The Ugly American Goes to France: It's all about Lance.
07-28-10, 03:05 PM
#76
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Rousseau,
Do you see how absolutely nobody responded to what I wrote? In essence, or without being so bold, I was basically saying what you are saying. Its more common place with the rich, and with it, comes a level of bragging, and expected entitlement over other diseases killing just as many people and just as unfairly. ('i know more people that have died of cancer than you' type of remarks)
Just because its brown people dieing they don't count.... dont forget that rousseau.
Lance stopped the race, because he is entitled to do so as a cancer survivor. Anyone else, with any other cause, merited or not, does not get that privilege or entitlement.
The fact that LA has made millions and is laughing all the way to the bank with wool pulled over peoples eyes is something you should forget about. The point is that he survived cancer and has a story, and he can make millions off people clinging onto hope because of his story, then well, thats the magic opportunity of capitalism, and unless your a commie, i guess you cant hate on him taking advantage of other people's misfortunes. Like John Stewart says, "even cancer should turn a profit." Lance is raising cancer awareness, because non of us have ever heard of cancer, or dont have doctors at in the world at least who would be able to tell us about it. He has raised money for cancer research, because money we spent sending a rocket to Pluto is far more important, and its up to LA to pick up the slack. Money we spend on war is also more important, and we cant question that either, because who wants to raise awareness on war, after all, nobody's lives are taken unfairly in wars, we all know that. Bombs we drop that kill innocent children walking to school you would think is the type of awareness we need to raise to people so we can stop it, but of course, they are neither rich, nor have entitlement, so who cares.
At the end of it all rousseau, and above all, how dare you even mention that truth. Nobody's life taken unjustly matters except for cancer victims. If Lance chooses to stop the race, while Im sure other cyclists would love to have stopped it too for other causes, lets keep the things in check please.
Like I said before, last time I checked, a life is a life, so lets have some decency.
Do you see how absolutely nobody responded to what I wrote? In essence, or without being so bold, I was basically saying what you are saying. Its more common place with the rich, and with it, comes a level of bragging, and expected entitlement over other diseases killing just as many people and just as unfairly. ('i know more people that have died of cancer than you' type of remarks)
Just because its brown people dieing they don't count.... dont forget that rousseau.
Lance stopped the race, because he is entitled to do so as a cancer survivor. Anyone else, with any other cause, merited or not, does not get that privilege or entitlement.
The fact that LA has made millions and is laughing all the way to the bank with wool pulled over peoples eyes is something you should forget about. The point is that he survived cancer and has a story, and he can make millions off people clinging onto hope because of his story, then well, thats the magic opportunity of capitalism, and unless your a commie, i guess you cant hate on him taking advantage of other people's misfortunes. Like John Stewart says, "even cancer should turn a profit." Lance is raising cancer awareness, because non of us have ever heard of cancer, or dont have doctors at in the world at least who would be able to tell us about it. He has raised money for cancer research, because money we spent sending a rocket to Pluto is far more important, and its up to LA to pick up the slack. Money we spend on war is also more important, and we cant question that either, because who wants to raise awareness on war, after all, nobody's lives are taken unfairly in wars, we all know that. Bombs we drop that kill innocent children walking to school you would think is the type of awareness we need to raise to people so we can stop it, but of course, they are neither rich, nor have entitlement, so who cares.
At the end of it all rousseau, and above all, how dare you even mention that truth. Nobody's life taken unjustly matters except for cancer victims. If Lance chooses to stop the race, while Im sure other cyclists would love to have stopped it too for other causes, lets keep the things in check please.
Like I said before, last time I checked, a life is a life, so lets have some decency.
07-28-10, 04:58 PM
#77
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So is this the fault of Lance Armstrong? Or is it he fault of the rest of humanity that will flock like sheepish lemmings towards the shining aura of a celebrity? Having a celebrity associated with something related to the gathering of money works whether it is a charity, political campaign, or selling merchandise.
To answer your albeit silly question, YES, it is Lance's fault for stopping the race and causing a scene, and acting out of place. Do you think it was a disrespectful gorilla in a Lance Armstrong suite that did it?
Perhaps you didnt read the thread, or the OPs comments. The discussion here, for lack of your comprehension, is that it was inappropriate for him to do what he did at that time. Nobody is debating anything else.
He can promote his profiteering act, disguised in the whole cancer story all he wants, but you dont stop a race and cause a scene for your personal profiteering product placement. Yes there is a lot of promotion that goes on with the Tour, but first and formost, and above all, its a race, a race that has rules and regulations.
