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Suntour BarCons vs Simplex Retrofriction Bar Ends

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Suntour BarCons vs Simplex Retrofriction Bar Ends

Old 03-16-17, 11:30 AM
  #26  
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Am reading this thread with interest as I just bought a NOS set of Simplex bar ends to go on my Moto Grand Record total French build up. They'll be used with Huret Jubilee front and long-cage rear derailleurs.
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Old 03-16-17, 11:40 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois
If your retrofrictions click, there is something seriously wrong with them.
I'm talking MICRO clicks, there was nothing wrong with them. They were great!
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Old 03-16-17, 12:03 PM
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Retrofrictions do not click. They have a spring clutch. You must have them confused with something else.
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Old 03-16-17, 12:09 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by motogeek
Am reading this thread with interest as I just bought a NOS set of Simplex bar ends to go on my Moto Grand Record total French build up. They'll be used with Huret Jubilee front and long-cage rear derailleurs.

The retrofriction version is very rare. You can tell them from the standard friction bar end shifters by the notch in the back of the lever that holds the end of the spring.

Last edited by Grand Bois; 03-16-17 at 07:58 PM.
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Old 03-16-17, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois
The retrofriction version is very rare. You can tell them from the standard friction bar end shifters by the notch in the back of the lever that holds the end of the spring.
Grand Bois, I sent you an email about your post, but I'm not sure it went through.
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Old 03-16-17, 05:57 PM
  #31  
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Simplex retrofrictions, best paired with suntour cyclone. That's the prime vintage shifter/derailleur combo-- by several miles at least.
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Old 03-16-17, 06:33 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by SuperLJ
Neither one. Here's the ones you want - Shimano Fingertip Control:

VeloBase.com - Component: Shimano L-600 Fingertip Control Barcons

An internal spring perfectly balances the derailleur's spring. Beats SunTour Barcons hands down, IMHO. Every bit as pleasant to use as Simplex Retrofriction.
This marks my once again stepping into the flame wars of bar control preferences (oh yes they have raged hot before this!) but, nope, not buying it:
I have used one pair of these Shimano coil-spring bar controls after i sold off a pair of (useless) Campagnolo bar-end controls and wanted something more stylish than Suntours on a Holdsworth Touring bike.

Color me not impressed. Not anywhere near as nice as Simplex Retrofriction down tube levers, which I have used on several bikes.
Better than the Campys, true, but it's a very low bar, and finally settled on the good old chunky-looking SunTours. I just enjoy their reliable function (ratcheting, yes, and a fine ratchet it is!) if not their elegance.
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Old 03-16-17, 07:23 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by unworthy1
This marks my once again stepping into the flame wars of bar control preferences (oh yes they have raged hot before this!) but, nope, not buying it:
I have used one pair of these Shimano coil-spring bar controls after i sold off a pair of (useless) Campagnolo bar-end controls and wanted something more stylish than Suntours on a Holdsworth Touring bike.

Color me not impressed. Not anywhere near as nice as Simplex Retrofriction down tube levers, which I have used on several bikes.
Better than the Campys, true, but it's a very low bar, and finally settled on the good old chunky-looking SunTours. I just enjoy their reliable function (ratcheting, yes, and a fine ratchet it is!) if not their elegance.
Well, to each his own.

My Bertin has been equipped with Simplex Retrofriction shifters since I bought it new in 1979, so I'm quite familiar with those also. Compared to the Shimano Fingertip Control shifters, I can't say that I prefer one over the other, but it's apples and oranges since the former are down-tubers, and the latter are bar-ends. I've never had the pleasure of using Retrofriction bar-ends, and as rare they are, I'm pretty sure I never will.

I do very much prefer the pleasast light action of Shimanos, with their clock spring, to the ratcheting SunTour Barcons, but that's just me - YRMV.
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Old 03-16-17, 07:48 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by SuperLJ
Well, to each his own.

My Bertin has been equipped with Simplex Retrofriction shifters since I bought it new in 1979, so I'm quite familiar with those also. Compared to the Shimano Fingertip Control shifters, I can't say that I prefer one over the other, but it's apples and oranges since the former are down-tubers, and the latter are bar-ends. I've never had the pleasure of using Retrofriction bar-ends, and as rare they are, I'm pretty sure I never will.

