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Want a 46 -24 double crankset

Old 12-01-21, 09:55 AM
  #26  
robow
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
Why not just do the easy thing and remove your inner chain ring?

Your set up may be wrong. I use Shimano STI for decades with zero front shifting issues even on extremely wide range cranks. If you are using a mountain bike triple…which sounds like you are…,
Do you mean remove the middle chain ring, and then move the largest ring to what was the middle spot. Remember, I've currently got a Sugino 46-36-26 crankset, so I'm guessing it was more road then MTB..

The wonkiness of the shifting comes with both Ultegra or Tiagra STI triple brifters, in that, to go from the large ring down to the middle, I have to press the small lever twice very carefully and with precision so the chain drops down into the middle ring (that damn trimming mode). Have to be careful because at times it will then drop down to smallest ring. Then when trying to get back into the largest ring from the middle ring, I sometimes have to drop into the smaller ring and climb from the bottom thru the middle to get back to the big ring. Other times I can get it to go back up to the big ring from the middle ring as it should. Now admittingly I have the chainline set up to take full advantage of the largest ring 46, since that's where I'm at over 90% of the time.
Now I know I'm about to hear that it's all in my set up and I'm an idiot (which is sometimes true) but others have tried without satisfactory results as well.
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Old 12-01-21, 11:33 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by robow
Do you mean remove the middle chain ring, and then move the largest ring to what was the middle spot. Remember, I've currently got a Sugino 46-36-26 crankset, so I'm guessing it was more road then MTB..

The wonkiness of the shifting comes with both Ultegra or Tiagra STI triple brifters, in that, to go from the large ring down to the middle, I have to press the small lever twice very carefully and with precision so the chain drops down into the middle ring (that damn trimming mode). Have to be careful because at times it will then drop down to smallest ring. Then when trying to get back into the largest ring from the middle ring, I sometimes have to drop into the smaller ring and climb from the bottom thru the middle to get back to the big ring. Other times I can get it to go back up to the big ring from the middle ring as it should. Now admittingly I have the chainline set up to take full advantage of the largest ring 46, since that's where I'm at over 90% of the time.
Now I know I'm about to hear that it's all in my set up and I'm an idiot (which is sometimes true) but others have tried without satisfactory results as well.
the sugino crank and rings could be part of the problem. Are they just plain chain rings or do they have the ramps/pins etc that help make shifting much easier with Shimano rings? I had ad ultegar 9 speed triple setup with brifters.....it took a bit to get set up but worked well overall, but nowhere nears as nice as 105 5800 with compact double
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Old 12-01-21, 12:02 PM
  #28  
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Rivendell offers some triple cranks as a double, using the outer chainwheel mount for a guard. They offer their Silver with a 34x24, and the Clipper with 42x26. They also sell the Silver with 38x24.
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Old 12-01-21, 02:30 PM
  #29  
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When I changed the 30T granny of the Truvativ Elita triple that came on our flat-bar tandem, the bike shop said that the Shimano 105 FD would not be able to handle it. I tried it anyway. Not only did the FD not miss a beat picking the chain up from the new granny (24T), there were times (friction mode) when I would overshift right past the 39T middle straight into the big ring (52T). It was unintentional, but it made that shift like buttah. I could have had a 52/24 double, and it shifts just fine! I deffo agree with trying it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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Old 12-01-21, 04:25 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by robow
Do you mean remove the middle chain ring, and then move the largest ring to what was the middle spot. Remember, I've currently got a Sugino 46-36-26 crankset, so I'm guessing it was more road then MTB..
Sorry. Yes the middle ring.

It’s hard to say if the Sugino is road or mountain without seeing it. It’s likely a 110/74mm bcd crank. That means it can take a 24 inner. Try the experiment with the existing ring to see if it work, then get a 24 tooth inner.

The wonkiness of the shifting comes with both Ultegra or Tiagra STI triple brifters, in that, to go from the large ring down to the middle, I have to press the small lever twice very carefully and with precision so the chain drops down into the middle ring (that damn trimming mode). Have to be careful because at times it will then drop down to smallest ring. Then when trying to get back into the largest ring from the middle ring, I sometimes have to drop into the smaller ring and climb from the bottom thru the middle to get back to the big ring. Other times I can get it to go back up to the big ring from the middle ring as it should. Now admittingly I have the chainline set up to take full advantage of the largest ring 46, since that's where I'm at over 90% of the time.
Now I know I'm about to hear that it's all in my set up and I'm an idiot (which is sometimes true) but others have tried without satisfactory results as well.
Come, now. I don’t tell people they are idiots. They may be wrong or they haven’t thought of something but I don’t call people “idiots”.

