Are bicycles which require proprietary parts an unwise purchase?
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Two very popular bikes, the Trek Domane and Specialized Roubaix have a slew of proprietary junk in the headset and/or seatpost area for shock absorption. Some of these shock features look like a future problem to me. Some bikes also have proprietary stems for cabling or simply a nonstandard diameter but those are probably not future challenges to solve, just getting your fit correct initially and buying a new $300 Canyon stem when you know the one shipping with the bike is wrong.
#27
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If you do a lot of high mile multi day charity rides it might be an issue. For instance I popped a spoke on a Magic Open Sport. I was able to carefully make it to the next rest stop. The mechanic said I was lucky that he could reseat the spoke since it was a “proprietary” Mavic spoke that he didn’t have. Still had a day and a half to go.
I bought a new set of wheels and had the wheelmaker send me spare spokes. I carry them in a small tube on long multi day rides.
I bought a new set of wheels and had the wheelmaker send me spare spokes. I carry them in a small tube on long multi day rides.
Last edited by Freerojo; 06-10-22 at 10:29 AM.
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Did some club TT's in my late teens.
I've a 2018 Cervelo R3 that I'm extremely happy with.
But it didn't stop me buying a 2022 Cervelo R5.
The heart wants what the heart wants.
Barry
Last edited by Barry2; 06-10-22 at 10:35 AM. Reason: Typo
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I would prefer non-proprietary parts..If I need a part I want to be able to go to an LBS or one of the online shops to get the part. Seems that more bikes have a part or two on them lately that is proprietary. Those parts may not be readily available, especially as time goes by, and maybe the design changes or the original has a problem causing many to need a replacement.
If I could get a bike I like with standardized parts, that's the way I'd go. A proprietary part would not completely eliminate it from consideration, but if one similar existed with non-pro parts, well.......
If I could get a bike I like with standardized parts, that's the way I'd go. A proprietary part would not completely eliminate it from consideration, but if one similar existed with non-pro parts, well.......
Last edited by freeranger; 06-10-22 at 03:38 PM.
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I would not worry that much. A bicycle begins as a frame, which is proprietary, but seldom fails. Then it is dressed with components that are pretty much standard. I have a recumbent bike and trike, and of course their frames are proprietary, but the wheels gearing pedals etc I can buy almost anywhere.
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Yes, we know.
Last edited by Rolla; 06-10-22 at 12:54 PM.
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#33
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If looking for a new bike I might use the lack of certain proprietary stuff to break any ties between the winning choice of two or three bikes.
But not to eliminate any possible contender from being in that final selection group.
If you are busting the bank and taking out a second mortgage then you should consider more things very carefully besides just this
But not to eliminate any possible contender from being in that final selection group.
If you are busting the bank and taking out a second mortgage then you should consider more things very carefully besides just this
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Generally yes I would avoid proprietary parts sometimes it is unavoidable but certainly if it is proprietary to that particular bike and nobody else is making those parts I would avoid it. If you have a part that other manufacturers are making then you are generally good or potentially if they are using it on multiple models over multiple years it is not so bad. The important thing is availability and support if it isn't there I would avoid it.
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While I love my Look Kg386 it comes with a 25mm instead of a 25.4mm seatpost. 25mm Look Ergo posts are good but pricey and increasingly difficult to find
https://www.bellatisport.com/shop/pr..._diameter.html
I have ground down a 25.4mm post but heard a cracking sound. I now ride with a steel post inside my ground down seatpost.
https://www.bellatisport.com/shop/pr..._diameter.html
I have ground down a 25.4mm post but heard a cracking sound. I now ride with a steel post inside my ground down seatpost.
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Thinking about it, there aren’t really that many truly proprietary parts on a modern road bike. Seatposts are the obvious one of course and I think it is probably worth avoiding those unless you really do want the marginal aero gain from an aero-section post or compliance from a D-section post. As it happens my Giant Defy has a proprietary D-shaped seatpost, but it is very comfortable and I don’t expect it to be that difficult to replace in the unlikely event of failure. If I was planning to keep the bike for 20 years I would maybe buy a spare post.
