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How do you train your strength on bike?

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How do you train your strength on bike?

Old 09-16-17, 08:23 PM
  #26  
taras0000
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So the 58x10 that Bos is riding is ~152.5". For a 12 tooth drive, 69 tooth chainring gets you 151.3" and 70 teeth gets you 153.5"

Last edited by taras0000; 09-16-17 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 09-16-17, 08:27 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by taras0000
So the 58x10 that Bos is riding is ~152".
...and for a 500M, that only requires 41 pedal strokes
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Old 09-17-17, 05:52 PM
  #28  
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https://www.instagram.com/p/BR0m4QnA...y=bakosrichard

This guy is doing an 11t hub and cog. There are also rumours that there are unicorn like fixed BMX hubs out in the world that accommodate down to 9t cogs. Apparently BMX fixed was a short lived thing back in the 80s/90s. There's reports of some Polish guys training on 9t cogs.

I don't think big rings on track bikes have much of a chance of taco-ing. On road, you combine non straight drivelines with a little frame flex and an ultralight chainring and boom! Track chainrings aren't exactly ultra-light, track frames aren't exactly flexy (at least not the ones some person contemplating 70/12 would ride). Add to that that most track frames simply can't accommodate such big rings anyway
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Old 09-17-17, 11:05 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by brawlo
There are also rumours that there are unicorn like fixed BMX hubs out in the world that accommodate down to 9t cogs. Apparently BMX fixed was a short lived thing back in the 80s/90s.
That's right!! Back in the late 90's

We called it "Direct Drive" back then.

Pay close attention and note that the hub is fixed. No freewheel action.

Maybe I can find out who made his hubs...
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Old 09-18-17, 12:45 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by SyntaxMonstr
Apparently it's a custom hub with the sprocket built on, and it's of Russian origin.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BVrVX3tF...ken-by=bostheo

Found this on the interwebz, but I don't know if it's similar (I also know very little about track hubs, etc because I'm a noob): OWL HUB | BOMBTRACK BICYCLE COMPANY
I'm sorry, man. You are RIGHT. I didn't read everything on that page. I just saw the pics of the freewheel verision.


The Bombtrack Owl hubs is a further development of the original Bombtrack fixed hub released some years ago. The hub was designed from the ground up to be the ultimate in fixed freestyle featuring our patented and well proven fixed driver system. The hub comes with 9t and 10t cog options and finally avoids all problems with threaded cog hubs. Also available are matching hub guards machined from 7075 aluminium.

This is a FIXED hub:




The downside is that the axle is 14mm thick...the BMX standard. This wouldn't fit in our dropouts. Rear track hubs are 10mm thick.
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Old 09-19-17, 09:32 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by brawlo
I am currently focusing on sprinting. This summer will be my 9th season of racing. I've been concentrating on sprinting for the last 2 seasons, gradually getting faster. I could hang with the guys at club level racing in pretty much everything, with more strength in my sprint/power, but when I go to higher levels I'm just left behind. I am a strong scratch racer even, but when there's good racing with constant surging I'm just out the back door. So I decided to take a general hiatus from everything else and just concentrate on pure sprint for a while to see how I go with it, with an aim to head over to LA for 2018 world masters. I did have a go at concentrating on sprint under a coach in 2012/13 but his method and volume just didn't work for me and he wasn't very responsive to my feedback to I went back to just racing.

So for about the last 3 years I've been doing pure sprint work with some weights, UpUpUp trainer drills and track work when I can get there. I was doing weights over winter the first year and then dropped that as the track season started, just doing the trainer and track. I got a little faster. My biggest breakthrough came when I didn't bother with weights at all over winter. I did the trainer drills but instead of using the gearing guide, I did all hard efforts in 53/12. I amassed some serious strength out of that and set a PB of 12.0. Then last season I moved to bigger gears and more of the efforts mentioned and set 11.8. Even better than that was I rode a bad line and some more experience guys told me it could have easily been 11.7 with a tighter line. This last off season I purchased the kickr and am yet to see just how much of a difference that will be making. Unfortunately life with kids has kicked in this winter and messed things up a bit with training consistency, but hoping to at least be as fast if not faster than last season.
Ohh, interesting.

