mattm

Fwiw there are some books (Friel for instance) that says the gym can be about both - but more importantly that the types of lifting body builders do (to get bigger muscles) has little to do with what cyclists need.

The thinking in general is that cyclists gain more by doing more reps with less weight, rather than fewer reps with more weight.

mattm

This is golden

Ygduf

don't invest too much. I'm not careful about checking my lunch against USADA!

Ttoc6

EZ spin for an hour on the trainer. Little dorky, but I'm only about 200 miles from unlocking the s-works Tarmac on zwift. So I just turned it on in the background to rack up the miles and watched breaking bad.

Hoping to get my cx bike assembled tomorrow night so I can go race the first weeknight cross race on Wednesday. Headset bearing are supposed to get here tomo. 1x ring is supposed to get here tomorrow and the local shop has the hydraulic cables I need. Just have to get the brakes bled and rear derailleur set up.

jsk

IMHO this sort of conventional wisdom about strength training belongs right up there with the notion that any intensity on the bike during a traditional base training phase is counter-productive.

I'm not going to say you'll get no benefit at all from doing high-rep low-weight work, because just about anything you do will have some benefit (especially at first). But IMHO there are better ways to spend your time. I'd recommend big-gear work and standing starts on the bike over high-rep weight work, for instance.

The ironic thing is, it's precisely the bodybuilders looking for size rather than strength who do the type of work that some people recommend for endurance athletes: more reps, lower weight, time under tension, and just a lot of training volume in general. It's the strength/power athletes who favor higher intensity and lower volume. The heavier weights are better for training your CNS to actually recruit more of your muscle and so you get more strength per lb of muscle mass compared to a hypertrophy-based training plan.

Another thing I've found: once you build up to heavier weights, the shorter, more intense sets actually take less of a toll in terms of fatigue and recovery, so I've found they interfere with on the bike training less than a high-volume approach with lighter weights.

It's been a while since I read Friel, but I'd be surprised if he recommends 50-rep sets anymore (if he ever did). I do seem to recall Friel (or maybe it was Chapple) recommending that you start out with more somewhat lighter weights and moderately high reps and then progressing to heavier, more intense sets over time. That's probably not a bad idea if someone is new to lifting or even has experience but hasn't lifted in a while. Basically you're starting out learning (or relearning) the movements with good form, before progressing to weights that are heavy enough to cause injury if form breaks down. But I would think you should be able to progress pretty quickly through that phase.

Ygduf

^^ best post yet.

anyway, from 5 minutes of reading the above matches what I came away with, but you can find 5 different strategies on the first 5 google results for "weightlifting for cyclists"

aaronmcd

Took the bike to the polo field track with the new 160mm Power2Max crankset tonight. So far they feel really good. Similar winds to last time with the old cranks. Not a direct comparison though because old cranks had stages, and I didn't have the Bluetooth speaker this time. But still.

Last time with 172.5 stages:
Aero hoods, 306w = 23.7mph

Today:
296w aero hoods = 24.7
294w IAB = 25.1
294w drops = 24.4

I did a full 20 minutes last time but this time it was rainy with lightning and it was late so I just did 5 minutes each. So I didn't get a really good feel for power comparison between the old stages and the P2M.

I havent moved the bars, so IAB is similar height as before. Aero hoods and drops are governed by degree of elbow bend so they were probably a bit lower in front. I may get a slightly longer stem now that I can actually lean forward but I don't think Ill end up getting a -17. I think the -6 I have has plenty of room for me to bend my elbows.

mattm

I probably misquoted Friel, but I thought what I said was the gist of it. However we can agree he never said anything about 50 reps. Here's what I could find, but I need to search the Bible to see what he says about all this.

Joe Friel - Should You Lift Weights?

https://www.trainingbible.com/bkp-all...th_Program.pdf

Anyway one thing missing from this discussion about weights is the phases. Just like with bike training, you don't just jump on the bike and start doing intervals (start with Base). His strength training program is similar - so maybe there's a time for low weights/high reps, and a time for high weight/short reps.

gsteinb

Actually, I'm pretty sure he did. I wish I had my first edition copy of training bible.

