CAT7RDR

I was side swiped last year on a canyon road with no shoulder. I was not wearing any earbuds/headphones and in retrospect did not heed the warning sound of an approaching car and hug the inside of the white line. I was only bruised on my left hip and stayed upright. She was likely texting and of course lied about her driving as expected.

I take this lesson into account; I want to be vitally aware of my surroundings and act accordingly. On several occasions, I have been passed within a foot by vehicles where I heard them and moved over another foot closer to the side of the road. Whether the drivers were trying to scare me or were distracted I do not know. What I do know is hearing them in advance and moving over likely has spared me some rear end collisions.

If your hearing is so acute that music will not hinder you - great! For me, I will not take that chance.

DrIsotope

Sir, this thread is not the place for reasoned responses. Your post does not contain sufficient quantities of yelling or hyperbole.

Oneder

To get to my bike trail I have to go along what's basically a superhighway in disguise and people drive 65-75 and it's as busy and dangerous as can be. Even with 100 cars coming, I can STILL instantly hear the one coming, slowing down and getting ready to turn. Every single time. The sound is unmistakable and lasts plenty of time to give warning while the cars whizzing by come and go in a second or less.

I have good ears and probably could still hear it wearing earbuds at the levels I like to listen but I KNOW that's not the case for 90% of idiots on the street because they complain every day when I call out I am passing I should get a horn. Over and over every single day. If you don't want to be surprised stop fikkin blaring music in your ears while taking up the whole trail, otherwise it's no one's fault but your own. Startling to pedestrians on trails and sidewalks but likely lethal for people on bikes. But then I guess it's darwin in action

GlennR

Yes, one that affects others.

If someone is passing and you don't hear them and collided, YOUR choice jut impacted another person.

And what if YOUR choice leads to a collision with a car. Will your dying breath be "Sorry, it was MY choice and I accept full responsibility".I'm sure the driver will feel better.

Unless you're guaranteed to be by yourself, what you do can impact others. Just like wearing a face mask when going into a supermarket.

pcook489

Totally agree. Listen to your music/Podcast, but be a safe rider/predictable to traffic.

Hypno Toad

Why are you so binary?

It's my choice to listen to music responsibly. The biggest risk of a collision with a person passing is that they fail to announce the pass.

But you should know that nobody ever passes me ...

GlennR

Yes if you can do it responsible sure... just take responsibility for your actions because your choice can have an impact on others.

Hypno Toad

My history speaks for my responsibility ... decades of riding 1,000s of miles every year, every season - on roads, trails, MUPs - not one collision.

But feel free to continue to infer that there is no safe way to ride with music.

GlennR

Good for you, what about the person i saw collide who was listening to music?

Don't infer that there's no risk.

Plenty of people use their cell phones, not hands free, and never have a collision. But plenty do.

MattTheHat 

This is precisely my view.

I understand the fear. Until about a year ago I thought riding with ear buds was obviously unsafe. Until I read a thread much like this one and I started analyzing how I rode. I quickly came to the conclusion that knowing a car is behind me doesn't make me *do* anything differently. And I was sick of hearing 60-70 hours of wind noise every month. So I tried riding with a Bluetooth earbud setup and really enjoyed it. Had I felt unsafe doing so, I would not have continued. So for folks who feel unsafe riding with them...don't wear them!

Hypno Toad

Yep, you found someone that wasirresponsible, and sounds like you failed to use defensive riding skills.

I didn't infer there's no risk, I said you can listen to music responsibly.

I feel like you got into the wrong thread ... I think this is what you were looking for:

GlennR

I guess this is your attitude...

pcook489

Maybe the person wasn't listening to music. Maybe they were listening to a podcast about the dangers of crossing the road without a helmet and reflective vest?

Jim from Boston

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstateglfr

Because me knowing a car is behind me won't keep me any safer.
I would ride in a straight line if I knew the car is there and I would ride in a straight line if I didn't know the car was there.

My actions won't change, so the result won't change. The only way knowing a car is behind me makes me safer is if i literally exist the road each time, which is dumb and against the point of cycling in the road

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattTheHat

This is exactly what I’ve been trying to communicate, thank you!. Unless you watch the car somehow, you don’t know if it’s going to hit you, you don’t know if the driver is impaired, you don’t know if the driver is distracted, you don’t know if the driver is wearing a hat (and therefore poses untold additional danger).

The part about somehow watching the car...as has been mentioned by Jim from Boston , a mirror can be used. I don’t personally feel I could tell if a car was on a path that would hit me in a small rear view mirror, but maybe I’m wrong. So let me ask, if you use a rear view mirror and a car is on a trajectory that will strike you, how far back can you tell this? In feet or meters.

If we could have a couple of answers to that question, I believe I can make an argument that considering the difference in speed between the bike and the car, there won’t be enough time to react. I could be wrong, but I’d like to do the math.

In other words, it seems to me that even if you don’t take your eyes off the approaching car, by the time you reasonably believe it’s going to strike you, there won’t be enough time to remove yourself from the car’s path. Am I wrong?

This is why I run a rear blinky light and hope for the best. I think I will pick up a radar rear blinky like, but that’s because it will help eliminate surprise close passes by those Ninja-like electric cars

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbass

I think when the information is processed that there's a car looming, your brain likely has some automatic reactions, for example, you consider an exit strategy if things go south. Can I bail into those bushes, etc?]

