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Stretching and resting

Old 05-28-21, 04:30 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by aclinjury
The study on stretching listed earlier is misleading when it says that stretching has no benefits. In the article, it cited the girls soccer team study, which found that 'warmups" prevent injuries..and that those warmups didn't specifically include stretching. Well guess what, when you're warming up.. you are effectively stretching your muscles.
Warm ups and stretching are not the same thing...Stretching before a workout can actually cause injuries....The best type of warm up before any physical activity is to do the actual physical activity. ..Example: the best way to warm up before cycling is to get on your bike an start riding, the best way to warm up before weight training is to start lifting weights etc etc etc.....Stretching has not been proven to be beneficial and can actually cause injuries or hinder recovery after a workout.
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Old 05-28-21, 04:30 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by aclinjury
The study on stretching listed earlier is misleading when it says that stretching has no benefits. In the article, it cited the girls soccer team study, which found that 'warmups" prevent injuries..and that those warmups didn't specifically include stretching. Well guess what, when you're warming up.. you are effectively stretching your muscles.

Oh, and one more thing-- if warmups stretch the muscles, why would you need stretches? For that matter, if warmups stretch the muscles, so do workouts. Basically, you just alleged that stretching doesn't do anything useful.
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Old 05-28-21, 04:36 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
Warm ups and stretching are not the same thing...Stretching before a workout can actually cause injuries....The best type of warm up before any physical activity is to do the actual physical activity. ..Example: the best way to warm up before cycling is to get on your bike an start riding, the best way to warm up before weight training is to start lifting weights etc etc etc.....Stretching has not been proven to be beneficial and can actually cause injuries or hinder recovery after a workout.

I think this was a bad attempt at gaslighting. "Guess what? All you people who say you're not stretching, you're stretching by using the muscles." You are right, it's total nonsense.
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Old 05-28-21, 05:48 AM
  #54  
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OP-If it takes you all summer to work up to 4-5 miles and then you lose that over the Winter, you should check with a doc. I can go months without riding and jump on and go 10-20 miles without problem other than a slightly sore butt (which goes away quickly if I keep riding). It could just be that this is your natural state and you are fine but it would not hurt to know for sure.

As for stretching, listen to your body. Everyone is different. I see a lot folks talking about stretching being useless and never doing it. That seems to work for them. I envy that. My experience is different. If I don't stretch my quads daily, they tighten up, cause my pelvis to tilt too much and generate lower back pain. If I don't stretch my shoulders, they tighten up and cause me pain. Once, after a year of tennis elbow, a substitute physical therapist showed me a stretch for my forearms that eliminated the pain within a few days. My main therapist had me working on my wrist strength and it was doing nothing for me. Stretch if it helps. Try different stretches and see how they work. Good luck.
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Old 05-28-21, 06:23 AM
  #55  
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I'm 63 and stretch for about 10 minutes every day before each ride. I also stretch for about 10 minutes before I go to bed at night. I drink lots of water too. The first thing I do is drink two large glasses of water when I wake up. I have found that I am much more alert, never get cramps and recover from each ride pretty quickly. I also feel "younger" and more nimble on the bike when I stretch.
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Old 05-28-21, 06:41 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
This has been studied to death, and stretching does not warm up your muscles. The two things have virtually nothing to do with each other. People looking for scientific reasons to stretch always end up grasping for straws like you just did.

Warming up is simply doing a milder version of the activity you're about to engage in or something very similar. Stretching is a special activity totally unlike the main activity of the workout, unless your workouts are yoga. All of the systematic studies of pre-workout stretching indicate that it adversely affects performance slightly and makes people slightly more prone to injury. "It's probably not that bad for you" is about as good as the case gets for stretching.

Some of us spent decades having gym instructors and the like forcing us to stretch even though it hurt and did nothing good for us. I'm just not very flexible (that's almost entirely genetic and really has next to nothing to do with bicycle performance), so making me stretch is a bit of a mini-torture. Consequently, I have no tolerance for people trying to tout benefits it doesn't bestow, and who insist that other people should do it.
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First of all, from reading you, I know you don't understand anatomy much.

Secondly, "stretching" has morphed over the years and decades. Today, when pro athletes refer to stretching, it's not the same stretching that you gramps did in the 50s, ok. Stretching today means to start out doing some activity to warm up the body, blood circulation, and muscles, while also incorporating in some traditional stretches.

Every pro athletes do this. Track athletes, runners, soccer players, they all do this on the fields before they actually go out and run hard.

