DevidSAM365

Me personally I think there need to be some restrictions. If there are no restrictions at all, people will start behaving like crazy. Which will be detrimental to everyone.
28 miles per hour is not a bad speed but it is a very high speed for many people, especially for those people who are not completely healthy and need to exercise.
You will notice that some stupid people ride e-bikes at high speeds in family parks which can lead to accidents, Even sometimes it happens. Think about these, what those people can do if there are no restrictions.

late

You don't see motorcycles in urban parks or on walking paths. They can go 3 or 4 times as fast as the 28 mph limit of a Class 3...

We are going to have millions on ebikes, we're gonna need regs to manage them. People like to think of bicycles (and thus ebikes) as toys. They are transportation, and need to be regulated (and possibly licensed) as such.

Restrictions were fine in the beginning, but as ebikes get more popular, their shortcomings are starting to chafe..

willibrord

If they are going to go that fast they shouldn't be on MUPs, parks etc.
They should be allowed only on roads and be licensed and ensured.

a big hazard.

kahn

NON Electric bikes can exceed those speeds right now. I don't think it is the speed as much as the mass/weight that presents some of the danger. Some trails around here already restrict the speed but using signs. Of course, those limits are ignored by some riders. But there's also a trail around here that restricts e-bikes to Class 1 and 2. I'm not sure how much safety that restriction provides. My Creo weighs substantially less than some of those massive "motorcycle" e-bikes and I don't think the restriction in that case makes sense. Of course, making the restriction built-in does limit the potential injury.

2old

IMO, the Class system (basically 20 mph on bike paths and in parks and 28 mph, PAS on streets) is fine. However a system for training new riders would be welcome, but infeasible since it allows the government to get its sticky hands involved and cause another moped-like fiasco.

OldRailfan

People are not prevented from acting crazy even if there are restrictions. OTOH it seems common sense is in very short supply!

Sempervee

Two things that will never be regulated. Common sense and morality.

MNebiker

What size hazard would you have if you put all the go-fast ebikes and the the inexperienced casual ebike riders out on the road with traffic?

MNebiker

Not a rant - just some random observations from a old dude who has been riding an ebike for several years:

3 years ago I had a conversation with the person in charge of the local park district MUP trails when they were doing on-site surveys of trail users. In the course of our talk he mentioned that the biggest concern and complaint from all users was "high speed bikers." Granted, the term "High speed" is somewhat ambiguous, as 15mph can seem pretty fast to a slow walker when suddenly passed by a bike. But in many ways I had to agree with him. I probably ride trails at about 14 - 16mph most of the time - a speed that seems pretty safe on busy trails with joggers, walkers, dog walkers, family groups and the inevitable phone zombies. (Not a complaint - if you ride the trails you either deal with this stuff or go home.) If the trail is clear I'll pick up the pace and let it roll on the long downhills.

In the 10 years or on the local trails I have only encountered two serious "fast ebike" situations. One was an overpowered "home brew" beast that was scary fast - the builder claimed 40+mph! The other was a couple just riding too fast in traffic, trying to pass on blind curves. She almost took out 4 bikes. These incidents are bound to increase as the ebike numbers steadily rise.

But high speed and foolishness is not exclusive to ebikes: I regularly encounter the TDF wannabees (male and female) that think the trail is their own private raceway. Note that those survey comments came back when there were very few ebikes on the trails. (By mentioning this I will probably incur the wrath of many of these dudes.)

E-bikes have an appeal to two groups: The go-fast crowd, and those who need the assist, either due to some physical impairment, aging - or maybe laziness? The speed available on an e-bike is a danger to both. The go-fasts tend to be reckless, the others may be riding beyond their capabilities.

Rules, restrictions, regulations, limits - all have their place, but without enforcement they mean nothing. Ebikes that exceed most limits are readily available, and you can build your own monster bike. YouTube has videos showing how to defeat the speed limiter on factory bikes. My own ebike meets MN state regs and is totally legal - but I could disable the speed limiter by changing one computer setting.

Today's news headlines include a guy in Vegas who drove his Corvette 140mph while over the legal DUI limit and killed a young woman in a crash. Yet the car was legal, registered, and probably insured. Speed limits were in place. Do we now ban Corvettes to cure the problem?

Like most areas of life - the problem is not the object, it is the operator. That is far, far tougher to fix.

OldRailfan

Same size of hazard that we have now with inexperienced and fast people on conventional bikes. If they tangle with the rest of street traffic they come out second best.
BTW on my "Mud Adder" I have five levels of pedal assist and a nine gear cluster. Using PA 4 and gear eight on the flat gives me a nice 28 km/h when pedaling at 84 RPM on the rail-trail and a bit faster on pavement . Not to mention gear nine and PA 5.
What surprises me is the fact that many of the slower riders don't have mirrors to check what's coming up from behind and quite often seem to be day dreaming while taking up however much of the trail as they desire.

willibrord

People speed all the time, does that mean there should be no speed limits?

20 mph is way too fast for MUPs and winding single rack trails. It is slow on the street.

Put ebikes on the streets, license and ensure them.

