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Can RX100 handle an 8 speed cassette?

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Can RX100 handle an 8 speed cassette?

Old 09-10-21, 06:55 PM
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Can RX100 handle an 8 speed cassette?

I have a 90-something (I think) Panasonic equipped with RX100. It's currently 126mm spaced with a 7-speed cassette. The rim is borked so I'm looking at new wheels. In my area there aren't many options for 126mm/7 speed wheels so I'm wondering how painful it would be to go to 130mm/8 speed. The downtube shifter is currently indexed but can be switched to non-indexed, but is that my only concern? Can the RX100 RD handle an 8 speed cassette?

The hub is fine so worst case scenario I'll have a new wheel built on the existng hub, but the cheaper option is to find a replacement wheel.

I saw a few threads with similar questions but nothing about what this derailleur can actually handle so if you know of a thread containing this info, I'd be happy if you could point me in the right direction.
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Old 09-10-21, 07:05 PM
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Yeah, no problem. Just add an 8 speed wheel, chain & cassette. You can go friction or use an 8 speed shifter. RX100 came in both 7 and 8 speed, downtube shifters or sti. Pretty much any rx100, 105 or 600 eight speed shifter will get you in business.
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Old 09-10-21, 07:32 PM
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Ah, awesome. I hadn't thought about the chain, so that's helpful info. This is my first older bike so the compatibility of older groupsets is all new info to me. Thanks for the quick response.
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Old 09-10-21, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by DanBell
Ah, awesome. I hadn't thought about the chain, so that's helpful info. This is my first older bike so the compatibility of older groupsets is all new info to me. Thanks for the quick response.
There are actually 8 speed RX100 brifters if I recall right... And the early 7 speeds might not have the swing for 8 speed, but I think it would be okay. If it is a really wide range cassette you might have a small issue.

Others who are smarter than I can chime in as well.
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Old 09-11-21, 07:10 AM
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Check the part number on the back of the rear derailleur, Circa 1994-1995, RX100 was upgraded to 8 speed and got a new derailleur that was 7/8 speed compatible. Its part number was RD-A551. The previous version, RD-A550 was designed as a 6/7 speed derailleur. It may or may not have an issue.

Unfortunately, it's not simply an issue of going from 126mm to 130mm. Things like stay and dropout design come into effect, as they affect the distance of the derailleur from the cassette or freewheel. This is why some members will report a successful conversion with a particular derailleur while another reports a failed attempt. The frame design is an often overlooked factor that comes into play.
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Old 09-11-21, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
Check the part number on the back of the rear derailleur, Circa 1994-1995, RX100 was upgraded to 8 speed and got a new derailleur that was 7/8 speed compatible. Its part number was RD-A551. The previous version, RD-A550 was designed as a 6/7 speed derailleur. It may or may not have an issue.

Unfortunately, it's not simply an issue of going from 126mm to 130mm. Things like stay and dropout design come into effect, as they affect the distance of the derailleur from the cassette or freewheel. This is why some members will report a successful conversion with a particular derailleur while another reports a failed attempt. The frame design is an often overlooked factor that comes into play.
Good points.

I'll add that a particular hub's spacing might also place the cassette a bit closer or further from the dropout, and which might also affect the outcome here if using a 7s derailer with 8s cassette.

I've seen plenty of instances of indexing error cropping up when using pre-8s derailers with 8s shifters and cassette.
The problem isn't that the derailer will reach it's travel limit, but rather that the indexing will be off, as the shift to the largest cog doesn't move the chain quite far enough for quiet operation. An annoying compromise to the cable adjustment is then required in order to shift to both ends of the cassette's range. Again, this is not a hard limit to the derailer's travel, but is a leverage issue affecting the derailer's actuation ratio.
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Old 09-11-21, 01:22 PM
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Another option is to look on eBay for the 8 speed version mention by T-Mar above.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw...0&_osacat=7294


Ask the seller what the model numbers are..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/25511296459...YAAOSw2cVhKujZ
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Old 09-13-21, 09:31 PM
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Thanks for the replies. Sorry I've been absent from the thread, I stopped getting email alerts to the replies for some reason.

