't recall your response in a Rudge thread, so sorry about that, as well. Knowing how generally helpful you are, I will go back and look. There were several Rudge threads over a four year period, and I was not able to find older ones to be able to keep them together. As well, the "Love of Three-speeds" thread has over 20,000 entries with no subheadings. My first postings about the Rudge were completely ignored, as well. Not even a "nice bike, too bad it's not perfect."