ryancfp

Hi, your husband height and weight would also affect the riding comfort and touring needs on these bike. I would think Changebike would offer more flexibility with it larger wheels. And in terms of servicing, your local bike shops will be more accommodating since it is using normal road bike components. Brompton/ Birdy’s servicing will be more expensive down the road since it is a premium/unique brand.

Jipe

Brompton, Tyrell Ive and Birdy all roll on small easy wheels when folded and all fit folded into a supermarket caddy.

The Tyrell Ive Sport is a nice folding bike, very well manufactured but as far as I know, only sold in Europe by Boxbike in Berlin there is no Tyrell dealer network in Europe.

Winfried

… which is another good reason to get a bike that's sold in a store here so it's easy to return.

For taller folks, a Brompton can be fit with a longer stem (H), and a longer seatpost and even an extension, Incidently, current Brompton CEO "Will Butler-Adams says his height of 6ft 4in is not a problem when using the small, folding bike".

Since you live in the city in an appartment, and considering the price of those bikes, leaving it locked in the street is not a good idea… which means the bike has to be fast and easy to fold, and possibly take little space at home.

There's another folder that's missing from the list above: The Montague. It's US-made, isn't available in stores here but is sold from a French site. For touring, I would get the Navigator.

BTW, the région Île-de-France extended the subsidy to folders, up to €500 (max 50% of the bike; The city of Paris only subsidises cargo-bikes and/or pedelecs.) So for instance, a six-speed Brompton that retails for €1,500 would only cost you €1,000. More infos here.

oblada

Thanks all for the responses thus far! I've finally realized that I need to group all my responses together, otherwise I'll never get anywhere with the 5-post daily limit

Thanks for the suggestion! I've been avoiding Dahon because I find the sheer number of options overwhelming. I'll try to see if a retailer here has the Speed, though - I think they're a bit hard to find.

I've seen that one in a few online shops! I tried to look into it but there aren't many third-party reviews online, even in French. It looks a bit like a Tyrell Ive, but with a more awkward "fold" that involves taking off the front wheel?



Right, I was also wondering if you'd encountered any inconvenience with your Birdy that caused you to prefer the Brompton in the end, or if it was just an issue of saving time with the fold and being able to store it more compactly?

Thanks a lot for your input! I was hoping you'd reply, since your comprehensive post about the Change Bike was so helpful. Good to know that rolling the Change is fairly manageable over short distances. I agree that pushing the bike in stores, plus potentially juggling a shopping basket in the other hand, doesn't sound too practical (especially since shopping carts aren't common here).

In terms of traveling with the bike, I saw that you had built a custom box for yours that you were able to check as odd-shaped luggage. I'm guessing there's no readily available travel case for the bike, then?

I'm also mulling over the Tyrell IVE - any chance you could compare it to the Brompton/Birdy?

Good point. I am hoping that since there is one store selling the Birdy here in Paris, and several that carry the Brompton, servicing would be possible through them... But I definitely have no clue how expensive that would be!

Thanks, I did see that one color of the Ive was available on Boxbike's site! I think I read somewhere that it's purely a road bike? I'm still considering it, although it's not as easy to get my hands on compared to the Birdy and Brompton.

Wow, I hadn't even considered that I could get a subsidy!! Merci pour ces informations précieuses ) Now if only I could get 500€ + 500€ off for a bike that's both folding and electric.....

I've never owned a bike in Paris; do you think it would be unsafe to leave one of these bikes locked outside a store for, say, 15 minutes? They would of course be stored in our apartment when not in use. If so, I suppose the full-size options that aren't easy to take into stores might have to be ruled out.

Jipe

It will be very difficult to test the Tyrell Ive as Boxbike is the only one I know selling it in Europe. The Tyrell Ive accept wide tires like the Big Apple 50x355 and the Black Jack MTB tire 47x355. Its the other folding Tyrell that are pure road bikes (and limited to 85kg max load).

