Are Cat 1 racers considered pros?
#52
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Around here it is notoriously more difficult to get the 1 upgrade than any other. They made me provide a host of extra info on the races (to make sure they met distance and field size requirements) and since I had exactly 30 points they also asks for a coaches recommendation. Not sure if it is the same elsewhere though.
I wonder how many of those 1700 are really active?
I wonder how many of those 1700 are really active?
#53
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Additional info for you.
Youngest Cat 1- 17 years old (1)
18-23 years old- 190
24-29 364
30-34 300
35-39 425
40-44 297
45-49 149
50-54 39
55-59 13
60-64 3
Oldest Cat 1 - 78 years old (1)
Youngest Cat 1- 17 years old (1)
18-23 years old- 190
24-29 364
30-34 300
35-39 425
40-44 297
45-49 149
50-54 39
55-59 13
60-64 3
Oldest Cat 1 - 78 years old (1)
#54
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Are those numbers for active licenses? I mean, people who actually registered for a license in 2009?
#55
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#56
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So i'm confused here. seems like we have some cat 1's from earlier years who think current cat 1's aren't legit?
seems to me that regardless of where you are, it's extremely difficult to get the cat 1 upgrade.
whether the proportion has changed or not, i think it's folly to believe that current cat 1 upgrades are less legit because there isn't a forced ranking like the bygone days. Besides, during those bygone days, our currently fringe sport had an even shallower talent pool.
So all cat 1's regardless of era have rightfully earned their status.
And let's not forget, IMHO, given the sports hierarchy in America, the best (non-GC type) bike rider in U.S. history has probably never even contemplated racing bikes. Neither has the best soccer player ever kicked a ball.
seems to me that regardless of where you are, it's extremely difficult to get the cat 1 upgrade.
whether the proportion has changed or not, i think it's folly to believe that current cat 1 upgrades are less legit because there isn't a forced ranking like the bygone days. Besides, during those bygone days, our currently fringe sport had an even shallower talent pool.
So all cat 1's regardless of era have rightfully earned their status.
And let's not forget, IMHO, given the sports hierarchy in America, the best (non-GC type) bike rider in U.S. history has probably never even contemplated racing bikes. Neither has the best soccer player ever kicked a ball.
#57
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No joke.
#58
Banned.
I know this is an old thread, but I have an interesting take on this. Technically, I was a pro for nearly 5 years. However, when I raced BMX I came in 2nd and Third a lot. I rode with a Cat 1 racer and he dropped me like I was hot.
How could I have possibly been a pro, yet I made a living?
How could I have possibly been a pro, yet I made a living?
#59
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USA Pro is the new Cat 1. You pay money, you get pro (if you are good enough). Was Lance more than a Cat 2?
I'm rather harsh, but if the income from cycling is not the sole means of supporting yourself and family - you are not a pro, regardless of what the license says.
I'm rather harsh, but if the income from cycling is not the sole means of supporting yourself and family - you are not a pro, regardless of what the license says.
#60
Newbie
I'm a 1, but sadly the free socks and gels I get for being such a badass have yet to translate into mortgage payments. Cat 1 is not pro. Pro in the US is barely pro depending on your definition.
Most races around here are P/1/2/3. Generally not too many 3's race that category, but a few do. Occasionally just P/1/2, state championships, etc. We have (had, cancelled for 2020) a USA crit here, that one has a 1/2/3 race and a P/1 race with P/1 being the "real" one.
Most races around here are P/1/2/3. Generally not too many 3's race that category, but a few do. Occasionally just P/1/2, state championships, etc. We have (had, cancelled for 2020) a USA crit here, that one has a 1/2/3 race and a P/1 race with P/1 being the "real" one.
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I know this is an old thread, but I have an interesting take on this. Technically, I was a pro for nearly 5 years. However, when I raced BMX I came in 2nd and Third a lot. I rode with a Cat 1 racer and he dropped me like I was hot.
How could I have possibly been a pro, yet I made a living?
How could I have possibly been a pro, yet I made a living?
Likes For gsteinb:
#63
Blast from the Past
Man some good old names in this one. YMCA, ZeCanon, waterrockets...
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#64
Banned.
I made a decent living riding a bike.
I was a bike messenger in San Francisco for 5 years....this was during the 80's before email/Internet when businesses needed lightening fast deliveries for projects that were under time pressure.
3 or 4 died each year. Everyone wanted to be a messenger, but few made it. The workload was brutal if you wanted to make good money.
I started working for one of the big bike messenger companies making $50 a day. However, my reputation for speed eventually resulted in me making more than $170 a day, a lot of money at the time.
I was a mediocre BMX and road racer, but I had a unique set of skills that made me one of the fastest messengers in the city. The problem was most messenger companies wanted volume, medium speed for most deliveries and short distances. Also, you only got 40% of the delivery charge (called a tag) and had to pay fees back to the company.
We had a competition every year, and one of them was the fastest messenger to do a delivery from one end of San Francisco to the next. I won in 8 minutes and 43 seconds in heavy traffic. There was an article in the newspaper about it.
One night I was at a party. A guy who owned a typography company was complaining that he could not get his work out and back fast enough, even though he paid for the most expensive rush delivery (and from a company I had worked for, US Messenger). By the time he called it in it would take an hour or more. I asked what he was looking for. He said "I need it there in 30 minutes." I said "how about 9 minutes," and the next day gave him the article.
The following Monday I started working for him making that delivery nearly 20 times a day. The delivery company charged him $12:50 each time, and workers would get 40%. I got the whole tag.
I was a bike messenger in San Francisco for 5 years....this was during the 80's before email/Internet when businesses needed lightening fast deliveries for projects that were under time pressure.
