wasianamerican

I need a claw mount for my Nuovo Record RD and previous posts indicate that Suntour ones are not compatible. Will the Sunrace ones fit? They have a different profile, but do not have the offset that the Campagnolo 80/2 hangers have. Will the sunrace work or only "full campy"? Thanks!

Sunrace

bikemig 

This is good to know. I was getting ready to mount a Campy RD on a claw for a bike I'm fixing up and I didn't realize that this might not work.

oneclick 

If you can't get the real thing pm me, I'll make you one cheap:

C9H13N 

Boulder Bicycle has the Campy part for $11

Vintage Campy rear derailleurs and parts

JohnDThompson 

What's the problem with running an NR derailleur on a SunTour claw? I haven't tried it, but I have run NR units on non-Campagnolo dropouts, including SunTour, Shimano, and Tange without issues.

The geometry of the hangers is quite similar; the only difference I see is that the Campagnolo hanger I happen to have is from a Velox derailleur, and is offset slightly to provide clearance for the Velox derailleur body. It doesn't seem that this offset would be necessary with a NR derailleur, and indeed Campagnolo dropouts with an integral hanger are not offset in this manner.

juvela

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Campag mounting plates or tabs typically exhibit a drop of ~26mm

some asian mounting plates have a drop of ~32mm


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bikemig 

Is a deeper drop a problem? Or does it help the Campy RD handle a larger freewheel?

oneclick 

Well, no[1] dropouts with integral hangers are offset. The offset claw is to bring the derailleur mount to the same[2] plane it would be with a dropout-hanger.

Whether it's necessary depends on multiple other geometrical factors, but it's unlikely to make things worse.

[1] ok, they could exist, but a) I can't see why; and b) I don't know of any
[2] more-or-less

juvela

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BITD before Campag began manufacturing rear gear mechs with the slant pantograph design the asian mechs could get away with the 32mm drop because they kept the jockey pulley in the ideal position and facilitated the capacity of a larger large cog on the gear block

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Narhay

I have run two claw mounted campagnolo (super record, nuovo record) rear derailleurs and they did not fit onto a suntour derailleur hanger. Only the campy one worked. I can't remember which dimension didn't work out.

JohnDThompson 

The limit adjusters should be able to accommodate that, I would think.

Charles Wahl

Having no experience with this problem myself, I'll just spitball:


The SunTour hanger differs from the Campagnolo one in a few ways:
1. No offset. If Campy did the extra work to provide one, maybe there's a reason for that.
2. SunTour's drop appears marginally larger than that of the Campagnolo, but not 23% more.
3. SunTour's stop "seat" is angled differently than Campagnolo's, and appears to be a bit further clockwise too.

repechage

there is 10x26 vs 10 x1 thread difference.

JohnDThompson 

The offset was for the mounting flange on a Valentino/Velox type derailleur. The Gran Sport/Record/Nuovo Record/super Record units do not have this flange, and the offset is superfluous.

A couple minutes with a file would make the SunTour stop the same as the Campagnolo stop, if that were to be a problem.

oneclick 

I don't think that's correct.

First of all, Campagnolo spec'd the offset claw for both the Valentino and the Nuovo Record rear mech (part 80/2).

Second, the type of upper knuckle - L-shaped flange (V/V/V) or barrel (R/NR/SR) has no bearing on whether an offset is appropriate.

Third, the operation of limit screws will have zero influence on the value-to-shifting that an offset claw brings.

What offset does is bring the derailleur to a mounting position that is (closer to) the same as an integral hanger. This gives the mech two advantages when shifting to the largest sprocket:

a) The upper jockey wheel is a little lower - because the parallelogram body at the end of travel has an upward component to its movement, and if you move the mount inward this is reduced; and
b) The derailleur will move to the larger sprockets with less shifter movement - for the same geometrical reason as a) above.

One should also note that other manufacturers (e.g. Simplex, Favorit) also made offset claws for their parallelogram, barrel-knuckled mechs.

JohnDThompson 

No, they didn't. Separate claws were offered for Valentino-type (80/A) and Nuovo Record-type (80/2) models, and the 80/2 lacks offset. From Catalog 17:

repechage

I think the difference is really based on the application.
if being used with a stamped dropout, thinner, say not forged, no adjuster screws, the unit with no offset places the derailleur mount surface as if it was on a forged dropout.
If mounting onto a forged dropout where there is no derailleur tab, the offset moves the mount plane back to baseline.

Four and a half Decades ago I bought a Nuovo Record mechanism where in the box, there was a shift cable, segment of plain stainless steel housing with ends, and an offset claw mounted on the mechanism, no blue cardboard pivot bolt retainer. Campagnolo made alternatives, there are few hard rules.

oneclick 

First off, get a better pair of glasses and look at the picture of 80/2 that you posted.

Catalog 16 shows the NR with the offset claw. You're right, it has a different part number (doesn't affect the geometry). Claw hangers - offset ones - with a hole for the Sport upper spring are 80/3.

It also shows the Sport - another barrel-knuckled mech - with an offset claw.

Cat 17A shows the Nuovo Gran Sport - a barell-knuckled mech - with the offset claw.

Catalogs 14 and 15 show nothing but offset claws - and of course we know the Valentino didn't appear in the catalogs until No. 15, where is has a claw offset in the same way as the Nuovo Record and Nuovo Sport claws.

Earlier catalogs have only line-drawings, and none at an angle where one can tell if the claws are offset.

And of course, the geometry argues for itself.