Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Large,small,what's worth more?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Large,small,what's worth more?

Old 01-22-12, 03:54 PM
  #1  
trek330
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New York City
Posts: 815
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Large,small,what's worth more?

I had a chance to buy a 65 centimeter frame for cheap which I considered to flip.Generally are oversized or undersized frames more valuable or less than a more standard size bike like 52-58?I'm talking bikes from the 80s.
trek330 is offline  
Old 01-22-12, 03:58 PM
  #2  
Harlan
Tyrannosaurus Rexitis
 
Harlan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Posts: 952

Bikes: Scott Addict 6870

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I've found that small frames go much faster than huge ones. Lots of people getting girlfriends and wives into the sport where big guys already have their frames.
Harlan is offline  
Old 01-22-12, 04:10 PM
  #3  
Captain Blight
Senior Member
 
Captain Blight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,473

Bikes: -1973 Motobecane Mirage -197? Velosolex L'Etoile -'71 Raleigh Super Course

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Yeah, usually a 65cm frame is worth just the same as a 58, all else being equal; but the 48cm frame can command about a 20% premium.
Captain Blight is offline  
Old 01-22-12, 04:26 PM
  #4  
ronp6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Newton, MA
Posts: 119

Bikes: Seven Cycles ID8 & steel Axiom; Bridgestones: MB-1, RB-T, XO-1, '85 Orange Gran Velo; electrics: Bionx, Swytch, Eflow Nitro; Merlin early MB; Raleigh Twenty & a lot of comings and goings

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I sold a 62cm this weekend and could have sold 2 more but generally 58 is the biggest I would buy because it is the biggest I can ride. I have usually ended up parting out very large bikes.
ronp6 is offline  
Old 01-22-12, 04:43 PM
  #5  
Right Said Fred
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I've been looking for a smaller lugged steel frame for my wife (48-50cm) and they are scarce. OTOH, I see plenty of frames 60cm and larger.
Right Said Fred is offline  
Old 01-22-12, 04:44 PM
  #6  
wrk101
Thrifty Bill
 
wrk101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mountains of Western NC
Posts: 23,572

Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue X2, 88 Cimarron LE, 1975 Sekai 4000 Professional, 73 Paramount, plus more

Mentioned: 96 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1236 Post(s)
Liked 957 Times in 624 Posts
XS bikes tend to bring 25% to 33% more than regular sizes. XL bikes tend to bring 25% less. Took me a year to sell one, despite offering it at a significant discount. This topic has been discussed many times. In my area, the mini-boom of female tri athletes, looking for a starter bike, and the move on modern bike sizing to put riders on smaller sized bikes, has combined to create quite a boom for small bikes. Add to that demand, the supply of small bikes, particularly vintage ones, is limited, as many manufacturers did not make very small bikes (in the 1970s, some of the Schwinn racing bikes were sized at 22, 24, and 26 inches. So "22" was small.) And the smaller the better. Had a buyer drive four hours one way to pick up an 18 inch Trek racing bike. Most of the smallest vintage Treks were 19 inches.

Whenever I pick up a small/extra small frame racing bike, I move it to the front of the line.

Last edited by wrk101; 01-22-12 at 04:51 PM.
wrk101 is offline  
Old 01-22-12, 05:05 PM
  #7  
Poguemahone
Vello Kombi, baby
 
Poguemahone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Je suis ici
Posts: 5,322

Bikes: 1973 Eisentraut; 1970s Richard Sachs; 1978 Alfio Bonnano; 1967 Peugeot PX10

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times in 13 Posts
I'd say the discount on large frames is even bigger(haha) than bill suggests. I can pretty much immediately sell a small frame at asking price and have to turn away multiple requests. A bigger frame 60 or above will simply sit. To some extent i think prices flatten at the very high end-- those bikes are a harder sell at market, no matter the size.
__________________
"It's always darkest right before it goes completely black"

Waste your money! Buy my comic book!