I think the worst scenario is when you have a proprietary part that doesn’t function very well or is a pita in some way. In other words a part that you would change if you had an alternative choice. Sestposts can sometimes fall into this category if for example they have a crappy seat clamp or you can’t get the right amount of setback.
I think the worst scenario is when you have a proprietary part that doesn’t function very well or is a pita in some way. In other words a part that you would change if you had an alternative choice. Sestposts can sometimes fall into this category if for example they have a crappy seat clamp or you can’t get the right amount of setback.
Certainly the Specialized Aethos was an attempt to recognize that there is a (perhaps niche) market for high end bikes that don't rely on proprietary stuff, though it's just not what anyone would consider really to be an aero bike.
As a follow-on to this, I would never consider a few-year-old used bike with proprietary parts.
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Unwise? If we take a step back and look at things, financial practicality is already well and truly out of the window when it comes to bike purchases like this. If something slightly less practical - in an event/failure that may never come to pass - speaks to you in a way that would make ownership and riding more enjoyable, just do it as long as it's within your means.
Why go 90% if the last 10% is what really matters?
Why go 90% if the last 10% is what really matters?
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a low volume bike with a unique and extremely unusual part in a critical area … i’d probably steer clear of that.
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I care very little about recumbents, but my remark doesn't say anything about my knowledge; it simply says that we all know you ride one. Read it again.
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Monsieur, I believe that seat post is not proprietary. It is French! My Peugeot has French post, stem, headset, and Bottom Bracket.
I bought it in 1982 completely unaware that many of the parts off of my recently demolished Motobecane would not fit the replacement frame.
But 0.4 mm. on a part wasn't beyond what emory cloth would safely remove, I guess there is proprietary and there is proprietary, and there are dueling standards.
I bought it in 1982 completely unaware that many of the parts off of my recently demolished Motobecane would not fit the replacement frame.
But 0.4 mm. on a part wasn't beyond what emory cloth would safely remove, I guess there is proprietary and there is proprietary, and there are dueling standards.
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Yes. 25mm is French and not the possession of a particular company and therefore for not proprietary. Perhaps my problem is different. The problem for me is that the French standard has not reached China, where I buy the parts, that are made there, and there are not many 25mm parts made even in France. Look moved to imperial 27.2mm in subsequent frames.
I think I was too aggressive with my sandpaper.
I think I was too aggressive with my sandpaper.
Last edited by timtak; 06-19-22 at 06:32 AM.
#44
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I'm confused.
You say you’ve already got a great road bike.
Then you go on to say you ride for fun and aren’t a racer.
Why would you want a nearly identical bike that’s a teeny bit faster aerodynamically?
We can go deeper still. Mountain Unicycle, a fixed gear mountain bike, or a Surly with a bunch of BS on it for commuting or touring (it’ll never leave the garage and that’s ok).
You could grow a mustache and an attitude and get something steel.?
All of these things seem more fun than a slightly slippery spare road bike.
As for proprietary stuff, it’s fine until it’s not. I wouldn’t do it if I were heavier, since new parts are a given. I wouldn’t do it if you expect good resale on the bike. I’m sure it all works great though.
You say you’ve already got a great road bike.
Then you go on to say you ride for fun and aren’t a racer.
Why would you want a nearly identical bike that’s a teeny bit faster aerodynamically?
We can go deeper still. Mountain Unicycle, a fixed gear mountain bike, or a Surly with a bunch of BS on it for commuting or touring (it’ll never leave the garage and that’s ok).
You could grow a mustache and an attitude and get something steel.?
All of these things seem more fun than a slightly slippery spare road bike.