It's not even necessarily a conscious thing, or perhaps more accurately, it's a fleeting, fluid conscious thing (unless someone is bearing down on you aggressively and you have to make a decision, but that's a different matter).

I know when I'm riding my mind goes through a range from being really focused, to my mind drifting a bit--I think we all do. Knowing there's a car can snap back the focus.

For me in such a situation a rear view mirror allows for nearly simultaneous assessment of the car behind and the road ahead in order to plan, with a decision in mind if the situation warrants an escape.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston

… IMO, besides routine monitoring rearwards with the mirror, a most important use is to make quick decisions when encountering an obstacle in front of you, such as a car door, pothole, car entering your path, etc. can you immediately veer left?...

Personally, i use an eyeglass mounted take-a-look mirror that allows me to maintain a forward-looking head position with just a sideward glance to see the rear.

i really don’t want to turn my head for an over shoulder glance away from the line of travel when speeding downhill on a pothole-strewn road with heavy traffic to my left and parked cars to my right. Furthermore, wind noise can sometimes obscure the sound of a passing car.

I find mirrors so easy to use, and so helpful that i wear both right and left

↓↓↓↓

Jim from Boston

ɅɅɅɅ

tomato coupe

Please stop ...

MattTheHat 

So, how far away is the car by the time you can tell it's going to strike you? This is a serious question, as I've never used a mirror on a bicycle. I've used larger mirrors on motorcycles and for me, I wouldn't be able to tell until the other vehicle was literally feet away.

DrIsotope

Cycling is a risk. Driving a car is a risk. Stepping out of the bathtub is a risk. Human existence is calculating risk. Your entire argument is based on the notion that blocking out any portion of a rider's hearing makes their already risky pursuit more risky. You have no data to support this, and continue to present baseless opinion as concrete fact.

Listening to anything while riding a bicycle does not in and of itself make the pursuit more dangerous. It is the rider's responsibility to maintain situational awareness-- which, and I know this make come as a shock to you-- can be done with earbuds in. Because I am a human and not a cat. I cannot aim my ears toward the source of a sound and accurately determine it's vector and velocity. If I could, I would be snatching hummingbirds out of the air, just like our cat regularly does. Nope, I'm a normal person, who receives about 80% of data from my eyes, and is equipped with a brain tuned to decipher the images brought in by those eyes.

The person you saw involved in a collision arrived at their situation through inattentiveness, incompetence, or a combination of the two. The earbuds notwithstanding, if you decide to just haphazardly make a turn through/into traffic without looking, there's a fair chance something is going to be there to meet you in the middle. Wearing earbuds doesn't make you a poor cyclist. Being inattentive makes you a poor cyclist.

Headphones in, 900+ hours a year. If you want some fuel to holler about occupational safety, you should hear the audio system in my workshop. It has to be screamingly loud to be heard over all of the screamingly loud machines, all of which could take a finger off in an instant. But you see-- I am neither inattentive nor incompetent. I know what I'm doing, and I know how to do it properly. I live every day by safety third. And wouldn't you know it? It's working out just fine, same as it has been for decades.

Oh, and lest I forget, LSOTR (last song of the ride) : Falling Away From Me -- Korn

indyfabz

He needs the attention. Dione Warwick sang “Walk on by.” I scroll on by.

tomato coupe

Too much scrolling -- it's giving me carpal tunnel syndrome.

GlennR

OK.. .you convinced me. I'm gonna ride with ear buds because it's safe.

GlennR

I just finished 30 mile ride and on the way home I decided to take a 1 mile segment of the local MUP. I stopped at a bench to take a brake and did an unscientific study. The bench is about 8 feet from the path and when a walker approached (slower than a cyclist so no wind noise) I called out "can i ask you a question". I did this at 30', 20' and 10'. At 10' they did hear something but I asked how many times I called and all said once. So at 10' they can hear something.

So at 7mph there's 1 second from when they hear "something" till I pass. At 15mph, i'd say an average speed for a cyclist, for a 1 second reaction they would have to hear "something" at 22'... which none did.

Now all had both ears with earbuds so I don't know what the results would be with only one earbud.

So now risk... it all depends on the situation. If you're on a deserted stretch of road then sure, blast away. If you're on a road and there are only cars.. .sure blast away, you're only risking yourself. If you're on a MUP with others and you're faster than everyone and no one will pass... blast away. But as we all know there's always some one faster. Just today i was passed, doing 22mph, buy an e-bike. He called out and I moved tot he right to let him pass.

Risk that you're willing to accept is fine if it doesn't impact others.
Smoking is a risk, but could impacts others
Using a cell phone while driving is a risk, but could impact others
Going into a grocery store without a mask is a risk, but could impacts others
Riding on a crowded path listening to music is a risk, but could impact others.

Riding when listening to music when there's no one else around... sure, go ahead.

GlennR

Sure.

tomato coupe

I didn't write that.

Jim from Boston

I have persistently linked to this video as a definitive (vicarious) example of an ultimate collision: On that thread (link) with the explicit video was discussion about the condition of the apparently inhospitable shoulder that might have discouraged the cyclist from swerving.

If the condition of the escape route was taken into consideration early, and as the upcoming car was visualized the cyclist might have just pulled off the road to avoid the collision. A mirror allows for such simultaneous assessments of the forward and aft situations.