Danhedonia

Hopefully this won't devolve into an "Ah don' lahk 'em! (spit)" exercise. I'm sincerely curious about the appeal of eBikes. My current (mis)understanding within the context of my own preferences:

1. Usually I ride a bike for two reasons: health, and novel travel. A motor would contradict the health part, but might help me see places / go places I normally don't go on a bike.

2. I'm afraid as a typical American, if I need to 'get somewhere faster,' it's the automobile for me. However, I deliberately live in a very non-congested place. Maybe if I needed to go a couple miles to the store and didn't want to get sweaty, it would be perfect?

3. I have seen what I perceive to be a disproportionately high number of e-Bike riders on our local MUP (where they're not permitted, and yes we have bike lanes all over town where they ARE permitted). Many of these riders don't observe basic posted rules, for example they ride two-abreast, forcing others to the side of the path, while going 22-25 mph or faster. Do e-Bikes attract a 'different' type of rider? (I think this is about inexperience?)

4. The school where I teach (when not quarantined) did not permit faculty to use the showers in the gym; even in the 'gym teachers shower area.' We are on top of a hill with a CAT-3 climb to it, and I don't feel like sweating through first period. I could see how letting an e-Bike do the climb would be an elegant solution to the problem.

What do you like about e-Bikes? What are some of their great uses? How are they fun in ways that you can't achieve on a muffin-powered (traditional) bike?

Sincerely curious.

Phil_gretz

"Ah don' lahk 'em! (spit)"

Sorry. On a serious note, I've built two lower-end eBikes for acquaintances during this COVID thing. Each was pretty fun to test drive, but I question the longevity of simple things like connectors, batteries, control switches and the like. The bikes themselves were of below-average quality (from my bicycle standards). So, all I can contribute is that the assist was a nice feature, as was full throttle control (kind of like a lightly powered scooter). Maybe look at lightest weight, more expensive ones?

Riveting

I'm a self-proclaimed hardcore road cyclist of 4-9k miles per year, who ALSO owns a ~300watt Class 2 ebike (the motor wheel has a top speed of 20 mph, so it's legal on all multi-use paths in the Denver metro area). My specific reasons for riding the ebike are to make my 28 mile round-trip commute to work a little less strenuous on my knees, since I really just use the motor to go up the steepest hills I encounter, without having to gear down and add more time to my already 60 minute one-way trip. And because the ebike is easier on my knees, using it allows me to commute more often.

I've witnessed bad etiquette (be it intentional or because of not knowing the unwritten rules) from all forms of users on the multi use paths, I don't think it's just the ebikers, though currently they may very well account for the majority because they are the newest users, and haven't learned the nuances yet.

70sSanO

As the e-bikes become lighter and the riding community ages, there will probably be more of a niche with higher quality road and mountain bikes to "assist" those who are starting to struggle up some very familiar and and well loved rides.

A number of older riders are gearing lower than they ever thought they would, or was even in anyone's imagination (50t!!!) in the past. The big issue is not necessarily some assist power, buy how heavy and ugly e-bikes are that will cause most riders to hold onto their leg power till the last moment.

Gasping for air and pushing a heart rate towards 170 on a tough hill will one day convince me. But I don't want some anchor to drag around, nor do I want to have to use the assist all the time, I want to pedal my bike 90%+ of the time.

There will be, maybe not a huge market, but large enough one day for lightweight bike that will provide a little extra oomf only when needed.

John

dabac

Covid aside, I’m an all-year bike commuter. 2x16 miles daily. In a place where winter really means something. Once the studded tires went on, the commute wore me down. I got consistently slower day by day and didn’t have much energy in the evenings.
So I bought an ebike for winter riding. The kind where the motor turns off at 16 mph, 250W.
What it does is that it compensates for the riding conditions. With the ebike, winter commutes are only a little slower than bare ground commutes. And leave me some energy for the evenings.
As far as exercise goes, I still hit the same heartrate. Since it helps me keep the pace up, it loses me a little time compared to the average winter commute. But with more than 2 hours of riding daily, I’m not overly concerned about that.
So for me it was easy, give up or cut down on commutes, accept falling asleep right after dinner, or buy an ebike.

mr_pedro

I ride about 7-10 hours per week on a road bike where I can maintain a 20 mph average on 2 hour rides. But I also have an e-bike for commuting or just transportation in general. That allows me to ride with a top speed of 20mph, in regular clothes with upright position while still getting a work out. On a “regular” bike in normal clothes I end up maxing out at 15 mph and sweating a bit as I “can’t” go slower than that.

surak

It's simple, ebikes appeal to those who derive a benefit from having one who would otherwise not ride a non-motorized bike in certain situations. People who want to be outside and go places but lack the fitness, don't want to get sweaty, and/or need* the trip to be faster.