Tell me sir, are you STATING that as a cancer survivor, he is above the law, or above rules and regulations? Your silly question essentially states that.
07-28-10, 07:53 PM
#78
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Wow! I am amazed at the amount of hate and darkness you feel for this man. He's just a guy on a bike, dude. Why not just close out the computer and move on to something else that makes you happy? You sound like a sad individual. How funny is it that as you are posting all your gripes on these pages about this terrible man, his face is plastered on all the ads surrounding the posts???? I'd move on and feel good about yourself if your dream of doping is proven true. I'm guessing it won't be. Time will tell. Until then, GO LANCE!!
07-29-10, 06:09 AM
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I'll telll YOU what. When you hold not just one loved one's but three loved one's heads when they die of cancer -- and when you've held the hands of a few dozen people who are going through the same thing until you see their lives leave their bodies, you can criticize me. I've been there. Until then, you need to get a clue.
There is a time and place for everything. This wasn't the time or the place.
There is a time and place for everything. This wasn't the time or the place.
07-29-10, 08:15 AM
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He is not above the cycling law because he had cancer, he is above it because he is a superstar of the sport. Love him or hate him he is huge in cycling. He gets away with things because he is a superstar. It is not because of cancer or because it is cycling. Look at all US sports, superstars get calls all the time. Kobe and Lebron are better then most but touching them with the same amount of force they just touched you equals a foul when it was perfectly fine the other way around. At least at the end of the day UCI is "doing something" about it. The NBA just wants you to buy another ticket.
07-29-10, 08:23 AM
#81
Senior Member
Wow, this is amazing. How someone could fail so badly at comprehending this whole discussion.
To answer your albeit silly question, YES, it is Lance's fault for stopping the race and causing a scene, and acting out of place. Do you think it was a disrespectful gorilla in a Lance Armstrong suite that did it?
Perhaps you didnt read the thread, or the OPs comments. The discussion here, for lack of your comprehension, is that it was inappropriate for him to do what he did at that time. Nobody is debating anything else.
He can promote his profiteering act, disguised in the whole cancer story all he wants, but you dont stop a race and cause a scene for your personal profiteering product placement. Yes there is a lot of promotion that goes on with the Tour, but first and formost, and above all, its a race, a race that has rules and regulations.
Tell me sir, are you STATING that as a cancer survivor, he is above the law, or above rules and regulations? Your silly question essentially states that.
To answer your albeit silly question, YES, it is Lance's fault for stopping the race and causing a scene, and acting out of place. Do you think it was a disrespectful gorilla in a Lance Armstrong suite that did it?
Perhaps you didnt read the thread, or the OPs comments. The discussion here, for lack of your comprehension, is that it was inappropriate for him to do what he did at that time. Nobody is debating anything else.
He can promote his profiteering act, disguised in the whole cancer story all he wants, but you dont stop a race and cause a scene for your personal profiteering product placement. Yes there is a lot of promotion that goes on with the Tour, but first and formost, and above all, its a race, a race that has rules and regulations.
Tell me sir, are you STATING that as a cancer survivor, he is above the law, or above rules and regulations? Your silly question essentially states that.
The fact that LA has made millions and is laughing all the way to the bank with wool pulled over peoples eyes is something you should forget about. The point is that he survived cancer and has a story, and he can make millions off people clinging onto hope because of his story, then well, thats the magic opportunity of capitalism, and unless your a commie, i guess you cant hate on him taking advantage of other people's misfortunes. Like John Stewart says, "even cancer should turn a profit." Lance is raising cancer awareness, because non of us have ever heard of cancer, or dont have doctors at in the world at least who would be able to tell us about it. He has raised money for cancer research, because money we spent sending a rocket to Pluto is far more important, and its up to LA to pick up the slack. Money we spend on war is also more important, and we cant question that either, because who wants to raise awareness on war, after all, nobody's lives are taken unfairly in wars, we all know that. Bombs we drop that kill innocent children walking to school you would think is the type of awareness we need to raise to people so we can stop it, but of course, they are neither rich, nor have entitlement, so who cares.
And no, I do not think that Lance is above the law or rules for any reason and I never implied that. I posted questions, not answers. You seem to think that this is all Lance's fault and I have no problem with your point of view. But, to try and begin answering my questions, I don't think it is quite so clear-cut. I think we live in a world where celebrities are allowed to do things like Lance's jersey switch. Other than this thread and other discussions like it, there has been no down-side to Lance for his actions (and calling this thread a downside for Lance is really stretching it).