I do very much prefer the pleasast light action of Shimanos, with their clock spring, to the ratcheting SunTour Barcons, but that's just me - YRMV.
I have the Shimano L 600 bar ends on my PX 10 pulling Campagnolo NR and the Suntour ratcheting bar ends on my Miyata 912 pulling Cyclone. I really like both but it is hard to judge what works best because it is not really fair. I mean, the Shimano is pulling NR and the Suntour is pulling Cyclone, so of course the Suntour will be working the best.
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Old 03-16-17, 07:53 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by RosyRambler
Grand Bois, I sent you an email about your post, but I'm not sure it went through.
I don't have an email from you. Try PM?
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Old 03-16-17, 08:00 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by mountaindave
How about the best of both worlds?

I did it first, but I haven't used them. Just tinkering.

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Old 03-16-17, 08:02 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Steve Whitlatch
I have the Shimano L 600 bar ends on my PX 10 pulling Campagnolo NR and the Suntour ratcheting bar ends on my Miyata 912 pulling Cyclone. I really like both but it is hard to judge what works best because it is not really fair. I mean, the Shimano is pulling NR and the Suntour is pulling Cyclone, so of course the Suntour will be working the best.
Nope, not a fair fight at all.
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Old 03-16-17, 08:54 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by mountaindave
How about the best of both worlds?


I'm a total SunTour BarCon fanboy, and can't imagine anything being even better than perfection. But I have a set of pods and a set of downtube Retrofrictions, so it's worth a try. Even though my next build will use the greatest shifter of all time, a classic Sturmey Archer 4 speed trigger.

Was there anything special about the swap, or is it just a simple bolt-on? Does the cable line up with the hole in the pods OK? Does the smaller diameter limit you to 5 or 6 speeds in the rear with modern derailleurs? Or will I have to use it with a DuoPar or similar?

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Old 03-16-17, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois
The retrofriction version is very rare. You can tell them from the standard friction bar end shifters by the notch in the back of the lever that holds the end of the spring.
Ah, the photo. My mistake Grand Bois. What you said above, I thought you were talking about using downtube Simplex retrofriction shifters with a shifter pod to create a bar-end shifter.

I have a set of the Simplex shifters like the ones 'mountaindave' mounted onto the Shimano pods, and was wondering (hoping) I could do the same thing to create bar-end shifters.

I haven't been able to figure out how to add a photo, otherwise I'd post one of what Simplex levers and DT mounting hardware I have.

For the record, are those Simplex shifters (like mountaindave's) with the cut out in the lever the retrofriction type?

And per your photo of bar-end shifters, Simplex made both downtube and bar-end retroflection shifters?
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Old 03-16-17, 09:33 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by SuperLJ
Well, to each his own.

- YRMV.
Yes, this is where we finally end up: to each his own. my holy grail might be somebody else's outhouse.
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Old 03-16-17, 10:00 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by SuperLJ
Well, to each his own.

My Bertin has been equipped with Simplex Retrofriction shifters since I bought it new in 1979, so I'm quite familiar with those also. Compared to the Shimano Fingertip Control shifters, I can't say that I prefer one over the other, but it's apples and oranges since the former are down-tubers, and the latter are bar-ends. I've never had the pleasure of using Retrofriction bar-ends, and as rare they are, I'm pretty sure I never will.

I do very much prefer the pleasast light action of Shimanos, with their clock spring, to the ratcheting SunTour Barcons, but that's just me - YRMV.
Hey SuperLJ, I finally did something with my fingertip control bar ends that have your old covers on them. Was going to put them on my Motobecane grand touring when I rebuild it, but thats pretty far down the road, and I decided that I will probably keep the suntour ratcheting DT shifters it came with, since I like them.

So I put them on my old Trek 560 to replace the blueline DT shifters on it. The inspiration was simply that it would be easier to get my water bottle out without the DT's. Not my sexiest bike, but its my fastest, the one that all my Strava king of the mountains were done on. Got them pulling Cyclone derailleurs. Works great.

