Dura ace 9000 front mechanical: noise in large ring
07-30-21, 01:22 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Dura ace 9000 front mechanical: noise in large ring
Good day. Purchased a used bike a few days ago. Used is not quite accurate. It's a few model years old but and was told unridden. I believe the previous owner after inspecting and fitting/adjusting the bike myself.
Anyways, I've managed to sort the rear and front derailleur. Neither was terribly out.
In the small ring big cog (34x28) I have just a slight touch of the chain and plastic insert on the front mech. In the small ring small cog (34x11) it obviously cross chains as expected. The rest of the gears are dead silent and the front is silent.
Then shifting to the big ring, the chain doesn't physically appear to make any contact with the derailleur regardless of rear cog, except the big ring big cog (50x28). However, there is drive train noise that is audible in the rest of the cassette cogs and doesn't seem to be better or worse going shifting through the rest of the gears.
It's just while pedaling I can hear the drivetrain moving (metal roller type noise). While in the little ring the drivetrain is inaudible.
Is this simply an issue of chain line on the 11sp setup? I don't have anything to compare to really.
I'm only ridden a tiagra triple 9spd for a few years a decade ago which I never felt was setup right from the dealer and my most recent bike with 7sp campy Athena downtube shifters which is also kinda finicky.
I'm not a bike mechanic but do commercial electrical work and repair my own vehicles so not totally braindead. I followed the Shimano pdf for setting up the 9000 front derailleur. It has a gap about 1.5mm from the closest tooth and the angle has been adjusted per the manual so that it looks parallel to the large chain ring (on this bike the adjustment screw is almost fully backed out fwiw).
This is my first carbon framed bike. Is there a chance the frame could be a poor layup and have the bottom bracket or rear chain stays way out of spec?
The chain line from the small ring to the large cog (34x28) has a decent angle to it but I know without a gauge the angles and tubes and such can mess with one's eye.
And yes the rear wheel is seated and installed properly.
I can provide pictures if pictures would be of help.
Anyways, I've managed to sort the rear and front derailleur. Neither was terribly out.
In the small ring big cog (34x28) I have just a slight touch of the chain and plastic insert on the front mech. In the small ring small cog (34x11) it obviously cross chains as expected. The rest of the gears are dead silent and the front is silent.
Then shifting to the big ring, the chain doesn't physically appear to make any contact with the derailleur regardless of rear cog, except the big ring big cog (50x28). However, there is drive train noise that is audible in the rest of the cassette cogs and doesn't seem to be better or worse going shifting through the rest of the gears.
It's just while pedaling I can hear the drivetrain moving (metal roller type noise). While in the little ring the drivetrain is inaudible.
Is this simply an issue of chain line on the 11sp setup? I don't have anything to compare to really.
I'm only ridden a tiagra triple 9spd for a few years a decade ago which I never felt was setup right from the dealer and my most recent bike with 7sp campy Athena downtube shifters which is also kinda finicky.
I'm not a bike mechanic but do commercial electrical work and repair my own vehicles so not totally braindead. I followed the Shimano pdf for setting up the 9000 front derailleur. It has a gap about 1.5mm from the closest tooth and the angle has been adjusted per the manual so that it looks parallel to the large chain ring (on this bike the adjustment screw is almost fully backed out fwiw).
This is my first carbon framed bike. Is there a chance the frame could be a poor layup and have the bottom bracket or rear chain stays way out of spec?
The chain line from the small ring to the large cog (34x28) has a decent angle to it but I know without a gauge the angles and tubes and such can mess with one's eye.
And yes the rear wheel is seated and installed properly.
I can provide pictures if pictures would be of help.
Last edited by sayn3ver; 07-30-21 at 08:52 PM.
07-30-21, 02:03 PM
#2
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Since the noise is present across the cassette it's unlikely to be related to chainline. If the chain isn't actually rubbing on the FD and it shifts from cog to cog properly there isn't much left to do. Maybe lube the chain? Carbon frames can amplify drivetrain noise.
07-30-21, 04:18 PM
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Is it only in the 50/28 combo or the 50 and any combo. I was reading it as the 50/28 only and that might simply be cross chaining and the chain rubbing the inside cage of the front DR. It's somewhat normal. Some 11 speed bikes depending on chainstay length and chainline can be quieter when in the big bigs but typically the small smalls aren't bad. My '91 Paramount with 11 speed 105 5800 is very quiet in the big big, yet my Tarmac with Ultegra R8000 is noisy. The Tarmac is shorter in the chainstay.
If it's every rear combo when in the big front, then I've nothing to say other than take it to a shop and let them tune it up and see if there is anything that needs to be replaced. Cogs and chainwheels as well as chains wear out.
If the previous owner bought it new and never rode it much, he may never have taken it back to the shop to have that free tune up and inspection performed. While not all need it, frequently many do need some adjustment of the DR's that first time after the newness wears off. Though I see many riding bikes that won't even fully shift to every gear. Go figure.
If it's every rear combo when in the big front, then I've nothing to say other than take it to a shop and let them tune it up and see if there is anything that needs to be replaced. Cogs and chainwheels as well as chains wear out.
If the previous owner bought it new and never rode it much, he may never have taken it back to the shop to have that free tune up and inspection performed. While not all need it, frequently many do need some adjustment of the DR's that first time after the newness wears off. Though I see many riding bikes that won't even fully shift to every gear. Go figure.