07-29-10, 07:55 PM
#82
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Exactly, with all his current bad publicity he is trying to use his cancer message to divert bad image to others and get positive image for himself. He's trying to make it look more like he is the good guy and others are the bad guys.
07-29-10, 08:31 PM
#83
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He is not above the cycling law because he had cancer, he is above it because he is a superstar of the sport. Love him or hate him he is huge in cycling. He gets away with things because he is a superstar. It is not because of cancer or because it is cycling. Look at all US sports, superstars get calls all the time. Kobe and Lebron are better then most but touching them with the same amount of force they just touched you equals a foul when it was perfectly fine the other way around. At least at the end of the day UCI is "doing something" about it. The NBA just wants you to buy another ticket.
07-30-10, 12:00 AM
#84
Plz refer to rule #5
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Lance is an ass.
Okay, I said it. What kind of jerkwad holds up the entire Tour de France and/or risks disqualification of the team in order to promote a cause (ANY cause)? What cause will hold up the Tour next year when Lance isn't there?
This has been a sad couple of years for me. Back during Lance's prime, I was a huge fan. I drank the KoolAid. These last two years have seen repeated excesses and exercises in self-worship for LA. I'm sour on the guy. The ugly American goes to France.
Okay, I said it. What kind of jerkwad holds up the entire Tour de France and/or risks disqualification of the team in order to promote a cause (ANY cause)? What cause will hold up the Tour next year when Lance isn't there?
This has been a sad couple of years for me. Back during Lance's prime, I was a huge fan. I drank the KoolAid. These last two years have seen repeated excesses and exercises in self-worship for LA. I'm sour on the guy. The ugly American goes to France.
07-30-10, 02:11 AM
#85
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I thought the Lance hate would cool with you but you're all festered and can't seem to pop. There's a special link that takes care of that and it has been activated. So, if I look like I'm ignoring you and a certain other hater-zit...I am. Good day sir.
07-30-10, 05:34 AM
#86
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I agree with the others. Lance IS and always has been a total d-bag. Arrogant prick also had the team make the race numbers yellow for all the other Tour stages. He should've sanctioned for that too as it violated the rules and they know it.
07-30-10, 05:38 AM
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Wait, what? Their stage numbers were only yellow when they were leading the team GC. I can specifically recall stages when they werent winning that their numbers were normal.
Or are you being sarcastic?
Or are you being sarcastic?
07-30-10, 10:38 AM
#88
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Dude! I was totally being sarcastic. I guess sarcasm doesn't translate well to the internet. I need to be more liberal. I stand by my earlier comment about Armstrong being an arrogant prick.
07-30-10, 05:20 PM
#89
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Let me put it simply my fellow forum debaters.
Lets say I was the local forum guru around here, the "Pacard" of bike forums (he is the celeb around here right?). Lets say that whenever I swooped into a thread all i got was sheeping yeses and praises.
Now, lets say I came in here and just preached an agenda, albeit a noble cause, it would be a subject matter against forum rules, for example politics, or health care system, or any of the usual no-no subject matters, but those that were for the good and benefit of millions.
A moderator would kindly ask me to remove my posts and inform me of my breach in rules and regulations. Now, Im sure its free speech and all of that nonsense, but the forum rules are the forum rules, and I participate under the conditions I follow these rules. This would be different than if I humbly apologized, and quickly and quietly rectified my deviance, in a mannarable, sincere, and gracious way, knowing by then at least I had made my cause known. Lance did not do this. He bascially snubbed the rule makers and structure of the event, and evryone invloved.
Im not sure why this is a hard concept for some people to understand.
Lance, and every cyclist in the Tour, participated under conditions they follow every rules and regulation. Him breaching the rule is forgivable, just like any rule governing anything. However, if I carry on with arrogance, disrespect, diregard and open, willing devience, then the rule makers are left with no choice, and I would have been a complete, and utter baboon that has no manners.
This is simply the OPs point.
Lets say I was the local forum guru around here, the "Pacard" of bike forums (he is the celeb around here right?). Lets say that whenever I swooped into a thread all i got was sheeping yeses and praises.
Now, lets say I came in here and just preached an agenda, albeit a noble cause, it would be a subject matter against forum rules, for example politics, or health care system, or any of the usual no-no subject matters, but those that were for the good and benefit of millions.