Last edited by Poguemahone; 01-22-12 at 06:06 PM.
Poguemahone is offline  
Old 01-22-12, 05:50 PM
  #8  
sailorbenjamin
Senior Member
 
sailorbenjamin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Rhode Island (an obscure suburb of Connecticut)
Posts: 5,703

Bikes: one of each

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Bikes over about 60cm are hard to get into a box that doesn't get dinged for "oversized package" fees from UPS or Fedex. It's a pretty steep fee, like $50 or something. That limits the bike's Ebay desirability and Ebay is where the niche market stuff sells. Much harder to find a huge guy on Craigslist.
sailorbenjamin is offline  
Old 01-22-12, 05:53 PM
  #9  
753proguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,092
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I tend to agree with Bill on this. Think about potential buyers - there just aren't (statistically) that many guys looking for a 65 cm. or larger frame, vs. the number of lookers in, say, the 54-62 range. I'm fairly tall, about 95th percentile US male, and I ride a 60-62, depending on the vintage / specific geometry. When I look on eBay, it often seems to me like there are way too many 'XL' frames for sale, and too few 'L' frames. My wife rides a 48-50, and since those are at the very bottom end of the 700c build (size) spectrum, higher-end frames in that size are not very common either. They just didn't make many. Plus, Japan Inc. will often go after the best examples of the small ones, so that drives demand up as well.
753proguy is offline  
Old 01-22-12, 05:56 PM
  #10  
wahoonc
Membership Not Required
 
wahoonc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the road-USA
Posts: 16,855

Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 14 Posts
I need large frames (XL in today's world) I ride 64cm as a rule, I can run just above and just below that size if I have to. I pay whatever the seller is asking in most cases, because they are hard for me to find. I guess it is a case of the right seller getting the right buyer at the right time.

Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"
_Nicodemus

"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"
_krazygluon
wahoonc is offline  
Old 01-22-12, 06:06 PM
  #11  
r0ckh0und 
Senior Member
 
r0ckh0und's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Plano, IL.
Posts: 1,624
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 137 Post(s)
Liked 205 Times in 100 Posts
I don't know about other components but I think the same could be said of cranksets.......165mm seem to be more scarce/desirable/expensive and the 175mm seem to be plentiful and a harder sell.
__________________
Be where your feet are.......Lisa Bluder

r0ckh0und is offline  
Old 01-22-12, 06:14 PM
  #12  
himespau 
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,553
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4199 Post(s)
Liked 2,913 Times in 1,781 Posts
I rarely see anything in the 58-62 cm range here, which is what I'd want. Not that I'm actually looking anyway, though if I found a great deal, I probably wouldn't be able to turn it down.
__________________
Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?), 1990 Concorde Aquila(hit by car while riding), others in build queue "when I get the time"





himespau is offline  
Old 01-22-12, 06:21 PM
  #13  
DCycle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by 753proguy
I tend to agree with Bill on this. Think about potential buyers - there just aren't (statistically) that many guys looking for a 65 cm. or larger frame, vs. the number of lookers in, say, the 54-62 range. I'm fairly tall, about 95th percentile US male, and I ride a 60-62, depending on the vintage / specific geometry. When I look on eBay, it often seems to me like there are way too many 'XL' frames for sale, and too few 'L' frames. My wife rides a 48-50, and since those are at the very bottom end of the 700c build (size) spectrum, higher-end frames in that size are not very common either. They just didn't make many. Plus, Japan Inc. will often go after the best examples of the small ones, so that drives demand up as well.
Statistically, different prices for varying sizes doesn't make sense. Production of bike frames, like everything else, is set to match demand - there are fewer people over 6'4", therefore there should be fewer larger frame sizes available for those folks. Everything equaling out, which it should on a large enough scale, should result in no real statistical difference between bike frame prices based on size. It just doesn't make sense.

