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Throttles as a regulatory target .

Old 09-23-22, 06:57 PM
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Throttles as a regulatory target .

Interesting article from Bike Portland concerning regulatory issues raised over abuse:

Dawn of the ‘throttle kids’
https://bikeportland.org/2022/07/25/daw ... ids-360265

Good discussion of the abuse and illegal use, that is stimulating the regulatory pushback.
Throttles are an easy target.
“All it’s going to take to have this conversation explode is a teen hitting a baby stroller or a senior citizen.”

I'm seeing a growing backlash in Dallas as 30mph ebikes are showing up, at speed on the MUP's.
We have already seen pedestrian deaths from cyclist collisions, and scooter issues .
Between this and the fire issue, things are coming to the fore, motivated by the Vision Zero campaign,
and the recent fatal NYC fires.
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Old 09-23-22, 07:27 PM
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I live in NYC, so this is irrelevant to me,...
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Old 09-23-22, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by tds101 View Post
I live in NYC, so this is irrelevant to me,...
That's a relief. No ebikes or escooters there, then. Or if there are, they're all piloted responsibly.
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Old 09-23-22, 07:54 PM
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I love and need my throttle. It has moved me out of the way of autos that might have hit me several times. Once when someone right hooked me I was able to turn hard right with the throttle and he missed me. I could not have stopped in time. I don't use the throttle to actually ride, I have PAS and it is more comfortable than holding down something with my thumb. But throttles are excellent and necessary emergency devices!!! They can take my throttle over my dead body, lol. If people are speeding with throttles the issue is controlling the speed limit of the bike or controlling the rider's choices, not taking away a throttle.
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Old 09-23-22, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
That's a relief. No ebikes or escooters there, then. Or if there are, they're all piloted responsibly.
Oh, it has nothing to do with "responsibility", it has to do with laws already in the books. I guess you didn't look up my specific location to see if it'll affect your life, did you? We have a plethora of idiots riding ebikes, escooters, euc's, etc. The same as the possible banning of "e"`vehicles in apartments and public housing. Is it cause for concern in your neck of the woods?
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Old 09-25-22, 12:46 PM
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Throttled vehicles are not bicycles so let's keep them away from pedestrian and multi use paths. On the road fine, it is where mopeds and motorcycles belong. We need to be very clear and careful we aren't conflating an electric assist bicycle with a throttled moped which could cause issues for folks who have bicycles. If we lump even the anemic throttled vehicles with proper electric bikes and potentially regular bikes we could have disastrous affects.
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Old 09-26-22, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Throttled vehicles are not bicycles so let's keep them away from pedestrian and multi use paths.
I take it you are not in the USA where bikes can have throttles and still be classified as a bicycle.
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Old 09-26-22, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Throttled vehicles are not bicycles so let's keep them away from pedestrian and multi use paths. On the road fine, it is where mopeds and motorcycles belong. We need to be very clear and careful we aren't conflating an electric assist bicycle with a throttled moped which could cause issues for folks who have bicycles. If we lump even the anemic throttled vehicles with proper electric bikes and potentially regular bikes we could have disastrous affects.
Throttles are legal in NY, USA. Your opinion of all ebikes with throttles being mopeds is just that, an "opinion". If you don't want a throttle don't purchase an ebike with a throttle. I guess you feel all ebikes should be licensed and registered, as well as speed limited to 25kph/15mph too. Maybe where you live.
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Old 09-26-22, 03:41 PM
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Sometimes individuals don't like to obey the law. In CA and at least half of the other states, bikes with throttles that are governed to 20 mph are classified as BICYCLES. To deny this is against the law.
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Old 09-26-22, 04:27 PM
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Class 1 eBike

A Class 1 eBike, or low-speed pedal-assisted electric bicycles, is equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and that stops providing assistance when the bicycle reaches 20 mph. These e-bikes are legal on any paved surface that a regular bike is allowed to operate.

Class 2 eBike

Class 2 eBikes, or low-speed throttle-assisted electric bicycle, are equipped with motors that can exclusively propel the bicycle, but that cannot provide assistance when the bike reaches 20 mph. These e-bikes are legal on any paved surface that a regular bike is allowed to operate.

Class 3 eBike

A Class 3 eBike, or speed pedal-assisted electric bicycle, is equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and stops providing assistance when the bicycle reaches 28 mph. Operators of Class 3 e-bikes must be 16 or older and wear a helmet. Class 3 e-bikes are prohibited from Class I multi-use bike paths unless specifically authorized by a local ordinance.
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Old 09-26-22, 05:19 PM
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Different locations, different laws,...

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Old 09-26-22, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by KPREN View Post
I take it you are not in the USA where bikes can have throttles and still be classified as a bicycle.
You did take it wrong, I am in the US, I just don't classify mopeds as bicycles. The class 2 which you are referring to is generally a grey area in a lot of places and while they call them bicycles, they are throttled and a bicycle requires pedaling to move forward. If people want to ride throttled vehicles they should keep to roads for vehicles and off of MUPs and dedicated bicycle lanes and pedestrian paths.