The derailleur is RD-A550, so it's the older 6/7 speed model. Part of my issue is that I'm in Japan, and the availability of older parts is not at all similar to what is available in the states or Europe. In general the older stuff that's available is high end parts or perfectly preserved parts. Both things drive the cost up considerably over what I want to spend on this bike. Ordering from overseas is possible in some cases but is just going to drive the price up as well. And once I start talking about replacing the derailleur to fit some misfit wheel, well I'm probably better off just having a new wheel built around the existing hub/cassette.

Most of the wheels that pop up online here and would work for this bike are tubulars, which is a road I don't really want to go down at the moment.

Last edited by DanBell; 09-14-21 at 12:30 AM.
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Old 09-14-21, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by DanBell
The rim is borked
How is the rim borked? Wobbles and hops can usually be fixed by truing.
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Old 09-14-21, 01:13 AM
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It's bent. A bike shop told me they could true it but it would be a temporary fix, so I just did it myself to see how it held up. I rode it for a few months like that then popped two spokes on the way home one day and haven't ridden it since.
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Old 09-14-21, 08:42 AM
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I would just re-use the existing hub and have the rim replaced.

Of course, I am on record opposing spreading frame dropouts.
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Old 09-14-21, 08:55 AM
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I've come to like off-center/asymmetric rear rims.

Velocity makes the A23 (and used to make the aerohead) in Off-Center (OC).
DT makes a couple of asymmetric rims.

I don't know if you can do 8/9/10 speed with the 126mm and 126mm spacing.

Tolerances will be tight, but you can do 126mm with the 8/9/10 and asymmetric.
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Old 09-14-21, 09:19 AM
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I didn't read the thread, but I can relate my experience - I have a 1995 Cannondale R500, which came with 7speed RX100 and a triple crankset, which I have converted to 8 speed RX100, and a double crank. I used a lot of A551 parts - wheelset, RD, right shifter. The Cannondale's chainstay spread is 128mm, because in 1995 both 126 and 130mm wheels were being spec'd.
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Old 09-14-21, 05:30 PM
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Thanks for all the responses. Since the goal is to get this back on the road as cheaply and simply as possible, it seems like just rebuilding the wheel with the hub and cassette I have now is the way forward. I had hoped that a cheaper 8 speed wheel could be swapped in with no/few other changes but that doesn't seem possible with the RD-A550 derailleur.
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Old 09-14-21, 06:40 PM
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DanBell If you want to run an 8/9/10 speed wheel, you can use a 7 speed cassette. Just add the correct spacer. "7-speed cassettes fit fine on 8- and 9-speed (and most 10-speed) hubs if you put a 4.5 mm spacer onto the body before the cassette." ~Sheldon Brown

More info from Sheldon here: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7-7.shtml#stay
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Old 09-14-21, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jdawginsc
There are actually 8 speed RX100 brifters if I recall right... And the early 7 speeds might not have the swing for 8 speed, but I think it would be okay. If it is a really wide range cassette you might have a small issue.

Others who are smarter than I can chime in as well.
Claris 8spd brifters will also work with this, 105 and 600 tricolor IIRC
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Old 09-14-21, 07:23 PM
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Keep in mind, if you upgrade from 7 speed to 8 speed.

Then, 8, 9, and 10 speed all use approximately the same cassette width.

It is possible to friction shift up to 11 speed rearends, and probably 12 speed, although it may depend on the actual equipment used.
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Old 09-14-21, 11:00 PM
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This is pretty simple. Disconnect the RD cable and back out the low limit screw and move it by hand to see how far it will move.

You can take two measurements. One as it is currently adjusted to 7 speed, and one with the limit screw backed out. If you pick up 5mm, or more, you should be fine.

Hopefully there is a shop that can spread the rear dropouts to 130mm and make sure everything is aligned.

Then go buy an 8-10 speed 130mm rear wheel, or wheelset if you want both wheels to match.

You’ll need to friction shift if you don’t have 8 speed shifters.

John

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Old 09-15-21, 04:18 AM
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For road setups, Shimano didn't change pull ratio for years. The only exception to that rule was for Dura Ace 7400, so if you don't have one of those rear mechs, you should be good to go for 8-speed.

