denis_987

I know that the ortlieb rack-pack 24 liters and rack-pack 31 liters can be combined with Back-Rollers classic but does anybody ever tried the 49 liters version with back-rollers pro classic (70 liters)?

I know...I pack too much stuff, but I like my luxury items on camping!

Actually, I ride with a full loaded trailer with 100 liters capacity and two back-roller classic panniers (40 liters) and I want to switch to 70 liters panniers. So 70 liters panniers + 31 liters rack-pack will have the same capacity of my trailer, but no more space for food or miscellenous items. That is why I want to know if I can attach the 49 liters rack-pack with back-roller classic pro (70 liters) on my rear rack. I will put my two back-roller classic (40 liters) on my new front rack.

djb

Ive used a 31L rack pack, but I imagine the only real limitation for a larger one would be that the distance between the two end straps that we click into the tab on the panniers, might be too wide.
I've only ever seen the 70L ortliebs in a store, the plus versions. Quite impressive bags, but they can't be that common.
I'd ask ortlieb first, you should get proper info from them.

djb

monsieur denis, how much wider is the 49l vs the 31? That should give you a clue, and I suspect the 70l panniers are a bit wider on top also, so chances are it works--although I reckon different rear racks have different widths, so putting the panniers further away from each other with some models.

Tourist in MSN

What rack do you use that you propose to put 70 liter panniers AND another 49 liters of stuff on top?

I only know of one rack that is rated for a weight that is above 40 kg.

Doug64

I use the large Ortliebb Rackpack, and have never clipped them to my Ortlieb Back Roller panniers. I have used two 1/4" shock cord bungees.
I have used them for 15 years and a lot of miles without any problems.

denis_987

I asked ortlieb directly on their website more than a month ago and still no reply from them

djb

As Doug shows, simply using bungees is a simple option.
A little note of warning, if you do go this route (49L and 70L panniers) be wary of the rack pack being overly heavy. When I've put heavier items in mine, it did make the bike a bit waggy waggy simply because the weight is so high.
Kinda like when people attach a milk crates onto their rack and put heavy stuff in it.
I learned to put heavier things low in panniers and bulky but lighter stuff in rack pack.

But frankly, with 120 litres of stuff plus your weight mostly on the rear wheel, be prepared for a possible crapstorm of spoke issues that this setup could bring.

denis_987

My rear rack is the one that came with my Ghost Square hybrid bike. I can load upto 25 kg max (written on the rack). So far, with my 40 liters panniers, I load about 10 kg.
I think I can easily use the 70 liters panniers and a rack pack to acheive 25 kg. I weighed my full packed trailer and it weighs 22 kg at 100 liters capacity (minus the weight of the trailer).

denis_987

Makes sense! Maybe I'm due for a slimming diet of my stuff!

Salutations de la Gaspésie!

denis_987

Thanks for the photo, it gives me a good idea of the width. Is that the 31 liters rackpack or more?

djb

Salut la Gaspe, because I have this photo right here, this is my 31L bag for referenceAnd I have to thank Doug for getting the idea to get one of these, very handy bags. I tend not to really fill it, but it's so useful for overflow groceries and light bulky things.

Tourist in MSN

The 31 liter Rack Pack and 70 liters of panniers would be 101 liters. Djb showed his 31 liter Rack Pack above, mine in the photo below. I have the standard Backrollers at 40 liters, rack is a Tubus Logo EVO rated at 40 kg. (Tubus dropped the rating to 26 kg after I bought it.)



I recently learned I was doing this wrong, I was only clipping two of the four straps. More here:

I put a sheet of Coroplast in my Rack Pack to give it more structure, that holds it in a shape more like a cylinder instead of a wet pillowcase. I first tried cardboard, that worked well enough that I decided to buy some Coroplast at home despot for a permanent addition. I put lots of parallel creases in the Coroplast about 2 inches apart from each other so that is in the bottom and rolls up the sides of the bag.

If you get one, the Rack Pack sits on the panniers, not the rack. I usually still use a strap around the Rack Pack and the rack (black in the photo).

I also found that the 31 liter Rack Pack is a perfect size for airline carry on bags with most airlines. This was my luggage for one of my trips, I wore the helmet onto the plane so that the baggage handlers did not have a chance to crack it.