For servicing the Birdy, its very easy because first the Birdy has few specific/proprietary parts (less than the Brompton) and second because Riese & Muller has a big network of dealers in Europe. Many do not have the Birdy in stock but all can service it and order spare parts (beside the Birdy, Riese & Müller is a specialist of high end eBike and eCargo Bike).

About leaving a Brompton on the street even locked with the strongest U lock: you should absolutely avoid that! The Brompton is probably the best bike to steal because there is a huge demand of used Brompton and the used price is pretty high, no bike is as easy to resell used as a Brompton. There were Brompton stolen everywhere: on the street of course but also in train, bus, garage, basement of apartment buildings, open office, restaurant, cafe... it is so small folded that its very easy to steal and hide somewhere.

Winfried

If you do need to do a full fold, removing the front wheel isn't really difficult. The tip is to pull the wheel off the frame from its hub, so you don't get your hands dirty, and clip it on the frame where there's a thingie to hold it.

A bit big, even more unusual wheel size (355 vs. Brompton's 349), and only one shop in France that carries the brand (= I wouldn't want to have a problem while travelling.) Besides, I got it second hand, and the Sport stem was too far in the front (The Comfort would have been a better option.)

Depends on the location, on the bike (pro thieves know the Brompton and how much it goes for), and how long it'll stay locked. North/east of the city is not a location to leave a pricey bike outside.

Like I said before, I don't think it's a good idea to buy a bike that isn't available in a local store: Having to send it back to Berlin or Southampton because there's a problem that can't be solved here is a PITA. Besides, the Tyrell is probably too small for hubbie.

Jipe

Indeed, ETRTO355 is a little bit more unusual than ETRTO349 but only because there are many Brompton dealers because both are difficult to find. Note that the Tyrell Ive also use ETRTO355 wheels.

Actually, the Birdy 3 disc accepts without any problem ETRTO349, ETRTO355 and ETRTO406 (max tire width 32mm) wheels.

There is maybe only one dealer having the Birdy in stock in France (not sure about that) but as said there are many Riese & Müller dealers in France and even Paris that are able to service the Birdy and order spare parts from Riese & Müller. And also, there are few specific services to do on a Birdy, unlike for the Brompton, all the transmission (Shimano or Rohloff), all the braking (Shimano) are standard, any bike shop can service it. Its less a problem than for the Brompton on which many things are proprietary and if you live (or ride) in an area without Brompton dealer, you will have difficulties to find spare parts or service/repair it ( a simple example: if on a travel you loose a wheel fastening nut of a 3s or 6s Brompton, you will not be able to find a replacement one elsewhere than in a Brompton shop or online Brompton shop)

Winfried

Austria-made Vello mentioned above is also worth a try (1.500€ with a derailleur, 2.000€ with an Alfine 11 gear hub; Can use a Brompton bag), available from L'Hirondelle and Jour de Velo.

Falconista

There are 48 Brompton dealers listed across Paris, so it should be feasible to find spare parts if required. In the countryside I suppose the coverage thins out a bit.

Winfried

Yes, that was my point. Outside big cities, forget about finding parts even just a new 349 tire, but at least Brompton dealers can be found in metropolises, which certainly isn't true of Riese und Müller — Other brands use more familiar parts, so it's much less of an issue.

Jipe

I count 22 Riese & Müller dealers in great Paris (75, 78, 92, 94).

Anyway, I own several bikes of brands with few dealers (Moulton, Hase, Passoni) It has never been a problem since as the Birdy, most parts are standard bicycle components and because I anyway buy spare parts (including tires) online.

Its more a problem on the Brompton that has many proprietary parts and for which there are indeed many dealers in big cities but almost none elsewhere because folding bikes are used almost only in big cities.