Yet, you (oldies) are sitting here, are saying that you don't do stretching because it doesn't help. Well, you know it all, don't you? Meanwhile, in the real world, pro athletes all stretch.
And please, stop with trying to bring down the old ways of stretching (nobody does that anymore). You need to get updated with the modern sports science, amigo. This is not Leave It To Beaver era,ok.
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Old 05-28-21, 06:52 AM
  #57  
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I don't stretch as I've found over the years that more stretching = more injuries for me.

On the other hand, 45 minutes of daily foam rolling, massage sticks and lacrosse balls do seem to help me. I started rolling my legs and back out a few years ago and it seems to help me to recover when I'm doing lots of hard training. I've had no knee and IT band problems since I started rolling every day, something I used to struggle with. I like the Rollga and Trigger Point rollers.
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Old 05-28-21, 07:45 AM
  #58  
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I both stretch and rest
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Old 05-28-21, 09:53 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by aclinjury
First of all, from reading you, I know you don't understand anatomy much.

Secondly, "stretching" has morphed over the years and decades. Today, when pro athletes refer to stretching, it's not the same stretching that you gramps did in the 50s, ok. Stretching today means to start out doing some activity to warm up the body, blood circulation, and muscles, while also incorporating in some traditional stretches.

Every pro athletes do this. Track athletes, runners, soccer players, they all do this on the fields before they actually go out and run hard.

Yet, you (oldies) are sitting here, are saying that you don't do stretching because it doesn't help. Well, you know it all, don't you? Meanwhile, in the real world, pro athletes all stretch.
And please, stop with trying to bring down the old ways of stretching (nobody does that anymore). You need to get updated with the modern sports science, amigo. This is not Leave It To Beaver era,ok.
Your completely vapid ad hominem is noted.

Your screen name is an injury. Maybe people shouldn't be looking to you for advice on how to prevent them, huh?

It's adorable that you think no one's going to notice that all you're doing here is try to redefine stretching so that everybody is doing it.
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Old 05-28-21, 10:21 AM
  #60  
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Neither good nor bad, really doesn't matter.
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Old 05-28-21, 10:28 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Your completely vapid ad hominem is noted.

Your screen name is an injury. Maybe people shouldn't be looking to you for advice on how to prevent them, huh?

It's adorable that you think no one's going to notice that all you're doing here is try to redefine stretching so that everybody is doing it.
ok boomer. I'll note what the pro athletes do on the fields, you know, the very people who actually play sports for a living, and have a team of professional trainers advising them what to do to avoid injuries so they can continue to extend their livlihood. Yeah, i'll do what the pro athletes do, not what a bunch of boomers on here do. Nobody is gonna get injured from not stretching and warming up if their pace is a tourist pace, ok. lol take it easy man.

And yep I got injured crashing in a moto race at 120 mph. No amount of stretching is gonna save you when a liter bike is coming at 120mph you in a highside, ok amigo.
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Old 05-28-21, 10:53 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by aclinjury
ok boomer. I'll note what the pro athletes do on the fields, you know, the very people who actually play sports for a living, and have a team of professional trainers advising them what to do to avoid injuries so they can continue to extend their livlihood. Yeah, i'll do what the pro athletes do, not what a bunch of boomers on here do. Nobody is gonna get injured from not stretching and warming up if their pace is a tourist pace, ok. lol take it easy man.

And yep I got injured crashing in a moto race at 120 mph. No amount of stretching is gonna save you when a liter bike is coming at 120mph you in a highside, ok amigo.
Here you go.

https://www.painscience.com/articles/...sec_conclusion
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Old 05-28-21, 11:14 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by aclinjury
ok boomer. I'll note what the pro athletes do on the fields, you know, the very people who actually play sports for a living, and have a team of professional trainers advising them what to do to avoid injuries so they can continue to extend their livlihood. Yeah, i'll do what the pro athletes do, not what a bunch of boomers on here do. Nobody is gonna get injured from not stretching and warming up if their pace is a tourist pace, ok. lol take it easy man.

And yep I got injured crashing in a moto race at 120 mph. No amount of stretching is gonna save you when a liter bike is coming at 120mph you in a highside, ok amigo.

Yeah, well I ride plenty fast, bucko, and no one's accusing me of a tourist pace, and I've somehow managed to do it at age 60 without doing a bunch of weird warm up "see how far this body part will flex" moves.. But yes, this is general cycling and you have an OP in this thread from a person who's trying to figure out how to do a 5 mile ride without cramps, so of course whatever the Denver Nuggets are doing is clearly relevant to the discussion.