I have also used that Rack Pack as a carry on bag on trips where I was not biking, it was a handy thing to have.
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djb

ha, I've only ever used two clips also....thanks.

"je vais dormir moins noiseux ce soir" (for the Gaspe guy, he'll get that)

interesting idea on the coroplast. I've always had the tent in mine, so the shape of the rolled up tent in its bag has kept the shape well enough. Generally I've always kept stuff in the rackpack that I only take out at end of day, so it has always kept its shape well enough due to teh stuff in it. Ive sometimes stuck a watermelon or whatever stuff bought off a roadside vendor in Latin America, so I've always found it handy to have spare room in it, same idea for end of day groceries before heading to a campground.

Tourist in MSN

My tent and other dense stuff goes in panniers. I only want the lighter stuff on top. That said, sometimes the 1.5 liter bottle of wine goes on top, that is not very light.

I first used a pizza box that did not have any pizza grease for a stiffener, used that for a few trips. Then when I knew that it was something I would keep using, switched to Coroplast.

Some of my tours, by end of tour I had so little food left that I no longer need a pack on top in back, on two trips I was down to only a tent pole bag at end of trip. But those trips I usually used a dry bag that I could fold up and put inside a pannier at the end, the Rack Pack stiffener in the folding part would make that difficult. And I do not want to discard the Coroplast, so if I might want to fold up my bag on top later, I use cardboard that I do not mind discarding later. I have since cut different tent poles that fold up short enough to fit in a pannier.

My hiking shoes are usually in the bag on top in back, they are not a convenient shape for packing. But otherwise, my bag on top is almost always just used for food. Some trips in colder weather where I have some light density clothing, that will go in the bag on top too. And it is convenient to have a bag that can take a lot of volume. On my Maritimes trip, I saw a giant plastic box filled with really delicious looking croissants that was on the discounted day old bakery shelf. That box fit in my bag on top nicely for the several days it took to consume the croissants.

djb

I too keep my shoes there, and while I do get reducing weight and size of a load, having extra room not used is so useful for examples of your croissant story. That makes me think of seeing two guys my age in the morning at a campground, they had total minimum bags, but when they saw me with my coffee and eating yogurt and some brioche things I had bought in the town probably 30k away, they looked so envious....

Tourist in MSN

Yup.



Bad photo, I should not have put the Skyr on top of the croissant box. That box started out with 10 mini-cheese croissants. I think I was down to 4 at photo time.

I am not sure how many liters that plastic bakery box is, but it is not going to fit in a frame bag very well.

Photo below from a different trip.






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Tourist in MSN

When I previous asked which rack was used, that question was in part to assess how wide the panniers might be apart from each other since the length of the Rack Pack was pertinent to width of panniers on the rack.

I was looking for something else and found a photo that I took eight years ago, at that time I had my old Surly rack on my Rohloff bike instead of the Tubus Logo. The Surly is a really wide rack, you can see how wide apart the panniers are. The panniers are far enough apart that my Carradice Nelson Longflap does not sit on the panniers the way that it does with my Logo.




Bike was leaning on the kickstand, I intentionally rotated the camera to match the lean, thus everything else looks leaning.

Same panniers and same Nelson Longflap on my Tubus Logo EVO on a different bike below. Panniers are a bit closer together and the Nelson Longflap is supported better on them.



And the lower mounting point on the Logo instead of up at the top of the Surly rack is also apparent for pannier height.

denis_987

The 49 l rackpack is 3 inches wider than the 31 l. And the 70 l panniers are 4 inches (each) wider than the 40 l.

By looking at the various photos (thanks all), I think I will be too wide to my taste. And I am sure that I will packed the free space under the rackpack and maybe exceed the limit of my rack.

I think I should keep my 40 l panniers, buy the 31 l rackpack and put some stuff on my front rack (support 18 kg). Also, I think I should reduce my "essential" stuff ! Decisions, decisions

djb

I highly recommend getting some front panniers, spreading out the weight throughout the bike is a big advantage for handling and making life easier for your rear wheel.
I also highly recommend getting out for some weekend 2 day trips, camping overnight, and figuring out what you "really" need and ultimately reducing all your "essential" crap.

et voilà, tout chargé !