However, anecdotal evidence from others on this forum (as well as myself), suggests there really is a price differential - and that may be due to the popularity of female riders on "men's" bikes, and of course demand in places like Japan.
DCycle is offline  
Old 01-22-12, 06:36 PM
  #14  
Poguemahone
Vello Kombi, baby
 
Poguemahone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Je suis ici
Posts: 5,322

Bikes: 1973 Eisentraut; 1970s Richard Sachs; 1978 Alfio Bonnano; 1967 Peugeot PX10

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times in 13 Posts
Originally Posted by DCycle

However, anecdotal evidence from others on this forum (as well as myself), suggests there really is a price differential - and that may be due to the popularity of female riders on "men's" bikes, and of course demand in places like Japan.
Factor in changing notions on bike fit as well. And production of road bikes was largely for men until quite recently, so you've had a sudden increase in the smaller buying population. What made sense for bike manufacturers twenty years back statistically is not the same as what makes sense now.

I'm going to the Westminster swap in a few weeks. If form holds, there will be some good buys on larger framed rides. Which is fine for me. Not so good for the smaller rider.
__________________
"It's always darkest right before it goes completely black"

Waste your money! Buy my comic book!
Poguemahone is offline  
Old 01-22-12, 07:03 PM
  #15  
vincavinz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 127

Bikes: 1984 Club Fuji, 1970 Schwinn Continetal, 90's Roadmaster ATB, 2003 Raliegh C40

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I've also found that smaller bikes command a much higher price than larger ones. I think a lot of it is because in the 80's most women who rode bikes didn't have higher end racing bikes - instead they had heavy 'lightweights' with steel rims and the like. Now, a lot more women are getting into cycling and the demand outreaches the supply (aka the demand 20-30 years ago).
vincavinz is offline  
Old 01-22-12, 07:09 PM
  #16  
zukahn1 
Senior Member
 
zukahn1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Fairplay Co
Posts: 9,582

Bikes: Current 79 Nishiki Custum Sport, Jeunet 620, notable previous bikes P.K. Ripper loop tail, Kawahara Laser Lite, Paramount Track full chrome, Raliegh Internatioanl, Motobecan Super Mirage. 59 Crown royak 3 speed

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 786 Post(s)
Liked 1,706 Times in 620 Posts
I have found that larger and smaller frames appear to get more while not really. Small and large frames tended to come on higher end simi custom bikes and the quality leads to a lot of the higher price. As said above and numerouse times slightly smaller high end nice front diamond triangle basically womens road bikes draw somewhat of a primium.
zukahn1 is offline  
Old 01-22-12, 07:11 PM
  #17  
tmh657
Senior Member
 
tmh657's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,936

Bikes: A few BSO's.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 53 Times in 26 Posts
Originally Posted by DCycle
However, anecdotal evidence from others on this forum (as well as myself), suggests there really is a price differential - and that may be due to the popularity of female riders on "men's" bikes, and of course demand in places like Japan.
+1. I just sold a 1986 50cm Miyata 710 2 days ago. There were a hand full of buyers interested. I don't think I undervalued it because at $25 more than selling price it sat for a week. The 5'3" ladies (or men) are very happy to find a small framed bike at a reasonable price.

That same bike in a 63cm frame could take a couple of weeks to find a buyer at 25% less than the 50cm frame. From my experience anyway.
tmh657 is offline  
Old 01-22-12, 10:09 PM
  #18  
woodrupjoe
Full Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 16 Times in 4 Posts
I bought a 50cm Miyata 710 last year, including a nice indoor trainer, on Craigslist for very little $ after it had sat for weeks. I went to see it and told the owner that it was too small for me and wished her well and that if she got desperate to dump it I would take it off her hands. She was moving to Europe and she finally called and told me to come get it (and the trainer). I don't think she rode it outside very much, for a 1985 bike it looked like it had seen about a year of light riding- no rust, no wear, original rubber. So I found the perfect donor bike, I guess. Really nice components, wheels, etc., and with hardly any mileage on any of it. I'm still scouting the perfect frame to make the switch.
I'm not sure what that adds to the discussion, but that's my experience. Smaller frames seem to carry fewer miles.
woodrupjoe is offline  
Old 01-23-12, 12:23 AM
  #19  
753proguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,092
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by r0ckh0und
I don't know about other components but I think the same could be said of cranksets.......165mm seem to be more scarce/desirable/expensive and the 175mm seem to be plentiful and a harder sell.
Um, good vintage 175s (non-ATB ones, anyways) are scarce and pricey, especially the older they get. 170s fall from the sky every day, like rain, it seems. Sell me all of your mint vintage 175 mm road cranksets!
753proguy is offline  
Old 01-23-12, 12:25 AM
  #20  
753proguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,092
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by DCycle
Statistically, different prices for varying sizes doesn't make sense. Production of bike frames, like everything else, is set to match demand - there are fewer people over 6'4", therefore there should be fewer larger frame sizes available for those folks. Everything equaling out, which it should on a large enough scale, should result in no real statistical difference between bike frame prices based on size. It just doesn't make sense.