I don't care who you emulate and what your delusions of grandeur are, you went after a study for a completely invalid reason, and your response when called out on it is to go "grr, grrr, grrr, boomer, grr grrr." Says a lot about you, and it's not good.

Hey, pro athletes take a lot of EPO if they can get away with it. Should I do that too?
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Old 05-28-21, 11:17 AM
  #64  
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Yeah, i'll do what the pro athletes do, not what a bunch of boomers on here do.
Wow, you sure know how to win friends and influence people! I'm 63, a Baby Boomer and have been stretching ever since my competitive swimming days that started in high school and continued through college. I competed in cross country skiing while in college too. Spent many miles on the bike and rollerskis during the summer to stay in shape.

The whole stretch or not to stretch debate has been going on for years and apparently hasn't ended yet. Maybe we calm down a bit and recognize that all of us are at the age that we are going to do what we are going to do and not much stated on here will change that.

BTW, it's not good form to disparage a person by calling them a "Boomer". I know a few of Boomers who could pound most peoples' "Richard" in the dirt on a bike.

Just sayin'.....
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Old 05-28-21, 04:41 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by drlogik
Wow, you sure know how to win friends and influence people! I'm 63, a Baby Boomer and have been stretching ever since my competitive swimming days that started in high school and continued through college. I competed in cross country skiing while in college too. Spent many miles on the bike and rollerskis during the summer to stay in shape.

The whole stretch or not to stretch debate has been going on for years and apparently hasn't ended yet. Maybe we calm down a bit and recognize that all of us are at the age that we are going to do what we are going to do and not much stated on here will change that.

BTW, it's not good form to disparage a person by calling them a "Boomer". I know a few of Boomers who could pound most peoples' "Richard" in the dirt on a bike.

Just sayin'.....

Honestly, I think people who find stretching works for them should keep doing it despite what the science says unless they really are hurting themselves. I have just been fed up with people insisting that people who don't find any benefit from it are ignorant or whatever.

I think it's also hilarious that the guy thinks that stretching technology has somehow moved beyond our boomer ken.
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Old 06-01-21, 07:06 PM
  #66  
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Honestly, I too used to think stretching was a waste of time. Back when I was under 30.
Then I went a few years without getting much exercise as it was in storage in my mother's attic and when I tried to start using my bike again I found that I was extremely sore the next day every time I tried to ride it. Then I tried stretching and it seemed to solve that issue.
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Old 06-01-21, 07:54 PM
  #67  
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hey man, no reason to get ticked off. And about stretching LOL!!!

stretch all day long if you want, or never do it. It's the trying to convince others that your opinion is the right one that's laughable. People are different and different things work. This is not one size fits all

static stretching is all but gone in team sports in favor of dynamic stretching which is essentially moving to get warmed up

I'm certain that the troops about to storm the beaches of Normandy did not stretch before that historic life and death event

if this post describes you then I guess it's you I'm talking to
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Old 06-01-21, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider
hey man, no reason to get ticked off. And about stretching LOL!!!

stretch all day long if you want, or never do it. It's the trying to convince others that your opinion is the right one that's laughable. People are different and different things work. This is not one size fits all

static stretching is all but gone in team sports in favor of dynamic stretching which is essentially moving to get warmed up

I'm certain that the troops about to storm the beaches of Normandy did not stretch before that historic life and death event

if this post describes you then I guess it's you I'm talking to
Exactly! My position on this is really simple-- I don't stretch because it doesn't work for me. I have to assume that people who say they find it works for them aren't lying, but when they try to convince me I'm wrong, then I'll start in with the no scientific evidence thing.
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Old 06-02-21, 05:03 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider
hey man, no reason to get ticked off. And about stretching LOL!!!

stretch all day long if you want, or never do it. It's the trying to convince others that your opinion is the right one that's laughable. People are different and different things work. This is not one size fits all

static stretching is all but gone in team sports in favor of dynamic stretching which is essentially moving to get warmed up

I'm certain that the troops about to storm the beaches of Normandy did not stretch before that historic life and death event

if this post describes you then I guess it's you I'm talking to
BTW, I posted this link above, a study that showed no difference in performance between static stretchers, dynamic stretchers and non stretchers, but that dynamic stretchers believed it helped them: https://insights.ovid.com/pubmed?pmid=29300214

