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Are bicycles which require proprietary parts an unwise purchase?

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Are bicycles which require proprietary parts an unwise purchase?

Old 06-10-22, 07:02 AM
  #26  
GhostRider62
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Two very popular bikes, the Trek Domane and Specialized Roubaix have a slew of proprietary junk in the headset and/or seatpost area for shock absorption. Some of these shock features look like a future problem to me. Some bikes also have proprietary stems for cabling or simply a nonstandard diameter but those are probably not future challenges to solve, just getting your fit correct initially and buying a new $300 Canyon stem when you know the one shipping with the bike is wrong.
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Old 06-10-22, 10:26 AM
  #27  
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If you do a lot of high mile multi day charity rides it might be an issue. For instance I popped a spoke on a Magic Open Sport. I was able to carefully make it to the next rest stop. The mechanic said I was lucky that he could reseat the spoke since it was a “proprietary” Mavic spoke that he didn’t have. Still had a day and a half to go.

I bought a new set of wheels and had the wheelmaker send me spare spokes. I carry them in a small tube on long multi day rides.

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Old 06-10-22, 10:32 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by rosefarts
Then you go on to say you ride for fun and aren’t a racer.
Now I’m lost. Why would you want a nearly identical bike that’s a teeny bit faster aerodynamically?
I'm 58 yrs old and have never raced, ever.
Did some club TT's in my late teens.
I've a 2018 Cervelo R3 that I'm extremely happy with.
But it didn't stop me buying a 2022 Cervelo R5.

The heart wants what the heart wants.

Barry

Last edited by Barry2; 06-10-22 at 10:35 AM. Reason: Typo
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Old 06-10-22, 10:42 AM
  #29  
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I would prefer non-proprietary parts..If I need a part I want to be able to go to an LBS or one of the online shops to get the part. Seems that more bikes have a part or two on them lately that is proprietary. Those parts may not be readily available, especially as time goes by, and maybe the design changes or the original has a problem causing many to need a replacement.
If I could get a bike I like with standardized parts, that's the way I'd go. A proprietary part would not completely eliminate it from consideration, but if one similar existed with non-pro parts, well.......

Last edited by freeranger; 06-10-22 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 06-10-22, 11:19 AM
  #30  
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I would not worry that much. A bicycle begins as a frame, which is proprietary, but seldom fails. Then it is dressed with components that are pretty much standard. I have a recumbent bike and trike, and of course their frames are proprietary, but the wheels gearing pedals etc I can buy almost anywhere.
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Old 06-10-22, 11:22 AM
  #31  
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Old 06-10-22, 12:51 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by rydabent
I would not worry that much. A bicycle begins as a frame, which is proprietary, but seldom fails. Then it is dressed with components that are pretty much standard.
Except when they aren't. Welcome to the present:





Originally Posted by rydabent
I have a recumbent bike and trike
Yes, we know.

Last edited by Rolla; 06-10-22 at 12:54 PM.
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Old 06-10-22, 01:43 PM
  #33  
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If looking for a new bike I might use the lack of certain proprietary stuff to break any ties between the winning choice of two or three bikes.

But not to eliminate any possible contender from being in that final selection group.

If you are busting the bank and taking out a second mortgage then you should consider more things very carefully besides just this
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Old 06-10-22, 02:53 PM
  #34  
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Generally yes I would avoid proprietary parts sometimes it is unavoidable but certainly if it is proprietary to that particular bike and nobody else is making those parts I would avoid it. If you have a part that other manufacturers are making then you are generally good or potentially if they are using it on multiple models over multiple years it is not so bad. The important thing is availability and support if it isn't there I would avoid it.
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Old 06-11-22, 01:09 AM
  #35  
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While I love my Look Kg386 it comes with a 25mm instead of a 25.4mm seatpost. 25mm Look Ergo posts are good but pricey and increasingly difficult to find
https://www.bellatisport.com/shop/pr..._diameter.html
I have ground down a 25.4mm post but heard a cracking sound. I now ride with a steel post inside my ground down seatpost.
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Old 06-11-22, 06:53 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Thinking about it, there aren’t really that many truly proprietary parts on a modern road bike. Seatposts are the obvious one of course and I think it is probably worth avoiding those unless you really do want the marginal aero gain from an aero-section post or compliance from a D-section post. As it happens my Giant Defy has a proprietary D-shaped seatpost, but it is very comfortable and I don’t expect it to be that difficult to replace in the unlikely event of failure. If I was planning to keep the bike for 20 years I would maybe buy a spare post.