A moderator would kindly ask me to remove my posts and inform me of my breach in rules and regulations. Now, Im sure its free speech and all of that nonsense, but the forum rules are the forum rules, and I participate under the conditions I follow these rules. This would be different than if I humbly apologized, and quickly and quietly rectified my deviance, in a mannarable, sincere, and gracious way, knowing by then at least I had made my cause known. Lance did not do this. He bascially snubbed the rule makers and structure of the event, and evryone invloved.
Im not sure why this is a hard concept for some people to understand.
Lance, and every cyclist in the Tour, participated under conditions they follow every rules and regulation. Him breaching the rule is forgivable, just like any rule governing anything. However, if I carry on with arrogance, disrespect, diregard and open, willing devience, then the rule makers are left with no choice, and I would have been a complete, and utter baboon that has no manners.
This is simply the OPs point.
Last edited by Howzit; 07-30-10 at 05:30 PM.
07-31-10, 12:26 AM
#90
Senior Member
Let me put it simply my fellow forum debaters.
Lets say I was the local forum guru around here, the "Pacard" of bike forums (he is the celeb around here right?). Lets say that whenever I swooped into a thread all i got was sheeping yeses and praises.
Now, lets say I came in here and just preached an agenda, albeit a noble cause, it would be a subject matter against forum rules, for example politics, or health care system, or any of the usual no-no subject matters, but those that were for the good and benefit of millions.
A moderator would kindly ask me to remove my posts and inform me of my breach in rules and regulations.
Lets say I was the local forum guru around here, the "Pacard" of bike forums (he is the celeb around here right?). Lets say that whenever I swooped into a thread all i got was sheeping yeses and praises.
Now, lets say I came in here and just preached an agenda, albeit a noble cause, it would be a subject matter against forum rules, for example politics, or health care system, or any of the usual no-no subject matters, but those that were for the good and benefit of millions.
A moderator would kindly ask me to remove my posts and inform me of my breach in rules and regulations.
A more accurate comparison would be if a "forum celeb" came here, posted just like anybody else with relevant replies to existing topics, but included a few pics/banners related to his cause in his avatar and signature. No big deal unless someone else starts a new thread with the purpose of pointing out those pics/banners.
Team Radioshack wore those jerseys for their fans only. Swapping jerseys only took a few minutes and nobody else in the peleton cared about the exceedingly minor holdup.
08-01-10, 02:33 AM
#91
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What a failure of an explanation. You really aren't any good at this at all.
A more accurate comparison would be if a "forum celeb" came here, posted just like anybody else with relevant replies to existing topics, but included a few pics/banners related to his cause in his avatar and signature. No big deal unless someone else starts a new thread with the purpose of pointing out those pics/banners.
Team Radioshack wore those jerseys for their fans only. Swapping jerseys only took a few minutes and nobody else in the peleton cared about the exceedingly minor holdup.
A more accurate comparison would be if a "forum celeb" came here, posted just like anybody else with relevant replies to existing topics, but included a few pics/banners related to his cause in his avatar and signature. No big deal unless someone else starts a new thread with the purpose of pointing out those pics/banners.
Team Radioshack wore those jerseys for their fans only. Swapping jerseys only took a few minutes and nobody else in the peleton cared about the exceedingly minor holdup.
08-02-10, 07:53 AM
#92
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Never as big an ass as Contador and his revolver or Landis the flip flopping finger pointer taking everyones money. OK, maybe not bringing it to the tour but c'mon he has raised over 200M for a great cause while riding 2 wheels. He deserves everything up to his last tour ride. I Hope Schleck keeps his chain on next year or he would have been wearing yellow! You know who is the coolest on tour Fabian Cancellara his Paris-Roubaix was unbelievable!
08-02-10, 11:46 AM
#93
Senior Member
You're convinced that you either have to be a hater or a fanboi. "In between" means nothing to you.
Last edited by USAZorro; 08-02-10 at 11:59 AM. Reason: removed insult
08-02-10, 12:04 PM
#94
insert witty comment here
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threads like this are funny, but not for the intended purpose. I'm surprised people engage in the "debate":
Lance is a no good ____
I know you are so what is Lance?
You LOVE Lance and want to have his two headed love child
Do not!
Do so!
Or worse, the thread pretends to offer some sort of insightful commentary using LA (or AC or ___) as a prop.
Me? I'm just mocking the thread :-)
Lance is a no good ____
I know you are so what is Lance?
You LOVE Lance and want to have his two headed love child
Do not!
Do so!
Or worse, the thread pretends to offer some sort of insightful commentary using LA (or AC or ___) as a prop.