That said, there are a couple of things I would try. First, see if you have some stickiness in the cables. It’s easy to get the cables slack so that you can lubricate the cables. While you are at it, check to see if the cable has any kinks in it. I’ve seen cables with a slight kink that cause all kinds of problems with shifting.

Your cable could be too slack as well. If the tension isn’t right, you will have problems getting the derailer to move properly.

Finally, you may want to consider the bottom bracket spindle length. Front derailers tend to work better in the middle of the range than out on the extremes, especially when it comes to the outboard direction. Moving the crank inboard a couple of millimeters could change the way the bike shifts significantly.

squirtdad’s advice is also worth considering. Ramped and pinned rings do work better with STI.
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Old 12-01-21, 05:30 PM
  #31  
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So by now it must be clear that:
1. A doublized triple is cheap and effective, if you can find the rings you want. You can find 44T and 446T middle rings, ie with shift aids, in 110 or 130 BCD if you look.
2. You don't have to live with crazy big gaps on your cassette
3. Manufacturers' capacity specs are guides, not laws.

On thing to watch out for though: On your small ring and small end of the cassette, the chain comes very close to and sometimes touches the inside edge of the big ring at its back end. This gets worse with shorter chain stays and bigger chainring gaps. At best this can make an annoying noise, at worst it can cause un-intended chainring upshifts (thanks to the shift aids grabbing the chain) with grizzly consequences when the chain get to the FD cage. This is one of the good reasons to respect the 16 tooth difference manufacturers push. A couple of possible work-arounds:
1. Space the chainrings a bit further apart with chainring spacers. This can allow the chain to get hung up between rings, so reduce your spacers if that happens. I have wondered about adding bumps of epoxy to the inside of the big ring to prevent hang-up, but haven't actually tried it.
2. Bias your chainset outward 2-3 mm with a bottom bracket spacer under the fixed cup or with a longer BB. This will make the "big-big" combination noisy and rough, but at least the "small-small" will be safe due to reduced chain angle in those gears.

Such freedom to fiddle is one reason I stick to square-taper bottom brackets.

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Old 12-01-21, 06:11 PM
  #32  
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Stuart, I have switched out already the inner 26 ring that it came with for a 24, sorry for the confusion.

oldschool, there will never be an issue with me for a small ring to small ring combination because that's not something I ever do, again, the smaller ring is only used to bail me out for those rare times when I need a really low low. Now, I will admit to being a bad boy and cross chaining the big to big all the time, keeps me from having to drop down a ring and I can live with those consequences, ha.
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Old 12-01-21, 08:05 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by robow
I will admit to being a bad boy and cross chaining the big to big all the time, keeps me from having to drop down a ring and I can live with those consequences, ha.
Even more reason to run your big in the middle position.

John
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Old 12-01-21, 10:29 PM
  #34  
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On my touring bike, I have a White Industries 46/30T crankset, which gives me the option of going lower if I need to. On the back, I have an 11-speed XT long cage derailleur that easily handles a 42T cassette. Having said that, the 36T in the back and the 30T in the front give me as low a gear as you can find on commercial touring bikes. I use Microshift bar end shifters -- friction for the front/left, and the mountain-compatible version on the back/right. [Microshift now also makes its own 10-speed (Advent X) derailleur, cassettes, etc. FWIW. My kid is using it now having tired of 12-speed.]
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Old 12-02-21, 01:47 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by wgscott
Having said that, the 36T in the back and the 30T in the front give me as low a gear as you can find on commercial touring bikes. .]
Not really. My Surly LHT came with a 26T up front, and a 36T in the back. Basically all the major commercial touring bike come with that combination, Trek 520, Kona Sutra, Surly... I wouldn't want anything less, for my purposes, I even changed my 26T to a 24T.
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Old 12-02-21, 07:44 PM
  #36  
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True, I normally regard my setup as a 1x with bailout, but I don't trust myself to not go down to "small-small" unintentionally toward the end of a long hard ride. Hence my fiddling with chainline. Bottom bracket spacers are my secret weapon.

It would be safer to use an outer ring with no shift aids, but then it would not shift as well. That's the problem with shift aids, they don't actually know what you want, they just grab the chain and try to shift it whenever it contacts the inside of the outer chain ring.
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