As for proprietary stuff, it’s fine until it’s not. I wouldn’t do it if I were heavier, since new parts are a given. I wouldn’t do it if you expect good resale on the bike. I’m sure it all works great though.
I think I have decided that I am going to buy a nice heavy classic steel frame fully kitted with bombproof wheels and tyres and luggage racks to compliment and disappear for a couple of weeks. Sounds like the best holiday ever and something I could do year after year. So thanks for reminding me!
Yes, proprietary parts are probably somewhat unwise for mere mortals but if somebody really likes something then why not?
Last edited by dja1; 06-12-22 at 04:16 PM.
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Now that sounds like a good plan!
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If you want proprietary go all the way and check out Look, like this 795 aerolight with Zed 3 cranks:
https://www.racycles.com/bikes/road/...frameset-12058
scott s.
.
https://www.racycles.com/bikes/road/...frameset-12058
scott s.
.
#47
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If you want proprietary go all the way and check out Look, like this 795 aerolight with Zed 3 cranks:
https://www.racycles.com/bikes/road/...frameset-12058
scott s.
.
https://www.racycles.com/bikes/road/...frameset-12058
scott s.
.
#48
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The wind-shielded brakes, internal cables, fancy headset and seat mast of bikes like Look 795 Aerolight and the Canyon Aeroad all result in a considerable reduction in frame drag. I would like an aero frame.
However, according to BikeGremlin (the new Sheldon Brown imho, if there could be another)
"the average rider power requirements on a course with a zero net elevation gain is broken down into 60% rider drag, 8% wheel drag, 8% frame drag, 12% rolling resistance 0.5% wheel inertia forces and 8% bike/rider inertia."
or in other words
"rider [not frame] aerodynamics dominates the power requirements of racing bikes"
Now, looking at the Look 795 Aerolight and the Canyon Aeroad it seems to me that they have a fairly tall head tube (M: 147mm and 161mm respectively).
My older, far less aerodynamically refined bikes have head tubes of less than 14cm including the external bearings.
Metalic Chili by Timothy Takemoto, on Flickr
Since rider aerodynamics make up 60% of drag, I think that the savings due to having an aerodynamic frame are likely to be lost due to the more relaxed rider position.So rather than getting a super aerodynamic frame, it may be expedient to ride an older non-aero bike, till one can get long and low on it.
Long and low oh, Long and Low.
However, according to BikeGremlin (the new Sheldon Brown imho, if there could be another)
"the average rider power requirements on a course with a zero net elevation gain is broken down into 60% rider drag, 8% wheel drag, 8% frame drag, 12% rolling resistance 0.5% wheel inertia forces and 8% bike/rider inertia."
or in other words
"rider [not frame] aerodynamics dominates the power requirements of racing bikes"
Now, looking at the Look 795 Aerolight and the Canyon Aeroad it seems to me that they have a fairly tall head tube (M: 147mm and 161mm respectively).
My older, far less aerodynamically refined bikes have head tubes of less than 14cm including the external bearings.
Metalic Chili by Timothy Takemoto, on Flickr
Since rider aerodynamics make up 60% of drag, I think that the savings due to having an aerodynamic frame are likely to be lost due to the more relaxed rider position.So rather than getting a super aerodynamic frame, it may be expedient to ride an older non-aero bike, till one can get long and low on it.
Long and low oh, Long and Low.
Last edited by timtak; 06-13-22 at 12:04 AM. Reason: bold for rider and frame drag
#49
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This reply really put it into perspective for me given what I was originally thinking. The bike market is becoming a big scam I think and is just sucking people into fads to get money off them. I honestly think I almost fell victim to this and have been trying to feel a void in my life with unnecessary consumerism.
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Since rider aerodynamics make up 60% of drag, I think that the savings due to having an aerodynamic frame are likely to be lost due to the more relaxed rider position.So rather than getting a super aerodynamic frame, it may be expedient to ride an older non-aero bike, till one can get long and low on it.