Me? I'm just mocking the thread :-)
08-02-10, 12:17 PM
#95
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...A more accurate comparison would be if a "forum celeb" came here, posted just like anybody else with relevant replies to existing topics, but included a few pics/banners related to his cause in his avatar and signature. No big deal unless someone else starts a new thread with the purpose of pointing out those pics/banners. ...
Lance and Radio Shack do not have the excuse of "we didn't understand the rules". They absolutely knew what the rules were, and made a conscious decision to break them. I'll grant you that most of the riders may not have minded, and some probably even thought it was kind of funny, but it certainly put UCI and the Tour Organizers in an awkward spot. What was "not cool" about this to me was that TRS knew they were putting others in this awkward sport (ensuring the race administration would have to take some action to ensure TRS complied with the rules), and chose to do it anyway. Obviously, it can be argued that the ends justified the means, but let's not pretend that this wasn't a premeditated act, calculated to maximize the splash in the media. Lance and Johann are brutally astute, and perhaps the only way this could have become a bigger deal were if TRS were somehow booted from the race, or were penalized and lost their team victory.
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08-05-10, 06:23 PM
#96
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Rules? What rules? When Armstrong was busted for a steroid, yes Corticosteroid, in 1999... He produced a backdated TUE (Therapeutic Rules Exemption). This was AFTER he was busted, not before. The rules state that a rider must apply for an exemption and have that exemption approved before competition.
Rules? How about the 1 hour episode while making a official wait for a blood test. Armstrong has already been accused of manipulating his hematocrit values so that he doesn't test positive. Again, rules? For who Armstrong. What a joke.
Rules? The man makes a living off of the cancer community. Nothing honorable about that. Then, he goes off to threaten and sue all those that fight him. No more. There are way too many witnesses out that are speaking up against him. Omerta, my azz. Lance rules. No more.
Rules? How about the 1 hour episode while making a official wait for a blood test. Armstrong has already been accused of manipulating his hematocrit values so that he doesn't test positive. Again, rules? For who Armstrong. What a joke.
Rules? The man makes a living off of the cancer community. Nothing honorable about that. Then, he goes off to threaten and sue all those that fight him. No more. There are way too many witnesses out that are speaking up against him. Omerta, my azz. Lance rules. No more.
08-06-10, 10:50 AM
#97
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Glad I didn't waste a lot of time reading this nonsense. Haters vs. idolizers. Who cares? Stupid post. It should be obvious that wearing a different jersey was not done to postpone the race. That was the decision of the organizers. Cipollini did it 4-5 times and got away with it. What's the big deal? Was he the ugly Italian? I think not. Only one general answer------get a life!!!!
08-09-10, 08:31 AM
#98
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I wonder what the folks defending LA would say if another team stopped the race to put on red jersey's to bring attention to animal rights and PETA. And suppose every single team wanted to do the same for their pet cause?
The Saxo banks boys have pulled over to change jerseys..Looks like their jerseys promote Scientology, a non-profit group dedicated to world domination and good will...What's this? Andy Schleck is visibly upset as Alberto Contador did not wait for Andy to finish changing his jersey and passed right by him to assume the lead. Oh my goodness, Alberto now leads by 8 seconds!
I mean at some point we should stop believing our pet causes trump all other rituals, rules and traditions. No doubt the Lance foundation does important work, but this was over the top. It's not like LA and his cause have to resort to gimmicks to get air time.
The Saxo banks boys have pulled over to change jerseys..Looks like their jerseys promote Scientology, a non-profit group dedicated to world domination and good will...What's this? Andy Schleck is visibly upset as Alberto Contador did not wait for Andy to finish changing his jersey and passed right by him to assume the lead. Oh my goodness, Alberto now leads by 8 seconds!
I mean at some point we should stop believing our pet causes trump all other rituals, rules and traditions. No doubt the Lance foundation does important work, but this was over the top. It's not like LA and his cause have to resort to gimmicks to get air time.
08-19-10, 04:40 PM
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The Saxo banks boys have pulled over to change jerseys..Looks like their jerseys promote Scientology, a non-profit group dedicated to world domination and good will...What's this? Andy Schleck is visibly upset as Alberto Contador did not wait for Andy to finish changing his jersey and passed right by him to assume the lead. Oh my goodness, Alberto now leads by 8 seconds!
08-20-10, 04:32 AM
#100
Pointy Helmet Tribe
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That. If you make an exception for 1 thing, you have to make exceptions for everything. Or get into a position of deciding which causes are worthy and which are not. Why is this so hard for people to understand?