*: This is probably the one that perplexes/annoys us unassisted cyclists the most, when we see a recreational ebiker zooming around at speed on the trail for no particularly important reason. At least when a roadie does the same thing, you know they had to work for that speed. Doesn't make it more polite, but at least it's earned

mack_turtle

I currently don't use a bicycle for practical purposes. I'm "young" and fairly fit and I see no reason to add the cost and complexity of a motor-assist bike to my routine. you can have a lot of fun by going further with less effort with some motor assistance. I won't judge anyone for going that direction, but I would think that leg-powered bicycles would be the default for most recreational riding unless you're riding someplace with extreme terrain or your body limits what you can do on a pedal-powered bike.

however, if/when I have the opportunity to, say, ride a bike to work, I would buy a motorized bicycle of some sort in a heartbeat! if something like that can replace most of the car trips I make, that sounds like a good deal. my current commute (before Covid, working from home now) is about 20 miles each way and takes 30 minutes in the morning and closer to 60 in the evening. I start and end my workday early just to avoid the worst of the traffic. riding a bike, motorized or not, is still a sweaty endeavor in Texas where it's HOT 9 months out of the year, so I'll have to count on using the shower ever day if I try that.

I am seeing ebikes where I live more and more lately and while I think non-motorized pedal bikes more sense, I'll welcome whatever gets people off the couch and onto bikes. when I visited NYC last summer, ebikes were everywhere. getting through a crowded city like that on such a bike made more sense to me and I would definitely have one if I lived there.

mountain biking, on the other hand: I have no need for it. seems like "cheating" to me, for the kind of riding I do, on my local terrain, for me. I know just a few people who ride e-mtbs and it's what keeps them going because they're old as dirt! the idea of riding lots of down-hill terrain in locations where there are actual mountains but no lifts also makes a e-mtb compelling. if you can't shuttle, but a small motor makes the long slogs back up the mountain bearable, that sounds like a good application, albeit a compromise due to the handling effects of the additional weight.

burnthesheep

You have to ask yourself what task you have, and how you can optimize your tools for the task. With bicycles, be it only human power or e-bike.......same thing. Will it be the perfect sized hammer for the correct sized nail? Or is it going to be like using a bazooka for trimming the hedge?

That's all.

Maybe do a pros/cons list.

If you worry too much about how other people use them, you might overlook something useful for yourself.

Sure, there is a huge number of American e-bike riders with whom I disagree with how they use their bazooka to trim the hedges while pushing children off the paths and darting around like a motorcycle .

But that has nothing to do with how YOU intend to use one.

I live in Raleigh in a pretty hilly part of town. I train to race a small amount. If I had to commute for work by bike, it wouldn't be useful to train to/from work as I'd want to not get sweaty for work. So......despite my racing, I'd probably get an e-bike for a bike commute to shave time and save on sweat. Then, I would obey all relevant rules and laws and moral obligations of owning such a tool.

CargoDane

Not sweating going uphill even in summer. Having to be somewhere without wanting to turn up sweating. Carrying lots of heavy stuff - even uphill. Using it a quick city commuter literally door to door. Poor physique (maybe due to age).
Lots of good reasons to own one.

The drawbacks of one doesn't quite do it for me, but I can certainly understand why one would want one.
When I get old, I'll get an electric cargo bike, allowing me to continue to do my shopping on a bicycle of sorts while still giving me a little exercise (unlike a moped or a car).

mdarnton

Regarding the behavior of people on bike paths, I will say that I tend to avoid any place that I might run into other bikers, especially when I will be squeezed into a narrow lane with them. Bad behavior isn't a problem isolated only to those with e-bikes.

Regarding the prevalence of e-bikes--they totally make sense in an urban environment where distances are small, parking can cost $7.50 an hour and bikes park free. Not everyone who doesn't want to own a car wants more exercise, of course.

Thomas15

I ride for fitness so I really don't care what others do or what they ride. I have noticed and it is really hard not to notice, but on my local MUP which attracts a lot of beginners and people from the cities, an easy ride where there isn't any climbing at all, that many who ride these machines have an attitude, an elitist attitude. While not trying to stereotype, I get a similar look from traditional riders on full suspension WalMart bikes. Perhaps I'm too sensitive?

The only crash that I have actually witnessed on my MUP involved two older but obviously inexperienced e-bike operators.

sloppy12

1. Nope set the assist low or just push the bike past its cutoffs. You can for sure still get heart rate up and exercise on any ebike. The second part about travel depends on what travel means to you. Range is limited on ebikes and charging takes time, so if like 40-60 miles is travel or sight seeing than yes a ebike can get that done.