3 or 4 died each year. Everyone wanted to be a messenger, but few made it. The workload was brutal if you wanted to make good money.
I started working for one of the big bike messenger companies making $50 a day. However, my reputation for speed eventually resulted in me making more than $170 a day, a lot of money at the time.
I was a mediocre BMX and road racer, but I had a unique set of skills that made me one of the fastest messengers in the city. The problem was most messenger companies wanted volume, medium speed for most deliveries and short distances. Also, you only got 40% of the delivery charge (called a tag) and had to pay fees back to the company.
We had a competition every year, and one of them was the fastest messenger to do a delivery from one end of San Francisco to the next. I won in 8 minutes and 43 seconds in heavy traffic. There was an article in the newspaper about it.
One night I was at a party. A guy who owned a typography company was complaining that he could not get his work out and back fast enough, even though he paid for the most expensive rush delivery (and from a company I had worked for, US Messenger). By the time he called it in it would take an hour or more. I asked what he was looking for. He said "I need it there in 30 minutes." I said "how about 9 minutes," and the next day gave him the article.
The following Monday I started working for him making that delivery nearly 20 times a day. The delivery company charged him $12:50 each time, and workers would get 40%. I got the whole tag.
#66
Banned.
There were more than a million people packed in a tiny place. Cars were bumper to bumper. You spent 8-10 hours a day with one car on your left and one on your right each not more than 2 inches from the ends of your handlebars, going as fast as you can. The pressure is constant and one mistake is too many. You could get doored at any time. And of course you worked in any and all elements. The hills of San Francisco are brutal, even NY City messengers can't hang. That is why SF messengers made more. Only about 15% of the messengers got the "rush" tags but those tags paid more than twice what normal tags paid. If you competed in a sport where the fastest made 4 times more than the slowest I would say it is professional.
Last edited by RadDog; 07-20-20 at 10:26 PM.
#68
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Rad Dog, I get your point that you made a living riding a bike. But Rubik is correct, you were not a professional bicycle racer, which is the context of this discussion.
Also, as I read your description, I just pictured Kevin Bacon from Quicksilver in my head.
Also, as I read your description, I just pictured Kevin Bacon from Quicksilver in my head.
#69
Banned.
But the truth is, probably none of you would have made it through one week on this job. You simply do not posses the requisite mind set and mentality. I knew many broke ass Cat one racers and pros who would have loved to make $80k a year riding their bike, but most did not survive. Road guys were not able to cope with the incessant traffic and pressure, they tended to lose their temper. They were invariably arrogant, just like some of the posters here. Arrogance does not blend well with the streets. Ironically, BMX guys usually did better.
The bottom line is, many, many people would love to make a living riding a bike, but just as in being a major player in the Tour or Giro, most washed out.
#70
Senior Member
Still lots of messengers here, still faster than driving and parking most places, but I think the personal electric vehicles could take over the delivery game. Still not enough bike lanes but there are more every year. Downtown is still bumper to bumper traffic (or was, before the 'rona). I thought just riding to work through that splitting lanes was fun for the first few months. Then I started to realize how ridiculously dangerous it is. The fixie messengers going full speed through red lights are suicidal.
#71
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I'm quite confident that everyone posting in here has a job already, and are likely pretty successful at said job.
In addition, everyone posting in here is likely to be a fairly accomplished bike racer, because this is the bike racing forum.
You, apparently, are not a bike racer. All you're doing is raving about a messenger gig you had two decades ago and trying to argue that you're some sort of "professional." It genuinely has nothing to do with anything.
#72
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Go enter a race next season and come back and complain about getting dropped. Then you'll be on to something relevant.
#73
Banned.
You seem extremely confused.
I'm quite confident that everyone posting in here has a job already, and are likely pretty successful at said job.
In addition, everyone posting in here is likely to be a fairly accomplished bike racer, because this is the bike racing forum.
You, apparently, are not a bike racer. All you're doing is raving about a messenger gig you had two decades ago and trying to argue that you're some sort of "professional." It genuinely has nothing to do with anything.
I'm quite confident that everyone posting in here has a job already, and are likely pretty successful at said job.
In addition, everyone posting in here is likely to be a fairly accomplished bike racer, because this is the bike racing forum.
You, apparently, are not a bike racer. All you're doing is raving about a messenger gig you had two decades ago and trying to argue that you're some sort of "professional." It genuinely has nothing to do with anything.
You see, this is exactly the type of arrogance that explains why road racers can't make it. Whereas I respect road guys, you don't respect me, even though I would smoke you every way to Sunday in an urban race. I am 58, but put me in any city anywhere and I would beat you in my sleep. Lets put some money on it. I am in Houston but can travel. I actually was a pretty decent BMX racer. The difference is that the BMX guys are not nearly as conceded as the road guy, and you keep making my point.
#74
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You see, this is exactly the type of arrogance that explains why road racers can't make it. Whereas I respect road guys, you don't respect me, even though I would smoke you every way to Sunday in an urban race. I am 58, but put me in any city anywhere and I would beat you in my sleep. Lets put some money on it. I am in Houston but can travel. I actually was a pretty decent BMX racer. The difference is that the BMX guys are not nearly as conceded as the road guy, and you keep making my point.
Like I said, go do a race next season. Get dropped, come complain about it, spend the next three to four years going back and forth between getting dropped and finally getting enough podiums to upgrade, etc.
You still won't be able to race against me, but at least you might be able do some cat 3 master's races or something. By then maybe you'll have some semblance of a clue as to how far out in right field you are with all of this nonsense you're posting.
#75
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Perhaps your penchant for waxing poetic about the good ole days would be more appropriate in a bike messenger forum?