1200k training
05-07-21, 04:48 PM
#26
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Most folks say do them at the cadence which produces the most power, which is usually quite high, but it's individual to some extent and also depends on gradient IME. Most randonneurs with whom I've ridden use quite a high cadence, 90-100, though that's certainly not universal. I never turned a high cadence. My understanding is that saves glycogen at the expense of, as you say, metabolic efficiency. Higher cadence = lower pedal pressure. That's certainly not universal.
I agree about hiking not being great prep for cycling, but I've found that it does work the other way, probably because sport riding imposes much greater momentary stresses on the legs than does hiking. Thus the advantage only works in one direction. Yes, of course muscle fiber recruitment is key. When folks start to do strength training for the first time, they make big gains in the first couple months, purely because of increased fiber recruitment. I think that's the idea of early sprint training. IME you need a lot more than 10 seconds. The idea to to be exhausted at the end of the sprint and losing power. What I do isn't really sprinting, it's really defined as max effort intervals, 30" to 1'. The idea again is to exhaust the legs during each effort, much like doing strength training to failure, which is also designed to increase fiber recruitment. That's also rather the point of doing those long FastPedal intervals, to exhaust the Type 2 fibers and then teach the Type 1 fibers to pedal properly. Admittedly just riding lots does the same thing, just not as quickly..
The usual coach's recommendation for max effort intervals is 5 minutes easy between them. I think that's about right, sort of rested but not completely cooled off. One does them until failure, which doesn't usually take too many repeats. These aren't paced efforts. It's max effort for as long as one can sustain it. I used to be able to hold it for 45" though I'm down to more like 30" now. I never could do it for a full minute. I peak at about 4 X FTP, though of course that's on a DF where I can really use my legs out of the saddle. It's not body weight OOS, because sometimes I'll pick up one of the wheels from the backstroke effort. I'm trying to rip the bars off the bike.
I agree about hiking not being great prep for cycling, but I've found that it does work the other way, probably because sport riding imposes much greater momentary stresses on the legs than does hiking. Thus the advantage only works in one direction. Yes, of course muscle fiber recruitment is key. When folks start to do strength training for the first time, they make big gains in the first couple months, purely because of increased fiber recruitment. I think that's the idea of early sprint training. IME you need a lot more than 10 seconds. The idea to to be exhausted at the end of the sprint and losing power. What I do isn't really sprinting, it's really defined as max effort intervals, 30" to 1'. The idea again is to exhaust the legs during each effort, much like doing strength training to failure, which is also designed to increase fiber recruitment. That's also rather the point of doing those long FastPedal intervals, to exhaust the Type 2 fibers and then teach the Type 1 fibers to pedal properly. Admittedly just riding lots does the same thing, just not as quickly..
The usual coach's recommendation for max effort intervals is 5 minutes easy between them. I think that's about right, sort of rested but not completely cooled off. One does them until failure, which doesn't usually take too many repeats. These aren't paced efforts. It's max effort for as long as one can sustain it. I used to be able to hold it for 45" though I'm down to more like 30" now. I never could do it for a full minute. I peak at about 4 X FTP, though of course that's on a DF where I can really use my legs out of the saddle. It's not body weight OOS, because sometimes I'll pick up one of the wheels from the backstroke effort. I'm trying to rip the bars off the bike.
Thanks.
Peak power is much lower on a very reclined bent due to a much more open hip position relative to an upright bike. The whole Power duration curve is different but it really doesn't matter, hard is hard. I did the sprints today. I had to take a little nap later in the afternoon, they were not exactly easy.
On a hiking forum where I read and sometimes post, there are several fairly serious cyclists (one racer, one lifelong commuter who rides 50 miles daily, and two who have crossed the country several times in quick time, and one who does centuries). Universally, they say that cycling does not translate into long distance backpacking. The one fellow did the Triple Crown (Appalachian Trail, Continental Divide, and Pacific Crest Trail) each in under 100 days. This is very fast. His normal day on the PCT was 30-35 miles. He claims he can transition right to cycling after a long backpacking trip but not the other direction. One fellow completed the Northern Route cycling across the USA and then immediately started a thru hike of the AT starting at Mt Katadin in Maine. He went thru several sorryful weeks getting thru the White Mountains before getting his hiking legs back. So, I do not know one way or the other.
When I used to race long time ago, my intervals were only two types. VO2max and sprints. VO2max were 5 minutes and if fit I could do 6 of them with not a lot of recovery between. I liked to do sprints up slight hills and would recover almost entirely before doing another. In Joe Friel's last two books about cycling for old people, he really stresses the importance of internals and anaerobic workouts to retain as we get older. I am probably going to do Tempo intervals 2 x 20 and increase the number of sets. I was doing these in the Spring of 2019 before PBP, I got to 8 x 20 and with warmup and cool down, it was about 3 hours and 60-65 miles. They did not kill me but it was a very good workout. I did them fairly often, they did not put a lot of fatigue into me but they did add a load......hard to explain. Ok. Thanks again
05-10-21, 08:32 AM
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I am in. I am one of the 50 riders on the list. Yikes. It is scary but exciting. I think this is the first time I ever felt concerned about finishing within the time limit, aside from a catastrophic breakdown or other event.
I have an appointment today with an Orthopedic to make sure the bone in my right ankle isn't fractured.
I have been doing sprints on the trainer every other day. I was doing them wrong. I was doing 20 seconds at 170% of FTP. The kind gentleman told me to do them as hard as I can and 10 seconds. Long rest. Do again. I need to do them more like 1000 watts or just simple as hard as possible. Even doing them wrong, my legs are feeling better on the bike. Go figure.
If ankle looks good, I am thinking of a 3 day 700-750m "tour" on flat roads in coming weeks, stay in motel. If I can't successfully do that, it will tell me my presumptions about already having a good base are incorrect. I'd do the PA 400k but them hills in PA are a ***** on a bent.
I have an appointment today with an Orthopedic to make sure the bone in my right ankle isn't fractured.
I have been doing sprints on the trainer every other day. I was doing them wrong. I was doing 20 seconds at 170% of FTP. The kind gentleman told me to do them as hard as I can and 10 seconds. Long rest. Do again. I need to do them more like 1000 watts or just simple as hard as possible. Even doing them wrong, my legs are feeling better on the bike. Go figure.
If ankle looks good, I am thinking of a 3 day 700-750m "tour" on flat roads in coming weeks, stay in motel. If I can't successfully do that, it will tell me my presumptions about already having a good base are incorrect. I'd do the PA 400k but them hills in PA are a ***** on a bent.
06-29-21, 03:51 PM
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Well, the ankle took a lot longer to heal than anticipated. Ortho Doc cleared me just this Saturday. It feels good and solid. I did do a hard and hilly 300k. I did the sprints like the kind coach told me to do.
Whether I should attempt a 1200km at this juncture is unknown territory and am on the fence. I'd guess it is a 50/50 proposition in terms of success/failure. I just love those roads in Colorado. Tough decision.
Whether I should attempt a 1200km at this juncture is unknown territory and am on the fence. I'd guess it is a 50/50 proposition in terms of success/failure. I just love those roads in Colorado. Tough decision.
