rideandgoseek 

Thanks in advance for looking!

I've got a 75/76 Gios Torino with a 68mm bb shell and my bottom bracket is shot. Need something that will work to replace it. Not necessarily Campy but something that is 68mm with a 112-115.5 spindle, Italian threaded 36x24F, square tapered.

Let me know if anyone has anything. I'm struggling. Velo Orange doesn't have what I need and Phil Wood is out of stock.

Much appreciated!

RAGS

verktyg 

Early 70's Sugino Mighty BBs were completely interchangeable with "simplified" Campy BBS From the era.

Sugino Italian Cups CHEAP on eBay!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15331974404...wAAOSw0~pcJbLa

Campy in their ultimate wisdom started continuously changing things... TOO MANY product "updates" = POOR DESIGN AND TESTING!!!

Find stuff that has the same dimensions as your current BB and go with that. Otherwise you can be chasing your tail to get a working match.

verktyg

jdawginsc 

Is it the cups that are shot or the spindle or both? Pitted?

Charles Wahl

As Chas (verktyg) said, Suginos are your cups, and if your BB shell is indeed 68 mm (which is not standard Italian), then you should try to find a French/English spindle, with a slightly narrower "bearing to bearing" width. I have both in the house, I think, but haven't thought about what they're worth to me.

rideandgoseek 

Thanks for the replies thus far...

So long story short, I don't know what is shot on this bottom bracket. There is a significant grinding noise and you can literally feel vibrations through the bottom bracket as you ride, especially if you are putting out lots of power. My buddy/mechanic has gone through the bottom bracket trying basically everything he could think of. They've been regreased several different times, the plastic sleeve was pulled out and repositioned, it's been taken apart and put back together 3 different times and nothing has stopped the grinding noise. So not sure if it's the cups, spindle, bearings, ect.

It's worth noting that since the noise began we swapped out the chain, rear derailleur, and freewheel (all this scheduled maintenance was previously planned) and the noise did not subside so we know it's not any of those components. I should also mention that the bike was just painted and we thought that some paint chips may have been in the grease/bearings. While there was a few super small flakes of paint, my buddy repacked the bearings and it didn't help either.

At this point we've just decided a new bottom bracket is the way to go but definitely open to theories and possible solutions. We're just kinda at a loss.

The BB shell is indeed a 68mm. We've put the calipers on it a few times to make sure cause like you mention Charles, it was our understanding that 70 was more the norm.

malcala622

If the BB is 68mm you'll need an English spindle and cups.

My '80 Gios Super Record takes a 68mm BB

pace551 

I'm the beleaguered 'mechanic' attempting to get said Gios back on the road.


The bottom bracket previously installed in the bike is a vintage Campy Record Italian 36x24F with a 70mm spindle. When disassembling the bike for painting, I noted the left side cup sitting a few millimeters proud of the lock ring, so of course I put the calipers on the shell and was surprised to find it measuring 68mm. My own late-70s Gios with the newer style BB shell measures at 70mm, so I assume this was some early '70s Gios nuance (this bike has the early style 'GT' BB cutout). The shell is certainly threaded for Italian so obviously left-hand threaded British cup won't fit. The bearings currently installed are the campy 1/4 bearings with cages.


The cups and spindle are visually ok, but as noted the BB shell creaks under load. It seems slightly better with increased cup preload but the noise isn't eliminated entirely. In the absence of any 68mm Italian threaded BB options I'm leaning toward picking up some NOS 1/4 bearings off fleabay.


Incidentally, we had tried replacing the 70-ss-120 spindle with a 68-ss-120 spindle and found that the center section on that 68 spindle is actually longer by several millimeters - pushing the bearings outboard. I then read something about thin cups vs thick cups (?) which was news to me.

jeirvine 

Maybe just add a 1mm spacer to each cup?

pace551 

Yeah that's really not a bad idea to open us up to 70mm BB options.

jdawginsc 

That’s weird...is the grind or vibration on one side or both under load on the down stroke?

