Tony P.

I see you were kidding by saying you'd break his kneecaps with floor pumps. So, what will you use?
BTW, I very much like your plan including an approach to helping him improve skills.

Eric F 

IMO...The prevailing message should be that riders in a group are all responsible for the safety of each other, which includes conforming to the standards and etiquette of group rides. The faster the speed, the higher the standards, and a rider who can't conform is a danger to everyone.

Good luck!

LeeG

42 yrs ago I transitioned from fast solo touring to riding with a bike club to training with a racing club and racing. I assisted in the promotion and management of a few local races. I am now an old fart with an ebike. This ebike rider should not be in any pack riding. He should not be attempting to learn to ride in a paceline with his ebike. The club riders need to tell him firmly and clearly that he should stay a couple bike lengths behind the paceline. The mass of his ebike and power on tap makes him respond differently than the other riders regardless of skill level. Before he takes out someone he’ll probably take out himself somewhere where skills should keep him on the road and not into a ditch or guardrail.
Don’t accomodate to dangerous and clueless people.

cat0020

This is America, people are entitled to do whatever they want, even stupid things.
Yeah, consequences can be deadly, but hey, it's America, FREEDOM to die and kill others along the way!!!

After participating in group rides, training rides, racing clubs for two decades; I stopped riding with groups about 13 years ago. Only been riding with people I know or familiar with their riding skills since.
I can ride MTB in protected open space with trailhead just 1/2 mile from my driveway, paved designated cycling trail lead to National Park 6 miles away, and even downhill cycling friendly ski resort is well within 1/2 hour drive.

Sure, ebikes allow riders of different ability to participate, that's the consequence when you have all different ability of riders riding in groups.
I would imagine ebikes should get their own ebike group rides and sort out the cycling abilities themselves accordingly.

palincss

There's nothing unique to e-bikes about this, and clubs with pacelines have long since worked out ways to keep fast riders lacking safe bike handling skills from joining their pacelines.

Incidentally, I don't know about your club's class rating system, but in my bike club, the "D" class is for rides under 20 miles at average moving speeds of less than 10 mph. Nobody who was capable of hanging with a 19 mph pace line would be interested in a D ride. We do have several classes where pacelining does not take place at all, ever.

palincss

Nobody is entitled to ride in a paceline. It's a privilege, not a right. You are, after all, putting everybody at risk, not just yourself.

palincss

Pacelining groups have had decades of experience getting rid of people who they feel don't belong. There's no conundrum about it. You don't let them in, and if they try to hang on the back you drop them. Riding in a paceline is not like sitting next to someone in a city bus, it's much more like a highly choreographed trapeeze act. Wheels are often only inches apart, and a wheel contact at 18 mph can result in disaster for the group. You would have to be stupid indeed to allow someone you don't trust to put you in that kind of danger.

palincss

There's a difference between riding with members of a club they have joined, and riding in a pace line. You have no right to ride in a paceline, especially a double rotating paceline as the original post described. It's a privilege and a matter of trust.

palincss

You flat out tell them they cannot ride in your paceline. Worst case, if somebody is sucking your wheel and they won't stop, you do realize if there is a wheel to wheel contact in a situation like that, the one in front is going to notice a small thump while the one in back is going to crash.

palincss

Class 3 e-bikes aren't allowed on MUPs anyway.

palincss

Unless you're in a racing club, you'll note that there are rides and ride classes that do not feature pacelining at all. If they don't act like jerks, there is no reason why someone on an e-bike cannot integrate perfectly well in a group ride. I belong to a couple of bike clubs that have had members riding e-bikes on rides for years now.

Polaris OBark

I know. My wife rides a class-1 e-bike, and although we aren't doing group rides, she rides at my (excruciatingly slow) pace or only a wee bit faster to "encourage" me.

My suggestion was aimed at this particular group/problem rider.

palincss

Perhaps you should get a class 1 e-bike too. The two of you could ride together. You could even go on club rides together. There are plenty of group rides that don't feature pacelines or other tightly clustered groups of riders.

gpburdell

You think the OP's B group is going to be able to drop an ebike rider if he's on a class-3 with assist to 28mph?

As I'd posted, yes OP needed to be extremely clear to the new guy about the safety issues. The discussion was about what to do when such an individual "insists on tagging along" after the OP's suggestions he join the D group while he gains skills.

Your suggestion is to cause him to crash, at speed, likely causing injury and property damage.

I wouldn't advocate violence as a solution, but each to their own I guess.

That's not the case everywhere.

There's also the matter of enforcement - even though class3 ebikes aren't allowed on non-road-adjacent MUPs in Georgia that doesn't mean anyone bothers to enforce that law.

palincss

I have personally seen how an experienced pace line group has gotten rid of someone they wanted out by making creative use of a traffic light, managing to strand the offending rider at the light while the group sped away. I've also seen groups make an impromptu route change at an intersection once they got the drop-ee off the back and out of sight. Remember, these groups have been at it for in some cases 50 years. I'm sure they have a well-rehearsed repertoire of tricks. An electric motor won't save a novice.