2. Yes. Beer runs, grocery shopping, perfect tool. Heck I have picked up a 100lbs of feed for farm animals and drop kids off at school all summer on cargo bike.

3. This is just change. Its just a new segment of either rude or unaware people.

4. would for sure help.. it knocks the edge off of hills for sure.

Cargo hauling, just getting somewhere quicker, Not needing a shower,

I dont know that its really a how fun are they thing to me.. Its more of a get on it and use it thing. Its more fun that dragging a 120 lbs of kids up a hill to school on a non powered cargo bike that's for sure. its more fun than sitting in my car on the way to work and its faster.

unterhausen

I would move this to ebikes, but it seems like an ebike trashing thread from the beginning.

If you don't understand ebikes, don't get one. If you later find a reason to buy an ebike, then get one. I'm not going to tell you why you should get one if you don't see a reason to get one.

Where I live, everything is in a zone with very little parking downtown. It takes me longer to drive and walk to wherever I'm going than it takes to ride. An ebike would be even faster, since we have a lot of hills. Not every ride has to be for exercise or enlightenment. And you still get more exercise on an ebike than you do trolling bikeforums.

MNebiker

I got my first bike in 1948, and have ridden most of my life, even worked as a part-time bike tech when I retired. But hilly terrain, old knees, and 82 years make biking a lot less fun than it used to be. Switching to an ebike made it possible for me to continue an activity that I enjoyed. I ride it sensibly, just as I rode my previous bikes. I am not reckless (old bones don't mend as fast!) nor am I the fastest bike on the trail.

I frankly don't care if you want to call me a rider or cyclist. Ebikes can help us old dudes, make commutes easier, help compensate for disabilities, and assist in many other ways. Yes - there are fools out there on ebikes - just as there are fools on conventional bikes. There is the "go-fast" crowd on both types of bikes. And there are the inexperienced riders on rental ebikes/scooters.

Ebikes are not some evil plague upon the sport. Nor should they be looked down upon by the elitist "cyclists" as inferior to the "real" bikers. As to etiquette - I would observe that many of your so-called cyclists are also fully unaware of "basic cycling etiquette."

cb400bill

Thread moved from General Cycling Discussion forum to E-Bikes forum.

donheff

I just turned 72 and geared down my custom steel bike to Shimano GRX. I don't own an eBike yet but the few times I have ridden them they were a blast, especially on hills. It's like having 25 mph tail wind. I have been following this forum for a year or so and expect to eventually by a high end, light weight, e-assist bike. My hesitance has been that with each year the choices get better and the prices, lower. I just got diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease so I may need one sooner than I expected although, for now I am still good to go.

2old

I ride MTB three times a week on an old Santa Cruz Superlight and a couple of times a week on an e-MTB. Since I "discovered" e-bikes about six years ago they've been great for errands and a fun option for off road. For those who question their durability, my inexpensive rear hub errand bike and BBS02 mid-drive off road are both going on six years old with no problems except normal bike maintenance.

Pop N Wood

I converted an old MTB into an ebike for partially the same reason as the OP, i.e. work commuter, car free trips to the store, but also just for the experience. Then the covid hit and my employer shut down the showers at work, so I have yet to use it for work commuting. I do regularly use it in lieu of a car for store treks.

Having ridden one for the better part of a year I’ve learned the following

· They are an absolute blast to ride
· 99% of the people who hate them have never ridden one. they are also the people who seem to complain the loudest
· They greatly increase your range and let you explore more

Ebikes allow the same workout as human powered bikes, just potentially at a faster pace and covering a longer distance. Use the motor to augment what effort you are already putting out.

When I first built the bike I went to take care of my elderly mom for a couple of months. In those two months I visited areas of my home town that I had never ridden in the 25 years I grew up there. The ebike gives you so many more options in picking routes. Don’t need to worry so much about bonking too far from home or getting trapped behind by an unexpected head wind on the trip back. Busy streets are less intimidating when you can better keep up with traffic. Going through hilly regions aren’t the restriction they used to be. Even the bad part of town is less life threatening when you can jam at 30 mph.

You do need to manage battery usage. Batteries have come a long way but they still deplete really rapidly if you try and run on just electric power. Keep the boost low and save it for a high speed run home.