Charles Wahl

If there's really a grinding, then you would expect to see evidence of that as wear damage or pitting of the races. Is that the case? i.e. did you remove all the grease from cups and spindle and inspect them closely? Did you replace the bearing balls? I always throw away caged bearing balls and use loose. You aren't, by any chance, using one too many balls in the races, are you? Or the wrong size balls for one of those weird Campy iterations that used 7/32 or 3/16 balls?


If there's no damage or pitting on spindle or cup races, then it must be a "mismatch" problem involving thick-thin or 70-68. My guess is that the 68-SS spindle tried was one for thin cups, and you maybe have thick ones?
If you decide that the cups and/or spindle are indeed "shot", then you might consider something like an IRD cartridge bearing -- IRD does sell alloy "cups" for those in French, Swiss and Italian threading.

krakhaus 

This would be my first guess. Also using 68mm cups and a 70mm spindle probably isn't helping your issue either.
Why don't you just order a 68 / 112-115 cartridge off ebay? You can get them for like $20
Edit: I just realized you did confirm the Italian threading. You LBS and local hardware store would most likely have the 1/4 bearings. I bought some for a friend's bike at ACE in the hardware department.

JohnDThompson 

Between "thick" and "thin" cups, pre- and post-CPSC changes, Campagnolo bottom brackets of that era were a hot mess. Campagnolo USA published an article to try to make sense of it:

jeirvine 

I know this is a WTB thread, but some pics of the BB might help narrow down the issue. Could be someone over-faced the BB shell (down to 68), then tried to make up for it by using a C-Record English spindle, which would expect 3/16" balls. Here's my own Campy BB cheat sheet:
NR/SR-
Italian:
Double -Pre CPSC ('78): 113mm. Post: 115.5
Triple - Pre: 118. Post: 124

English:
Double - Pre: 112. Post: 114.5
Triple - Pre:117. Post: 123

Late-80s-90s markings:
Spc -- ≻ C-record
Ssa -- ≻ Croce d'aune
Ssb -- ≻ Chorus
Ssg -- ≻ Athena

bikemig 

Thanks for attaching that. That is a very useful pdf.

pace551 

Just catching up. Some great information here - much appreciated. Thanks for that PDF!

So the spindle that was fitted is the 113mm pre-CPSC Nuovo Record with the 51mm center section. I also arrived at the same conclusion as jeirvine that at some point the BB shell was faced down to 68mm. With a 70mm BB being fitted, this would obviously have shifted the chainline inboard.

The bearings in use are the 1/4" caged 11 ball assembly.

So the current plan is to fit a pair of 1mm spacers and I also now have another NR bottom bracket on hand - one with the longer CPSC spindle (115.5). So in addition to trying a different BB I have some options to play with the chainline and see if that is a contributing factor to the felt/heard grinding. Will report back in a couple of days once the spacers arrive.

Thanks all!

Dovetube

Rear hub, or freewheel bearings- mess with thin-walled and thick cups?

ThermionicScott 

I know this is a WTB thread that had gone dormant, but any chance the chainring is worn and not meshing well with the chain, and that's why there is a rumble?

bikingshearer 

Did you ever find a solution?

And FWIW, the two-spacers idea to get everything back to 70mm sounds like a good idea, but I don't see why you would need a spacer for the adjustable cup. I would think you would just set the adjustable cup an extra mm outboard and tighten the lockring. Or am I missing something?

And in case you haven't already, buy your mechanic friend at least a beer, and maybe a pizza.

sd5782 

We’ve also recently seen instances of those 11 ball caged bearings being assembled incorrectly.

pace551 

We ended up using another 70mm vintage Campy bottom bracket with 1mm spacers to correct the chain line. The creaking noise was reduced but still present, however after a couple of rides RAGS noted that it completely went away. I think we decided it was coming from the rear-end, related to the chain-line, and resolved itself once everything bedded in together (chain, freewheel, etc.)

Just one of those odd issues that gets resolved in a roundabout way and you never conclusively determine the root cause.