The placebo effect doesn't seem to enhance performance, but maybe it's good for morale?
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Old 06-02-21, 06:25 PM
  #70  
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I sometimes stretch my arms, shoulders, legs and butt a little because it feels so damn good. Morning, night, before ride, after ride. Whenever. Or not. I also spend a lot of time sitting at a desk.
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Old 06-02-21, 08:30 PM
  #71  
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O.P. Go see a doctor. At your age, cramping, out of breath, extremely low mileage is NOT normal for your age. Get checked out and start working on your overall health.
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Old 06-15-21, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by slickrcbd
Ah, so just trial and error. Also apparently it can change, as when I was younger I never needed to stretch and never saw the point of all those stretches at the start and usually end of gym class. It was only when I got older that I started having problems if I skipped the stretching. I just dread what will happen when I turn 60 if I had so much bad stuff when I turned 30.

I can say something else, a few years back I pulled a muscle lifting some heavy boxes at work during an upgrade when we in IT had to bring a ton (actually it was probably two tons) of computers, monitors, and equipment from a receiving area to the IT department and process it. The Orthopedist asked me if I'd stretched before doing what was essentially weight lifting. I said no, and he tsked at me and said I wasn't 18 anymore, and that I needed to stretch before lifting more than about 30-40lbs or I risk that happening. He also recommended stretching before moving a lot of boxes even if they only weigh 10-20lbs if I'm going to be moving a lot of them.
This was years AFTER I discovered I needed to stretch on the bike. '
Then years later I pulled a muscle again, this time I was working a part-time survival job at Sam's Club in the electronic department while looking for a permanent full-time job. I was asked by a customer to put two 40-packs of 500ml bottles from a nearby endcap on her cart for her. That's 44lbs of water plus the weight of 40 16.9oz bottles and packaging, somewhere between 45 and 50lbs. I picked up both at once and put them in the cart, and somehow pulled a muscle. I went to the same orthopedist who said "Didn't I tell you about the importance of stretching the last time this happened? Maybe you will learn this time." I did, and now I'm a bit paranoid about doing the few simple stretches the doctor went over with me before lifting anything heavy. So I guess stretching is now necessary for me, but it didn't used to be before I turned 30. I should mention that what the doctor told me to do before lifting heavy stuff and what my high school gym teacher made me do before using the free weights however is very different, with the gym teacher's taking far longer and being far more comprehensive, while the doctors' were just a few simple stretches.
This is sort of a complicated topic, I've spent years working to fix an injury I got trying to get in better shape, what I'm sayings comes from that.

There's a lot of things to the condition your muscular system is in - muscle tissue quality, muscle length (determined by the brain), opposing muscles activating and moving against each other correctly, nerves that go to the muscles being active and not restricted/pinched, etc. The muscular system is a whole machine.

For a few lucky people everything continues working great into old age and they never notice any benefits of warming up, movement, etc.
For the average person things are a little suboptimal to begin with and slowly degrade as you get older. Moving yourself through the range of motions helps keep your muscles in better shape but there's a lot of variables in how this goes.
For a few unlucky people something is pretty off to begin with and they're hit with the effects of muscle aging much sooner than others, or they get injured and something gets "stuck" and that starts them down the road to physical disfunction way sooner.

It's pretty average to hit 30 and find that you suddenly notice the benefits of stretching but it's a bit concerning you need to stretch as often as you describe just to ride 3-4 miles. There is reason to be concerned about what will happen to you at 60.

Unfortunately the state of fixing these things is not great....medicine seems to have given up on having doctors that specialize in muscles, there's actually a fair amount of good research on what goes wrong - but not a lot of good research on how to diagnose it and fix it. I think if they every came up with a machine that could read muscle activation in real time with no radiation we might suddenly see effective treatments by a doctors.

You'd probably see some benefit if you started foam rolling rather than just stretching. But for my issues I've only made real progress on them with metal muscle working tools and studying anatomy charts, and even then it's been "progress" not "fixed" and has the risk of causing more issues than it solves.

I know my issues have their root at something called "twisted hip" - muscles on one side of the hip get weak or inactive while muscles on the other side get stronger and shorter - over time it twists things around so much it was starting to affect things you wouldn't think it would like vision, being able to stand (I could walk forward fine but not stand in one place without massive discomfort), etc.

Last edited by PaulRivers; 06-15-21 at 04:13 PM.
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