Originally Posted by tds101 View Post
Throttles are legal in NY, USA. Your opinion of all ebikes with throttles being mopeds is just that, an "opinion". If you don't want a throttle don't purchase an ebike with a throttle. I guess you feel all ebikes should be licensed and registered, as well as speed limited to 25kph/15mph too. Maybe where you live.
Nope don't feel that bicycles should be licensed and registered, mopeds and throttled vehicles are fine if they so choose to. As far as speed limited, just to 28mph pedal assist or class 3. If I want to go really fast I would probably be best off on a motorcycle ideally with good brakes and designed for such.

I know people here love to get excited by throttles and I guess if you limit them to 15mph or less they are less problematic(ish) but really they just need to be off of pedestrian paths and bicycle paths and everything is generally fine.

The reason a lot of people dislike e-bikes is throttled vehicles being called bicycles and being treated as bicycles. If we are realistic about things we can change this.

Also if you want to talk legality, there are plenty of much worse things that were at one point classified as legal that aren't any more and most people are rather happy about it and the few that aren't are not people you want to hang out with.
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Old 09-26-22, 11:02 PM
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I don't care if it's throttle, PAS or whatever - as long as it's not going too fast for the conditions. When I feel that nagging "ooh, he's not pedaling" judgment rearing its ugly head, I just tell myself - it's one less car. And that's true - I don't care as long as someone isn't poisoning the air and busting up the roads - as long as they are riding carefully and safely for the conditions and it doesn't have a gas motor, they can ride on MUPS with me or any pathways. You probably never thought about it, but there can be reasons someone isn't pedaling other than just being lazy (which it sounds like you assume). Some people have medical conditions that you may. not know about or understand. For example, I have myasthenia gravis. The more i exercise, the weaker I get. So there are times if I push really hard (meaning I'm not using my motor to get max exercise) I may not have the physical ability to pedal my way home. It's only happened to me once so far, I'm getting better at figuring out my limits, but that throttle got me home on that one day. There are other physical conditions which can limit someone's ability to pedal as well (I could tell you all about them but you probably don't care). My point is just stop being so judgmental about how people ride and instead be glad they are riding instead of driving and that they are still able to enjoy cycling even though their health is a limitation.
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Old 09-27-22, 07:05 AM
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From the article: "My daughter is 12 and rides our e-bike while we ride acoustic bikes"

What in the heck is an acoustic bike? Do we need another Forum category?

Well, I Googled it and discovered that it's a word play on the difference between electric and acoustic guitars. Rather lame, I'd say.
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Old 09-27-22, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
You did take it wrong, I am in the US, I just don't classify mopeds as bicycles. The class 2 which you are referring to is generally a grey area in a lot of places and while they call them bicycles, they are throttled and a bicycle requires pedaling to move forward. If people want to ride throttled vehicles they should keep to roads for vehicles and off of MUPs and dedicated bicycle lanes and pedestrian paths.
I see you as a huge threat and a threat to your own possible future. Be careful what you want to overregulate.
I am part of a bicycle group that rides three days a week on MUP. There are currently 18 of us and 3 are on regular bikes and 15 on E bicycles. These are all E bicycles that are meant to be pedaled and not throttled and most of them have a throttle. If you eliminated throttle, you would eliminate half of our riding group, mostly those over 80 and put them on the couch. They use the throttle to get up to a good balancing speed and get through the lights before they change. They also find the throttle to be a great stress reliever because they never know when they are just going to bonk. Our rides are 20 miles. The two octogenarians who are against E bicycles in our group often pass or park somewhere to ride a much shorter route. They ride less than half as far as those on their E bicycles, complain more and fall a couple times a season. You would condemn them to a nursing home or make them ride on busy roads if you get your way and yourself when you age out.
Don't tell me it's OK for grandma but not for a 20 something person. You are talking blank across the board with no exceptions. You have no idea what issues you are dealing with when you see someone on an E bicycle not pedaling.
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Old 09-27-22, 07:59 AM
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Smile

Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
From the article: "My daughter is 12 and rides our e-bike while we ride acoustic bikes"

What in the heck is an acoustic bike? Do we need another Forum category?

Well, I Googled it and discovered that it's a word play on the difference between electric and acoustic guitars. Rather lame, I'd say.
Would you prefer acoustic bike over Analog bike or Dinosaur bike?
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Old 09-27-22, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by KPREN View Post
Would you prefer acoustic bike over Analog bike or Dinosaur bike?
I'd ride a dinosaur bike

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Old 09-27-22, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
You did take it wrong, I am in the US, I just don't classify mopeds as bicycles. The class 2 which you are referring to is generally a grey area in a lot of places and while they call them bicycles, they are throttled and a bicycle requires pedaling to move forward. If people want to ride throttled vehicles they should keep to roads for vehicles and off of MUPs and dedicated bicycle lanes and pedestrian paths.


Nope don't feel that bicycles should be licensed and registered, mopeds and throttled vehicles are fine if they so choose to. As far as speed limited, just to 28mph pedal assist or class 3. If I want to go really fast I would probably be best off on a motorcycle ideally with good brakes and designed for such.