I would love to try simplex retros someday, but it will probably never happen. Lucky me, I can sleep on a pile of peas under the mattresses, and use any shifter without to much pain.
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Old 03-17-17, 07:42 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by RosyRambler
For the record, are those Simplex shifters (like mountaindave's) with the cut out in the lever the retrofriction type?

And per your photo of bar-end shifters, Simplex made both downtube and bar-end retroflection shifters?
Yes and yes.
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Old 03-17-17, 02:17 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by RosyRambler
For the record, are those Simplex shifters (like mountaindave's) with the cut out in the lever the retrofriction type?
Mountaindave's shifters are retrofriction, but not all Simplex shifters with the cut-out are retrofriction, e.g. these are standard shifters:



The retrofriction levers can be distinguished by the bulbous base, housing the spring:



And the early production retrofriction levers weren't cut out like the newer, more common ones:

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Old 03-17-17, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois
I did it first, but I haven't used them. Just tinkering.
Send them my way and I'll let you know how they work
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Old 03-17-17, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by MnHPVA Guy
Was there anything special about the swap, or is it just a simple bolt-on? Does the cable line up with the hole in the pods OK? Does the smaller diameter limit you to 5 or 6 speeds in the rear with modern derailleurs? Or will I have to use it with a DuoPar or similar?
Everything matched up nicely, but now that I think about it, I did have to do one thing: file down the tab on the Shimano pod that orients the Shimano lever for proper indexing. The tab isn't required for proper function, it only helps with initial alignment. I could re-mount the Shimano levers and put the bar ends back into indexing use if I so desired (but the levers came to me in a non-functioning state so not an issue for me anyway).

I currently have the bar ends linked through a demultiplicateur to a Cyclone RD (naturally) and am running a 12-21 7s freewheel. There is quite a bit of throw from high to low so I am going to experiment this summer with taking the demultiplicateur out. If I still remember my Physics 101, I should get more pull on the RD and reduce the amount of throw to get the entire range in back. I feel confident that the gear spacing won't make it too sensitive for me to operate.
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Old 03-17-17, 07:51 PM
  #46  
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Unfortunately I took all the rave reviews of Retrofriction shifters to heart and bought a set.

I am now less satisfied with the shifting on all my other bikes, hahaha.
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Old 03-17-17, 09:01 PM
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Yeah, these are the version I have, with the notch in the back of the lever. So are there two different versions of the Simplex bar end shifters? If so, what make one more desireble than the other?




QUOTE=Grand Bois;19446147]The retrofriction version is very rare. You can tell them from the standard friction bar end shifters by the notch in the back of the lever that holds the end of the spring.
[/QUOTE]
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Old 03-17-17, 10:30 PM
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The notches = Retrofriction = money.
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Old 03-18-17, 05:44 AM
  #49  
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The Mavic-branded Retrofrictions on my Vitus are almost too light. Or I really am the ham-fisted brute that my wife often refers to.

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Old 03-18-17, 07:16 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by mountaindave
Everything matched up nicely, but now that I think about it, I did have to do one thing: file down the tab on the Shimano pod that orients the Shimano lever for proper indexing. The tab isn't required for proper function, it only helps with initial alignment. I could re-mount the Shimano levers and put the bar ends back into indexing use if I so desired (but the levers came to me in a non-functioning state so not an issue for me anyway).

I currently have the bar ends linked through a demultiplicateur to a Cyclone RD (naturally) and am running a 12-21 7s freewheel. There is quite a bit of throw from high to low so I am going to experiment this summer with taking the demultiplicateur out. If I still remember my Physics 101, I should get more pull on the RD and reduce the amount of throw to get the entire range in back. I feel confident that the gear spacing won't make it too sensitive for me to operate.
You are correct, the demultiplicator reduces the amount of cable that the shifter pulls. It is used with the bar end shifters because their large diameter barrels make them pull too much cable. the down tube shifters don't have that problem. In fact, many complain that they pull too little. You've just made that problem worse.



Don't be confused by the cable extending downwards. It's a pigtail that I hadn't trimmed yet.


Last edited by Grand Bois; 03-18-17 at 07:36 AM.
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