However, anecdotal evidence from others on this forum (as well as myself), suggests there really is a price differential - and that may be due to the popularity of female riders on "men's" bikes, and of course demand in places like Japan.
Um, that's assuming that manufacturers were / are 100% perfect in guessing demand. They weren't / aren't.
753proguy is offline  
Old 01-23-12, 01:28 AM
  #21  
rothenfield1
Senior Member
 
rothenfield1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montereyish
Posts: 2,329
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
It’s a demographic question of average height you ask. I think for craigslist purposes, 54cm frames are probably the center point. Very small and very large frames get an extra value point because of the smaller market group. However, If you’re a flipper trying to pay your rent, I’d concentrate on 54cm or lower frame sizes. If you’re trying to maximize profit margin, go big and have patience.
rothenfield1 is offline  
Old 01-23-12, 01:49 AM
  #22  
degan
Senior Member
 
degan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 919
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 120 Post(s)
Liked 102 Times in 54 Posts
Originally Posted by r0ckh0und
I don't know about other components but I think the same could be said of cranksets.......165mm seem to be more scarce/desirable/expensive and the 175mm seem to be plentiful and a harder sell.
Thats interesting. The vast majority of cranks I've stopped to check the size of have been 170.
degan is offline  
Old 01-23-12, 03:26 AM
  #23  
zukahn1 
Senior Member
 
zukahn1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Fairplay Co
Posts: 9,582

Bikes: Current 79 Nishiki Custum Sport, Jeunet 620, notable previous bikes P.K. Ripper loop tail, Kawahara Laser Lite, Paramount Track full chrome, Raliegh Internatioanl, Motobecan Super Mirage. 59 Crown royak 3 speed

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 786 Post(s)
Liked 1,706 Times in 620 Posts
Originally Posted by degan
Thats interesting. The vast majority of cranks I've stopped to check the size of have been 170.

This is just a fact nicer vintage cranks in the 170 size are common because it was the the industrie standard size for for most road bikes from the 30's to the 80's
zukahn1 is offline  
Old 01-23-12, 07:46 AM
  #24  
wrk101
Thrifty Bill
 
wrk101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mountains of Western NC
Posts: 23,572

Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue X2, 88 Cimarron LE, 1975 Sekai 4000 Professional, 73 Paramount, plus more

Mentioned: 96 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1236 Post(s)
Liked 957 Times in 624 Posts
Originally Posted by rothenfield1
It’s a demographic question of average height you ask. I think for craigslist purposes, 54cm frames are probably the center point. Very small and very large frames get an extra value point because of the smaller market group. However, If you’re a flipper trying to pay your rent, I’d concentrate on 54cm or lower frame sizes. If you’re trying to maximize profit margin, go big and have patience.
For me, I usually find bikes from 54cm (21 inch) to 61cm (24 inch). Anything smaller than 54 is a blessing. Anything above 61cm is a struggle. Note, if you have something special, then size is less important.
wrk101 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
PaulyShore
Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
12
03-14-16 06:02 PM
puchfinnland
Classic & Vintage
29
10-28-12 05:24 PM
radiocontrolhea
Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
13
02-27-12 10:19 PM
Scopes
Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
10
11-15-10 06:43 PM
spcialzdspksman
Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
5
12-13-09 07:58 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.