07-30-21, 09:12 PM
#4
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Thread Starter
Is it only in the 50/28 combo or the 50 and any combo. I was reading it as the 50/28 only and that might simply be cross chaining and the chain rubbing the inside cage of the front DR. It's somewhat normal. Some 11 speed bikes depending on chainstay length and chainline can be quieter when in the big bigs but typically the small smalls aren't bad. My '91 Paramount with 11 speed 105 5800 is very quiet in the big big, yet my Tarmac with Ultegra R8000 is noisy. The Tarmac is shorter in the chainstay.
If it's every rear combo when in the big front, then I've nothing to say other than take it to a shop and let them tune it up and see if there is anything that needs to be replaced. Cogs and chainwheels as well as chains wear out.
If the previous owner bought it new and never rode it much, he may never have taken it back to the shop to have that free tune up and inspection performed. While not all need it, frequently many do need some adjustment of the DR's that first time after the newness wears off. Though I see many riding bikes that won't even fully shift to every gear. Go figure.
If it's every rear combo when in the big front, then I've nothing to say other than take it to a shop and let them tune it up and see if there is anything that needs to be replaced. Cogs and chainwheels as well as chains wear out.
If the previous owner bought it new and never rode it much, he may never have taken it back to the shop to have that free tune up and inspection performed. While not all need it, frequently many do need some adjustment of the DR's that first time after the newness wears off. Though I see many riding bikes that won't even fully shift to every gear. Go figure.
I edited my original post for grammar.
To be clear, with big ring big cog (50x28) I get expected cross chain type noise and just literally a touch of rub of the chain on the derailleur.
However, in any other cog while in the big ring I get a sound coming from the crank area. Using a flashlight as a backlight I just don't see the chain rubbing the derailleur, whether stationary nor while spinning without a load.
It doesn't sound like the traditional chain rubbing on the front derailleur. It just sounds like loud roller bearings. Shift into the small ring and its the most silent drive train I've owned in 10 out of 11 cogs. As in I cannot hear the drivetrain while riding in the small ring. Shift up and I get a roller bearing type whirling sound that is audible above road and wind noise. If it's normal then I'll let it go but I'm not above dropping it off at a local shop to have them look it over.
I'm also not sure what "normal" or "acceptable" noise is for these drive trains. I don't ever recall these noises on my cheap toys r us Mountain bike as a kid.
However my previous caad9 was never silent even right out of the showroom nor after bringing it back for it's complimentary tune up.
Ive been under the impression that a road double should basically be quiet in all but the extreme cross chain gear combinations but maybe my expectations do not match reality.
07-31-21, 07:14 AM
#5
Senior Member
Friend of mine has a Serotta Otrott that he bought new from Serotta. Has Sram Red 11 speed and it does the same thing. Noisy in the big ring, but not in the small ring. Remove the front derailleur and the noise is still there. Just the way it is.
FWIW, the Campagnolo Chorus 11 speed I run is perfectly silent in all gears except big big. Bike has 43cm chain stays which helps with clearing front derailleur cage in the extremes.
FWIW, the Campagnolo Chorus 11 speed I run is perfectly silent in all gears except big big. Bike has 43cm chain stays which helps with clearing front derailleur cage in the extremes.
08-13-21, 07:36 PM
#6
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Thread Starter
Put more miles on the bike. The big ring noise is still there in the two largest cogs but the noise has reduced a good amount with the rest of the cassette.
I guess the chain and chainrings are doing some wearing in and maybe meshing better?
The small ring is still dead silent.
I wiped the chain down, applied some nixfrixshun, spun the chain a few minutes then wiped the chain over and over and over until it was coming up dry and no longer leaking. Didn't make a difference for noise.
This was basically a NOS bike so I'm guessing cables will need a slight adjustment in another week or so.
Since I've been riding it more now, there doesn't appear to be any chain rub on the front mech either by sound or by visual inspection of the mech so I suppose it's just the chainline angle and the chain stay length of the Emonda frame?
I'm curious of anyone went from dura ace 9000 to 9100 regarding crankset and front mech and noticed any difference? I read the 9100 crank has the rings spaced a bit further apart to I guess prevent chain from rubbing on the large chain ring when I'm small ring small cogs? I would think that the extra space between would make the chainline situation worse and more noise in more cogs?
I guess the chain and chainrings are doing some wearing in and maybe meshing better?
The small ring is still dead silent.
I wiped the chain down, applied some nixfrixshun, spun the chain a few minutes then wiped the chain over and over and over until it was coming up dry and no longer leaking. Didn't make a difference for noise.
This was basically a NOS bike so I'm guessing cables will need a slight adjustment in another week or so.
Since I've been riding it more now, there doesn't appear to be any chain rub on the front mech either by sound or by visual inspection of the mech so I suppose it's just the chainline angle and the chain stay length of the Emonda frame?
I'm curious of anyone went from dura ace 9000 to 9100 regarding crankset and front mech and noticed any difference? I read the 9100 crank has the rings spaced a bit further apart to I guess prevent chain from rubbing on the large chain ring when I'm small ring small cogs? I would think that the extra space between would make the chainline situation worse and more noise in more cogs?
08-14-21, 09:22 AM
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I don’t know how much the chainring spacing differed between the 9000 and 9100, I can’t imagine it is more than tenths of a mm. It is not even close to the chainline gyrations of a 1x setup.
As far as the noise, as a stupid wild guess, the 16t change of a compact crank might place more chain tension while in the large chainring and that might result in more noise from the mechanical interaction than a 10t difference.
John
As far as the noise, as a stupid wild guess, the 16t change of a compact crank might place more chain tension while in the large chainring and that might result in more noise from the mechanical interaction than a 10t difference.
John