Please, keep us informed about your experience with the Kickr and the results you get. Looks like a very good investment.

I've read your experience with bigger gears. Which gear you were using for your F200 11.8?
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Old 09-19-17, 09:39 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by taras0000
Before, but ideally in separate workouts (if you're looking to max out with each one).

Strength is a component of power (power = force x speed, sort of). You need to be well rested to have a productive speed workout. You can grind out a strength workout as long as you have enough recovery between sets. As the workout goes on, you may be able to produce the same amount of force, but the rate at which you produce it goes down. This is okay in a strength workout, but not ideal. You NEVER want to allow this in a speed or power workout. If you train slow contractions, guess what your muscles will learn to do, contract slowly. This is why I wouldn't necessarily follow undergeared work with strength work. You can use undergear work as a "warm-up" to potentiate or prime the muscles to contract quickly IF the strength workout is primary workout in the session. The body will adapt to the greater stressor, so just keep in mind the purpose of that specific workout, and go through it accordingly.

When doing a speed/undergeared workout, you always stop as soon as the rate of work slows down. You can set yourself back a workout or two by not adhering to this principle.

On the flip side of potentiation, you can also use strength to prime power/speed. Get the body to generate a huge force, then remove some resistance when you want to apply speed. Donovan Bailey and Bruny Surin were doing single sets of ~600lb squats in their warm-up to running the 100m relay in Atlanta in '96. The secret is NOT MAXING OUT, and not cooking yourself with reps.
This a very insightful post. Thanks, Taras.

The next season I am going to try the strength-to-prime-power/speed approach to see if it adequates to my fisiology. I have only two days of track riding each weekend, but I have five (working days) for gym training. I'll keep you posted.
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Old 09-19-17, 09:45 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by carleton
The strength sessions on the bike were akin to overgear interval drills.

I had a road bike but rarely used it. I was on the spin bike more than any other saddle that year.

Programming was written by my coach who had been writing such programs for years. As Taras suggested, it trained strength, power, and speed separately.

I like to call it "Wax On, Wax Off" like from the Karate Kid film where Daniel trains the components of his karate movements separately then Miyagi puts him in a situation where he brings then together at once and everything is in perfect form with strength, power, and speed.
I got it now. The spin bike explains everything. I tought you were more focussed on training strength only on your track bike.

Thanks, Carleton-san
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Old 09-19-17, 09:46 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke
I think there are warm-ups included in those up!up!up! sample sessions. You definitely want to train speed and strength separately.
Exactly. Those are warm-up sprints.
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Old 09-19-17, 09:52 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by brawlo
Every one of those workouts I've done there's a low gear revout at the start and one at the end. Interestingly when I was at my fastest back in Feb, the warmup and cooldown revouts were at the same rpm peak. I hadn't ever achieved that before in the years that I'd been doing the UpUpUp trainer drills
Wow. I am always scrapped after the drills.

I hope you get back that condition very soon!
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Old 09-19-17, 09:53 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by taras0000
So the 58x10 that Bos is riding is ~152.5". For a 12 tooth drive, 69 tooth chainring gets you 151.3" and 70 teeth gets you 153.5"
Ok. I'm out.
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Old 09-19-17, 05:52 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Franklin27
I've read your experience with bigger gears. Which gear you were using for your F200 11.8?
52/12 ~ 117". But worth noting that is using 175mm cranks. Equivalent gear using 165s would be 110". I really like the grinding feel of the bigger gear and lower cadence. I have always had good low end and fairly average top end. That is something I need to work on - pumping out power/torque in the "higher" 110+rpm range
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Old 09-19-17, 05:56 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Franklin27
Ok. I'm out.
Never forget the theory of relativity. While that is a massive gear, we are talking about a guy running sub 10s F200s doing strength work. For the majority of mere mortals in the 12.0-11.0 range, the equivalent gearing would be much much lower, more like in the 120-130" range
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