I know people here love to get excited by throttles and I guess if you limit them to 15mph or less they are less problematic(ish) but really they just need to be off of pedestrian paths and bicycle paths and everything is generally fine.

The reason a lot of people dislike e-bikes is throttled vehicles being called bicycles and being treated as bicycles. If we are realistic about things we can change this.

Also if you want to talk legality, there are plenty of much worse things that were at one point classified as legal that aren't any more and most people are rather happy about it and the few that aren't are not people you want to hang out with.
Here, these have throttles as well.



Considering how many "acoustic", human power bikes have caused numerous injuries and deaths in NYC as of late, I believe your "opinion" is archaic, and is the reason why we have so many issues with electric bikes as a whole. Standard cyclists tend to be more dangerous, but your fixation on throttles is what the real problem is. The comical part is the fact throttles are speed limited to 20mph, but the average cyclist riding a road bike tops that most of the time. And my ebikes are the same, but pedaling I hit higher speeds. Do some actual research, as OPINIONS are just that,...
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Old 09-27-22, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by KPREN View Post
I see you as a huge threat and a threat to your own possible future. Be careful what you want to overregulate.
I am part of a bicycle group that rides three days a week on MUP. There are currently 18 of us and 3 are on regular bikes and 15 on E bicycles. These are all E bicycles that are meant to be pedaled and not throttled and most of them have a throttle. If you eliminated throttle, you would eliminate half of our riding group, mostly those over 80 and put them on the couch. They use the throttle to get up to a good balancing speed and get through the lights before they change. They also find the throttle to be a great stress reliever because they never know when they are just going to bonk. Our rides are 20 miles. The two octogenarians who are against E bicycles in our group often pass or park somewhere to ride a much shorter route. They ride less than half as far as those on their E bicycles, complain more and fall a couple times a season. You would condemn them to a nursing home or make them ride on busy roads if you get your way and yourself when you age out.
Don't tell me it's OK for grandma but not for a 20 something person. You are talking blank across the board with no exceptions. You have no idea what issues you are dealing with when you see someone on an E bicycle not pedaling.
I do like the band Minor Threat (though prefer Ian's later band Fugazi a bit more) but not threatening anyone.
No overregulation just trying to make sure we aren't classifying something that really isn't a bicycle as a bicycle and causing issues for bicycles. I get that there are older people and such but plenty of places to ride where a throttle is sensible. We see a lot of riders who are septa and octagenarians and one who is almost 90 and they ride throttle-less e-bikes and no real issues and if they did need a throttle most of them ride on the road anyway so if they got a different bike they could get one. No need to be stuck to busy roads all the time I know that must be the only option it can only be on pedestrian and multi use paths and I guess a highway or something but there are plenty of lower traffic roads in a lot of places.
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Old 09-27-22, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by tds101 View Post
Here, these have throttles as well.



Considering how many "acoustic", human power bikes have caused numerous injuries and deaths in NYC as of late, I believe your "opinion" is archaic, and is the reason why we have so many issues with electric bikes as a whole. Standard cyclists tend to be more dangerous, but your fixation on throttles is what the real problem is. The comical part is the fact throttles are speed limited to 20mph, but the average cyclist riding a road bike tops that most of the time. And my ebikes are the same, but pedaling I hit higher speeds. Do some actual research, as OPINIONS are just that,...
Not saying acoustic bikes can't be a problem on a MUP or elsewhere. Throttles on class 2 mopeds are legally defined as 20mph but still that will be too fast for most MUPs and certainly for pedestrian paths and plenty of faster bikes with throttles going around. And yes I am aware some roadies and triathletes and others use them to go faster sometimes and that is not good either but hopefully we knew that.
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Old 09-27-22, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Not saying acoustic bikes can't be a problem on a MUP or elsewhere. Throttles on class 2 mopeds are legally defined as 20mph but still that will be too fast for most MUPs and certainly for pedestrian paths and plenty of faster bikes with throttles going around. And yes I am aware some roadies and triathletes and others use them to go faster sometimes and that is not good either but hopefully we knew that.
You're wasting our time with your ridiculousness.
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Old 09-27-22, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by tds101 View Post
You're r wasting our time with your ridiculousness.
Cool! Glad you are having fun. Let's just all get motorcycles and ride them everywhere could be more fun than this.
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Old 09-27-22, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Cool! Glad you are having fun. Let's just all get motorcycles and ride them everywhere could be more fun than this.
Ah, here we go again with the "motorcycle" stupidity again.
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Old 09-27-22, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by tds101 View Post
Ah, here we go again with the "motorcycle" stupidity again.
Well if we are talking about what you are talking about we would be talking mopeds, I was talking motorcycles you know like a Harley or Hayabusa or something.
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Old 09-27-22, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Well if we are talking about what you are talking about we would be talking mopeds, I was talking motorcycles you know like a Harley or Hayabusa or something.
And an ebike with a throttle is nothing like a motorcycle. But, as usual, you attempt to pull this pathetic argument out of your,...hat,...🤣🤣🤣
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