Cheap way: (8 of 9 setup)

1) Get a new back rim, new spokes and nipples (preferably butted) some Shimano SL-BS64 bar end shifters and down tube cable mounts, a new KMC or FSA 9-speed chain, and a new Shimano nine-speed cassette.
2) Disassemble the old rear wheel and discard the old rim & spokes.
3) Have the rear wheel built back up with the new spokes and rim.
4) Install the new 9-speed cassette, minus the second outside cog.
5) Install the bar-end shifters and the cable stops, along with new cables.
6) Adjust the rear derailleur stops so that the sweep is across the new rear cassette.
7) Test and adjust as required.

Another option, for the brifter-inclined and well-heeled/well-versed at horse-trading:

1) Get a new back rim, new spokes and nipples (preferably butted), some Campagnolo 8-speed Ergopower shifters, down-tube cable stops, a Campagnolo 8-speed rear derailleur (front may be optional), a 8/9 speed Shimano freehub body, and one additional Shimano 7-speed cog and spacer. The cog should be one to three teeth bigger than the biggest cog on the current (HG) cassette.
2) Remove the old freehub body from the bent rear wheel. Replace with the 8/9 speed freewheel.
3) Disassemble the old rear wheel and discard the old rim & spokes.
4) Have the rear wheel built back up with the new spokes and rim. Preferably, the interlace pattern for the drive side should be second-crossing, as this will ensure a low profile for the cassette setup you will be using.
5) Install the new cog and spacer onto the freehub body, then the cassette. Tighten as required. Spacing should be perfect for Ergopower 8 and will be much improved, as you will be using Shimano HG-profiled cogs. IG-profile will likely work, but not as well.
6) Reinstall the rim strip and tire.
7) Mount the new brifters and derailleur(s), along with fresh cables.
8) Install refurbished rear wheel. This may take some stretching of the drop-outs if the spacing is 126mm.
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Old 09-15-21, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by DanBell
Thanks for all the responses. Since the goal is to get this back on the road as cheaply and simply as possible, it seems like just rebuilding the wheel with the hub and cassette I have now is the way forward. I had hoped that a cheaper 8 speed wheel could be swapped in with no/few other changes but that doesn't seem possible with the RD-A550 derailleur.
What is the spacing right now? I’d it is closer to 128 you can get a 130 in there. If 126, it is a relatively easy cold set for a shop or home. You only need a mm on each side.

If you can get an 8 speed wheel in there, just throw on a 7 speed cassette with a spacer on the inside of the cassette to push it out a bit, which will still line up with your 7 speed derailleur and will continue to index.

Though I still suspect you can push the 550 version of the derailleur to shift 8 if you don’t run a really large inner cog.
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Old 09-15-21, 06:00 PM
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It's 126mm spaced. I don't have any issue putting a 130mm wheel in there. I've read enough about it to feel comfortable doing it, at least for this bike. If I can use a modern wheel 8/9/10 speed wheel with a spacer and the current 7 speed cassette that would probably be the cheapest route, because those kinds of wheels are the most common on the second hand sites here.
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Old 09-15-21, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by DanBell
It's 126mm spaced. I don't have any issue putting a 130mm wheel in there. I've read enough about it to feel comfortable doing it, at least for this bike. If I can use a modern wheel 8/9/10 speed wheel with a spacer and the current 7 speed cassette that would probably be the cheapest route, because those kinds of wheels are the most common on the second hand sites here.
Definitely doable...
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Old 09-16-21, 07:58 PM
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Just tried to get the cassette off of the old wheel... That thing might never have been removed in the 20-odd years of the bike's life. Still, new 8/9/10 speed wheel plus spacers plus new cassette is still cheaper than a wheel rebuild with a new rim.
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Old 09-28-21, 12:34 AM
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Just wanted to say thanks for all the advice and suggestions. In the end I found a second hand set of Shimano WH-R501 wheels online for about $45. The bearings needed to be repacked but once that was done they spin great, and with 4.5mm of spacers the 7-speed cassette lines up perfectly and shifting is smooth and clean. Thanks for all the help!
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Old 09-28-21, 02:48 AM
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Awesome! Good knowledge to have!

Originally Posted by DanBell
Just wanted to say thanks for all the advice and suggestions. In the end I found a second hand set of Shimano WH-R501 wheels online for about $45. The bearings needed to be repacked but once that was done they spin great, and with 4.5mm of spacers the 7-speed cassette lines up perfectly and shifting is smooth and clean. Thanks for all the help!
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