Tourist in MSN

A few other high volume options:

I have seen photos of the 40 liter Backrollers on a front rack, but it has been several years since I saw that. I suspect that it would work best if they were mounted higher than most low-rider racks would mount them because they would hang pretty low. That is a 15 liter gain over the standard front roller panniers that are 25 liters.

Seven years ago I was trying to figure out how to do a trip with more volume but not use a front rack. Reason for no front rack was that I would need my suspension fork for that trip. I ended up buying a pair of the rear Carradry panniers. I do not recall what their rating was but when I got them I concluded the rating was wrong, I think they are about 50 liters. To make a long story short, that trip did not happen so I had the panniers with no trip to use them. Then finally decided to use them on my 2019 trip just to find out how they worked. Instead of my normal front loader panniers for the front, I used a pair that I bought at a garage sale that were also gray, I think the front panniers were 30 liter, add the ~~50 liter in back, I used a smaller drybag on top in back that was probably 20 liters, thus about 100 liters total without handlebar bag. I could have used a bigger drybag on top instead of the blue one. Photo below.



Before I went into the interior of Iceland I stocked up on food, had about two and a half weeks of food on my bike. I had another dry bag between my 31 liter Rack Pack and seatpost. Photo below. I think that is the heaviest I have ever had that bike, food is heavy. Probably about 105 or 110 liters not counting handlebar bag. I usually strap my rain gear on top of my front rollers where it is handy, that is a few more liters of volume.



But, keep in mind that when you put that much weight on a bike, it can feel like a wet noodle.

My Thorn Sherpa is rated for 30 or 35 kg of weight not counting the weight of bike or rider. My Thorn Nomad in the photos above is rated for 62 kg of weight, not counting weight of rider or bike. Thus, about double what my Sherpa can carry. That Nomad in the photos is a heavy bike, built to carry a load and it handled that amount of gear with ease.

My Lynskey Backroad, Lynskey claims it is the heaviest duty touring bike built and has no limit for weight, but I think that is a crock. I like the bike but I bought it to be my light duty touring bike. I would never try to put the weight on it that I had in the above photos.

My point is that you might get the big volume bags, load up the bike, but find that the frame just can't take it.

Djb rides his bikes down hills at speeds that I refuse to try, but he is very comfortable with the loads on his bikes.

Doug64

This is the load I carry in my 31L Rackpack. It holds all my camping gear: blue bag is the 2-person tent, small orange and black bag is pillow, green is 25 degree sleeping bag, black bag is sil-nylon ground cloth, and orange is Therm-a-rest pad. The tent poles and stakes in the red bag also fit inside the Rackpack. Total weight is just under 10 lbs.


A water bottle for scale. The picture above has our new smaller tent in it, so I could take a more comfortable larger pillow.

denis_987

My ghost square is rated at 140 kg (308 lb) total weight (bike, rider and luggage). I'm about 180 lb, so I'm confident that I will not get to that limit of weight because presently I have about 70 lb of stuff.
308 - 70 (gear) - 180 (me) = 58 lb. minus some more for two water bottles and my handle bar bag, maximum two days of foods, I'm still far from the weight limit. This is without considering reduction on my gear.

Thinking also of putting camping gear and light stuff on the rack pack. I will also get the ortlieb front panniers and will transfert my Arkel trunk bag (use for small items, fruit, nutrition bar) on my front rack for easy access (instead of under the rackpack). I should be fine with that set-up.

djb

70 lbs is a lot. Have you ever bike toured before, I'm not sure if you've mentioned this before.

Tourist in MSN

I assumed the 70 pounds included the bike, racks, empty weight of panniers, etc. My Tubus front and rear racks, pair of Front Rollers, pair of Back Rollers, and 31 liter Rack Pack weight 6 kg, empty weight. Even if it was a light weight bike, that is already getting heavier before you add gear.

We probably will find out soon enough

denis_987

Yes, +/- 70 lb is about everything, camping gear, panniers (empty), clothes, padlock, etc... I didn't weight the food, water, sweets, handle bar bag, flashing light, gps and other small items
I have done three two-weeks trips so far with my trailer. Now, I want to go without it. I like my trailer (Radical Design Cyclove IV), but it is more or less bulky in a small motel room when is it raining.

As I said earlier, I am considering reducing my stuff...will see!