At any rate there is loads of stuff on the internet of 100 rep workouts, for a variety of sports, including cycling.

https://mtbcoach.com/training-sessio...ngth-workouts/

jsk

Well, that PDF would not be something I'd recommend as there's some dubious advice in there. Just because Friel is an expert on endurance training doesn't make him an expert on strength training (even for endurance athletes). The instructions for barbell squats and deadlifts are pretty awful, and I don't think leg curls/extensions are useful/necessary (except maybe for body builders).

As far as reps/set, higher reps are perfectly fine for body weight stuff like push-ups, plyometrics, etc.

Cyclists lifting weights once or twice a week don't need to get too complex in their strength programming. It's not like we're trying to peak for a key competition like a competitive lifter would. Volume might be slightly higher in the off-season and drop a bit later in the season, but other than that a simple linear progression will be just fine (gradually increase the weight over time, but otherwise keep to pretty much the same program). What works for me is to lift twice/week early in the season, then I can get away with once/week to maintain strength once the race season is in full swing.

mattm

The pdf does look outdated..

What I'm learning here is maybe you should be writing the books, not that Friel guy.

Ygduf

yeah but he already gave away the entire program for free!

Enthalpic

Freil doesn't even follow old Friel... I like that he is willing to change his opinions as new evidence comes in.

I know nothing.

globecanvas

I like that you spelled his name two different ways in the same sentence. Reminds me of this local establishment:



Not sure how to spell it? Split the difference!

globecanvas

I tried some @mattmerval high speed sprint practice today. The hardest part was thinking of a smooth road with a hill that leads into a straight with good visibility and low traffic. The spot I ended up trying worked great.

The only thing I'm not sure about is maybe the hill is too steep. I was consistently starting the sprint at 36-38 mph. That's faster than the sprint leadout for most of the races I do. Still, it was fun to go that fast and it felt fine to put power down at that speed.

TheKillerPenguin

what about the dip on my road when heading north, like right where my mailbox is? You can get up to 26-27mph without having to do much, like 100-120w.

mattm

faster the better!

it'll make sprints in actual races feel even easier.

at least, that's what i tell myself.

rankin116

Did my first lunch ride on my lunch break today. It worked out really well, despite the weird looks and diverted eyes of many coworkers. The people here just aren't into fitness of any sort, much like a large portion of the folks in rural NC. I must look like an alien to them.

5min of 15s on/15s off, 6x1min all out, 12min Z3, and will probably add 30-45 min on the rollers at an easy pace tonight. Cross is most definitely here y'all.

Ygduf

how's it spelled at hot W**ners 1 tho

furiousferret

You'll get used to that mixed look of guilt, confusion, and resentment soon enough.

globecanvas

Thought about that but it's not much of a hill, and visibility up the road is not great. Plus I terrorize your neighbors enough as it is.

TheKillerPenguin

I've been doing FTP stuff in the couple of weeks since the season ended. 2x20s, 2x30s, 4x15s, etc. the 2x30 is maybe my favorite thing, they're long enough that you can get into a nice groove, but not so hard that you want to die at the end. I actually thought about doing a 3rd one when I did these on Monday, but decided the amount of time it'd take to recover from it wasn't worth the extra interval. I think I'll try to work myself up to 2x45 at the same watts or higher, since there are a few months until base starts and I basically get to do whatever I want thru the end of October.

TMonk

Base for me starts (informally) in October. Until then I'm JRA and and trying to increase volume. Didn't stop me from slammin' a 5' interval up Balboa Avenue this morning. Power was, lower...

I've had a pretty low volume last two months. First it was genuine (warranted) laziness, then it was being busy with moving and work, then an injury. I've got a ways to go, but I'll be back before too long.

caloso

It's not been a good week for riding my bike, but I'll treat it like a recovery week.

miyata man

Is a rebus of hot weiner/wiener going to get me in trouble, probably.