I think the worst scenario is when you have a proprietary part that doesn’t function very well or is a pita in some way. In other words a part that you would change if you had an alternative choice. Sestposts can sometimes fall into this category if for example they have a crappy seat clamp or you can’t get the right amount of setback.
Considering the OP's consideration of eg. an aero Canyon (Aeroad), I'm not sure how much is proprietary. It looks proprietary.. but maybe you could install any stem and bar you want on that bike? Single piece construction stem/bars, certainly makes tweaking fit challenging later. Not sure if you can really ever tweak for that matter things like stem angle, stem length and/or combo with differing bar widths.

Certainly the Specialized Aethos was an attempt to recognize that there is a (perhaps niche) market for high end bikes that don't rely on proprietary stuff, though it's just not what anyone would consider really to be an aero bike.

Originally Posted by 70sSanO
If you turn your bikes over every 5-10 years, or have access to a machine shop, I wouldn't worry about it.
As a follow-on to this, I would never consider a few-year-old used bike with proprietary parts.
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Old 06-11-22, 07:39 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Rolla
Except when they aren't. Welcome to the present:







Yes, we know.
Say or think anything you want. I have replaces shifters and derailers, chain rings, and other components with no problem. Your snide remark says you know very little about recumbents.
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Old 06-11-22, 08:00 AM
  #38  
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Unwise? If we take a step back and look at things, financial practicality is already well and truly out of the window when it comes to bike purchases like this. If something slightly less practical - in an event/failure that may never come to pass - speaks to you in a way that would make ownership and riding more enjoyable, just do it as long as it's within your means.

Why go 90% if the last 10% is what really matters?
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Old 06-11-22, 08:18 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
Two very popular bikes, the Trek Domane and Specialized Roubaix have a slew of proprietary junk in the headset and/or seatpost area for shock absorption. Some of these shock features look like a future problem to me. …
i would be more wary of proprietary parts like the future shock if they weren’t in so many bikes. between the roubaix, diverge, creo, vado sl, sirrus, and probably others there are enough of these out there that parts or replacement solutions should be available for a long time. people have “deleted” them with new forks and/or some minor machining, and of course the stem and bars are totally standard.

a low volume bike with a unique and extremely unusual part in a critical area … i’d probably steer clear of that.
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Old 06-11-22, 09:17 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by rydabent
I have replaces shifters and derailers, chain rings, and other components with no problem.
As have I. But this discussion is about bikes that require proprietary parts. Because your contraption doesn't, you seem to doubt they exist. For your enlightenment, I provided photos of what the rest of us are talking about.

Originally Posted by rydabent
Your snide remark says you know very little about recumbents.
I care very little about recumbents, but my remark doesn't say anything about my knowledge; it simply says that we all know you ride one. Read it again.
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Old 06-11-22, 02:13 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by drlogik
Yes.
What he said.
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Old 06-11-22, 06:54 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by timtak
...it comes with a 25mm instead of a 25.4mm seatpost. 25m...
Monsieur, I believe that seat post is not proprietary. It is French! My Peugeot has French post, stem, headset, and Bottom Bracket.

I bought it in 1982 completely unaware that many of the parts off of my recently demolished Motobecane would not fit the replacement frame.

But 0.4 mm. on a part wasn't beyond what emory cloth would safely remove, I guess there is proprietary and there is proprietary, and there are dueling standards.
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Old 06-12-22, 01:42 AM
  #43  
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Yes. 25mm is French and not the possession of a particular company and therefore for not proprietary. Perhaps my problem is different. The problem for me is that the French standard has not reached China, where I buy the parts, that are made there, and there are not many 25mm parts made even in France. Look moved to imperial 27.2mm in subsequent frames.

I think I was too aggressive with my sandpaper.

Last edited by timtak; 06-19-22 at 06:32 AM.
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Old 06-12-22, 04:12 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by rosefarts
I'm confused.