2_i 

When we bought our first Brompton, there was only a handful of Brompton dealers active in the U.S., I think 3, each half a continent away from us. It was not a problem.

pinholecam

There is no bike box for the Change Bike, but a soft bag is given, the bag does not close up with the bike inside (more like an open bag for shouldering or for cover up purposes for train travel in some countries) .
The box isn't that hard to do up, just dismantle 2 normal bike boxes (free from a bike shop) and make one, tying the pieces together with garden wire (or twisty electrical wire ) .
To me the carboard box is "Taiji" (firm yet compliant, as opposed to a pure hard case dedicated bike box which I have seen broken at corners, hinges, etc ) ; not to mention storage space.


I have had the Tyrell IVE (review also here on this forum) and I have ridden both the Birdy and Brompton.
Personally, I prefer the IVE.
Vs Birdy, it is easier to fold and slightly less wide after folding. The Birdy ride also gave me mixed feelings. If the elastomer was soft, it robbed climbing and acceleration power, and if it was a hard elastomer, the bike felt really harsh; The IVE felt like a better sweet spot for my preference in riding. (ie. touring and also Sunday rides vs road bikes )

Vs Brompton; Did not like the gearing (6sp); clunky shifting and too wide a gearing spread. I only had 1 gear that I could cruise on. Fold was nice (best of the lot ). Not my cup of tea as I'm used to the smaller gearing changes of 9-11sp derailleur systems.

Winfried

Yes, and how many sell and maintain Birdies?

Jipe

Few have Birdy for test ride.

But all can order it and sell it and all can maintain it and order spare parts if needed from Riese & Muller.

Spare is more a problem for the Tyrell Ive for which there is only an importer/shop in Europe in Berlin (excepted for tires.inner tube that can be ordered online from many webstore and are the same as for the Birdy).

What elastomer are you talking? Rear or front ?

The main difference between Birdy and all others is that it has a very well working front suspension.

For the folded width, its actually the main drawback of the folding system of the Tyrell Ive that place its folded wheel far from the main frame (Tyrell Ive geometry and folding)

un.passant

How many do you need ?
I bought my Birdy at Les vélos parisiens and am very happy about it. I was convinced to choose a Birdy by reading their advice.
Service is great as far as I know (did not have enough problems with my Birdy to have much to do with them, but when I came back a month later with Shimano PD-EH500 pedals I had bought elsewhere, they refused to charge me anything to replace the original pedals with those).

Winfried

If you travel (a parameter mentioned by the OP), it can be an issue if you can't even get a tire or a an inner tube.

That is all.

Jipe

Its the same for all small wheel sizes !

Finding a ETRTO406 tire in stock in a bike shop is also pretty difficult.

The only solution when traveling with unusual tire sizes is to carry spare inner tubes and a spare folding tire!

For the Brompton, when travelling, you should also take a gear indicator chain and some nuts for the BWR or BSR hub.

oblada

Thanks everyone for all the helpful advice!! I decided to be more pragmatic and narrowed down the options to the bikes I could actually see and order in person. I ended up going to Les vélos parisiens -- thanks, Winfried and un.passant -- to test-ride the Brompton and Birdy. (Well, actually, I brought a more bike-savvy friend along to test them for me.) I went with the Birdy in the end, as it was apparently far more comfortable to ride, and because the fold, while not as elegant as the Brompton's, was still reasonably neat and simple. Hubby was pretty pleased

I wanted to post photos but still haven't hit the 10-post threshold! Anyway, thanks again

Jipe

Congratulation !

If you didn't yet, I advise to add the folding expedition rear rack.

Its very nice both to carry rear pannier and to park the bike with the rear wheel folded like done with the Brompton.

if you put easy wheels on it (any model for Brompton with 6mm bolt fits), it also allow to pull the folded Birdy rolling on its easy wheels.

oblada

Hmm, I got the rear luggage rack option, I'm not sure if it's the same as the folding expedition rear rack you mentioned? It does have the small wheels that you can pull the bike on.

oblada

Let me see if I can post images now...






(He even made it up some pretty steep hills without too much difficulty! )

Jipe

Yes, that's the Expedition rear rack.

FYI., if you want to put rear pannier and place them very much at the rear to avoid to touch them with your heels when pedaling, you need to swap the original easy wheels for thinner ones.