Ed Wiser

I would limit the speed due to the rider them selves. Those buying ebikes. Many don’t have the handling skills of someone who has ridden a bike for years. Many have not road a bike in 40 years since a child. The bike can get a way from someone who doesn’t no how to handle a sharp turns and riding around other users.

gpburdell

With a 15mph speed limit on a MUP, as seems fairly common around here, why would you need anything specific to ebikes?

A 200lb rider hitting someone at 20mph isn't going to be much different whether they're on a 30lb conventional bike or a 55lb ebike.

In either case - speed limit on all bikes or limits specific to ebikes - enforcement is a whole other matter when law enforcement resources already tend to be somewhat thin.

willibrord

MUPs and forest paths should be restricted to pedal bikes with a 15mph speed limit.
On street bike lanes are good for pedal ebikers with a max speed of 20mph. Must be helmeted and insured.
Wilderness trails restricted to pedal bikes, not ebikes as power not allowed in Wilderness. (Smoke jumpers cant even use chainsaws!)

prairiepedaler

There are already greater than 2 million laws on the books in the USA. Every law written means someones' Liberty is limited further.

No speed laws for bikes. Electric or otherwise.

Any accidents caused, whether travelling 0.5 miles per hour, or 30, should be the responsibility of the person who caused the damage(s) and decided between the two parties if possible without a chance for the state to get a cut out of the transaction.

Capital punishment laws exist in some states. Yet, people still commit these crimes in those states.

Start eliminating all laws where there is no damage to person or property. Our own Government up here recommended for cdn citizens to NOT drive through certain states. Why? There were (and are) roving bands of armed thieves carjacking travellers at random. They are called state troopers. And their excuse for looting is called asset forfeiture. They will not give up that gravy train without being forced to. It'll be the same thing for bikes with more bike laws. It means more $$$ for civil servants, nothing more.

It is a $600 fine for using your cellphone while driving up here. Yet, people still do it. As a cyclist I see it every single ride if I look. Massive, massive money to be made. That is why that law was written. Safety is the cover excuse.

willibrord

Civil disputes between parties should be trial by ordeal.

billridesbikes

How would you even enforce it?
Motorcycle cop on the MUP?
"Excuse me sir, but this looks like an unlicensed e-bike please submit to a search. Sorry, but we'll have to confiscate this Pinarello F12 as part of our...er.... 'investigation' since some parts appear to be electronically controlled!"

Actually, how it will play out in real life is young people of color riding bikes will be stopped, harassed, and ticketed by the police on suspicions of riding an e-bike unregistered or too fast, whatever. But it will be unenforced in other areas of town.

So, no, we don't need more regulation on bicycles, ebike or otherwise.

late

Bicycle cops, I am surprised, wherever you are, that you don't already have them.

There are going to be a lot of people on ebikes, they will have to regulated.

linberl

Not all e-bikes are the same. Some people have 15mph limits, some 20 mph. Some ride 40-50lb bikes and some ride <30lb ebikes. Until riding on the street has safe infrastructure to protect cyclists from cars there is more danger to life than riding on MUPs with pedestrians.
I don't think ebikes need to be or should be relegated to street use only. I do think, however that 20mph should be the top speed and it should be enforced. I sometimes see motorcycle looking ebikes going much faster on my local pathway and I think that's dangerous. It's just
a small % of riders, and a small % of e-bike riders, so making laws that imperil all ebike riders to regulate the few outliers makes no sense. Just ticket the few speeders, big fat tickets.

cat0020

Regardless of regulations, there will always be riders who ride their bikes (or ebikes) faster than it is meant to be operated, same with cars.
The manufacturers are required comply to regulations set by government, for liability to avoid getting sued by private owners.
But individuals can always modify or build their own ebikes that perform beyond the regulations.
In NYC, the delivery people on ebikes often modify their ebikes for 25-30 mph capability with throttle only operation,
PAS can probably go higher but traffic pattern & road surface condition likely don't allow sustained high speed operation for long period of time.
Until such time when registration, insurance & licensing are required to operate an ebike on public roads, enjoy it while you can.

billridesbikes

[QUOTE=late;22299094]Bicycle cops, I am surprised, wherever you are, that you don't already have them.

They ride mountain bikes with some tactical kit and mostly patrol downtown and the park. Probably not going to catch any e-bikes going 28mph.

Did you think this through? Do you really want LE on E-bikes engaging in high speed pursuit of a few speeders on E-bikes on a crowded MUP?
It's a dumb idea.

MarcusT

I have a hard time understanding the opinion of "speed limits are useless because people will break them all the time"

OldRailfan

Speed limits only work if there's proper enforcement with "juicy" fines.

late

[QUOTE=billridesbikes;22299643]

If you want people to obey the law, you need enforcement. Eventually we are going to do what Europe is doing, and that means millions of ebikes. They are in a massive bike boom, and in some countries half the bikes sold are ebikes.

The police will have to develop procedures, like calling it in and having people waiting for the speeder..

Just like they do now.

willibrord

[QUOTE=billridesbikes;22299643]I have seen it done on MUPs with non electric bike speeders. One cop has a radar gun and a radio a few hundred feet on is the ticketing unit. The first cop calls it out to the ticketing cop and they stop the speeder and cite them.
Its usually in a spot where there are no places to get away. No high speed chase necessary.