You say you’ve already got a great road bike.
Then you go on to say you ride for fun and aren’t a racer.
Why would you want a nearly identical bike that’s a teeny bit faster aerodynamically?
We can go deeper still. Mountain Unicycle, a fixed gear mountain bike, or a Surly with a bunch of BS on it for commuting or touring (it’ll never leave the garage and that’s ok).
You could grow a mustache and an attitude and get something steel.?
All of these things seem more fun than a slightly slippery spare road bike.
As for proprietary stuff, it’s fine until it’s not. I wouldn’t do it if I were heavier, since new parts are a given. I wouldn’t do it if you expect good resale on the bike. I’m sure it all works great though.
This reply really put it into perspective for me given what I was originally thinking. The bike market is becoming a big scam I think and is just sucking people into fads to get money off them. I honestly think I almost fell victim to this and have been trying to feel a void in my life with unnecessary consumerism. I'm a big fan of wild camping and years ago I was thinking about how much I'd love to incorporate it into bicycle touring. Maybe it is time that I made this a reality.

I think I have decided that I am going to buy a nice heavy classic steel frame fully kitted with bombproof wheels and tyres and luggage racks to compliment and disappear for a couple of weeks. Sounds like the best holiday ever and something I could do year after year. So thanks for reminding me!

Yes, proprietary parts are probably somewhat unwise for mere mortals but if somebody really likes something then why not?

Last edited by dja1; 06-12-22 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 06-12-22, 06:28 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by dja1
The bike market is becoming a big scam I think and is just sucking people into fads to get money off them.
Disagree. For those who ride, train, and compete at the upper levels of the sport, they aren't fads. It's not the fault of the industry that people with an unrealistic view of themselves and their actual ability buy the newest, lightest, and most exclusive gear. Delusion is a powerful incentive.

Originally Posted by dja1
I think I have decided that I am going to buy a nice heavy classic steel frame fully kitted with bombproof wheels and tyres and luggage racks to compliment and disappear for a couple of weeks.
Now that sounds like a good plan!
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Old 06-12-22, 06:37 PM
  #46  
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If you want proprietary go all the way and check out Look, like this 795 aerolight with Zed 3 cranks:
https://www.racycles.com/bikes/road/...frameset-12058

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Old 06-12-22, 08:15 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by scott967
If you want proprietary go all the way and check out Look, like this 795 aerolight with Zed 3 cranks:
https://www.racycles.com/bikes/road/...frameset-12058

scott s.
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We had one in the shop a couple times and it was a nightmare to work on. I think they had it equipped with Di2. Neat looking but I wouldn't recommend it personally.
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Old 06-12-22, 11:58 PM
  #48  
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The wind-shielded brakes, internal cables, fancy headset and seat mast of bikes like Look 795 Aerolight and the Canyon Aeroad all result in a considerable reduction in frame drag. I would like an aero frame.

However, according to BikeGremlin (the new Sheldon Brown imho, if there could be another)
"the average rider power requirements on a course with a zero net elevation gain is broken down into 60% rider drag, 8% wheel drag, 8% frame drag, 12% rolling resistance 0.5% wheel inertia forces and 8% bike/rider inertia."
or in other words
"rider [not frame] aerodynamics dominates the power requirements of racing bikes"

Now, looking at the Look 795 Aerolight and the Canyon Aeroad it seems to me that they have a fairly tall head tube (M: 147mm and 161mm respectively).

My older, far less aerodynamically refined bikes have head tubes of less than 14cm including the external bearings.

Metalic Chili by Timothy Takemoto, on Flickr

Since rider aerodynamics make up 60% of drag, I think that the savings due to having an aerodynamic frame are likely to be lost due to the more relaxed rider position.So rather than getting a super aerodynamic frame, it may be expedient to ride an older non-aero bike, till one can get long and low on it.

Long and low oh, Long and Low.

Last edited by timtak; 06-13-22 at 12:04 AM. Reason: bold for rider and frame drag
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Old 06-13-22, 03:35 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by dja1
This reply really put it into perspective for me given what I was originally thinking. The bike market is becoming a big scam I think and is just sucking people into fads to get money off them. I honestly think I almost fell victim to this and have been trying to feel a void in my life with unnecessary consumerism.
It's not a scam. There is simply more choice of bike today. Obviously buying a full-on carbon aero race bike is a very bad idea if what you really want to do is go touring! I doubt any of the bike manufacturers are marketing their aero race bikes for that kind of use are they?
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Old 06-13-22, 03:40 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by timtak

Since rider aerodynamics make up 60% of drag, I think that the savings due to having an aerodynamic frame are likely to be lost due to the more relaxed rider position.So rather than getting a super aerodynamic frame, it may be expedient to ride an older non-aero bike, till one can get long and low on it.
So you think all the pro-tour riders on modern aero bikes are losing out?
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