I wish people could drop the posturing and let themselves enjoy the experience of an ebike. They aren’t just for old, overweight or physically disabled people. You can still keep your road bikes for workouts. Save the ebike for slow cruises, exploring greater ranges from your house, for trips to the store. I honestly feel anyone who truly loves cycling would enjoy an ebike (reminds me of the joke about mopeds and fat chicks)

As for MUPS don’t think that is ebike specific. People with kids and dogs are the biggest threat in my area, not ebikers.

linberl

I purchased a system that goes on and off my bike (and onto my 2d bike) in seconds. While it can go 28 mph, I've never taken it over 18mph and don't plan on it. It's not about speed for me except when I ride with my adult son, and then the ~18mph lets us ride together without him getting bored. Usually, 14-15mph is just fine with me. It's a super lightweight system so I frequently ride with it not turned on at all, especially when I'm out for good exercise, or I just take it off entirely. But my bikes are also my car(s), so I do use it when I have things like Dr. appointments, and a lot of errands to run in a short time; I don't arrive places sweaty and can get more done in the same time. I'll use it if I decide to ride a route that has a lot of hills (bad knee, 71 y/o) to enjoy the views, but it's usually off until I get near the hills. Since it only adds 4.5lbs to my already light bike, there's no real penalty riding with it attached and not turning it on. It also helps me pull my beater bike with my shopping trailer, especially during Costco runs and bringing home giant bags of dog food. It's a tool like any other - used appropriately it makes a lot of sense in many situations. I bought the smallest battery, 20 mile range max, so that helped me to not rely entirely on a motorized system but to use it as an adjunct; the more I ride, the less I actually have to use it as I get stronger.

spinnanz

Ebikes afford healthier transport (no matter how little effort is put in, it's going to more effort than sitting in a car) to this who's fitness or age would not afford them to ride a bike.

They also let people cover larger distances, faster, with the same effort needed to cover much shorter distances on a non electric bike.

I myself use an ebike to get to work mostly due to cost. A car costs me $5 each way, a moped costs me $1 each way and an ebike costs me $0.06.

I could use a normal bike but to be honest I'd rather be "lazy" and get to work barely breaking a sweat and then get on with 8 hours work on a factory floor.

alloo

I started bicycling again about two years. I haven't owned a car since 2005. I mainly get around on my motorscooter. My fantasy was to get a beach cruiser and cruise the neighborhood. I'm a Type 2 diabetic and the pandemic closed down the recreation centers and my Tai Chi & Qigong classes. I ended up getting a used Townie 21D off of craigslist. I really wanted the Townie 7D but the prices were better on the 21D. After riding to the rec center and back and to brewries I decided that I wanted to try commuting. I started one way commute (12 miles) once a week for about a month then catching the bus home. It was scary at first but the more you do it the easier it becomes. I was a sweating pig. The next month, I tried every other day so some weeks 2 times alternating with three times, I did it for a month. Next, I started commuting both ways once a week for about two weeks, then every other day for another two weeks. Finally, I started commuting both ways three to four times a week. My commute to work started out as 1 hour and going home was about 70-80 minutes depending on wind and how I was feeling that day. I started to lose weight.

After about three months, I decided I needed to make my commute times more consistent. I was commuting 45-50 mins going to work, and 70-80 mins going home. I met my first goal of beating public transportation. I decided to look at ebikes. I used to ride mopeds in the late 70s to the early 90s. The thing I liked about cycling was the ability to go anywhere and meet all kinds of people. I think my coworkers thought that I was nuts. I like that I was saving $8 per week on gas, no insurance, enjoying nature. I bought a Rack, Rack Bag, front basket, panniers and cheap cycling gear. Eventually, I started looking for used tops at the local thriftstore during the winter. My first full year was a challenge, getting to know clothing for different temperatures, different routes, snow melt on my route, and slipping on ice. To make my commute times more consistent, I got a 2017 Raleigh Retroglide ie. I sweat less and my commute times both ways were under 55 minutes both ways. I think I lost 30 lbs.

I see the ebike as a tool that increases your joy of riding. My visual for ebikes is PeeWee Herman's big adventure. I used mostly level 2 assist on my ebike. The next winter, I purchased a Blix Aveny because it had lights, fenders, rear rack, disk brakes, and you could purchase a front basket that mounts to the frame of a bike. As of today, I have lost 40 lbs. I want to lose another 70 lbs, I have been using a nutritionist, but learned that when you lose weight your workouts aren't as effective. My short term goal is to lose another 20 lbs so that my BMI gets to 30 or just overweight. My insulin levels went from 300 units on long term insulin per day to 12 units per day. My short term insulin levels went from 80 units/day to 12 units per day. A1c went from 8.5 to 6.5. On the ebike, I observe both Ebike and regular bike riders who pass me when I'm going the speed limit of 15 MPH on the MUP.

I'm really into commuting and bought a JBL Clip 3 speak to play music, listen to sports radio, make calls, and listen to the news. I think bicycles in general are awesome. I like ebikes more, I'm 55 now and have no desire to train for cycling events or killing myself. I am respectful of other cyclist, and pedestrians. I'm also involved with bicycling advocacy in my city to get more bicycle infrastructure and helping others to get started. I'm an ex surfer and living inland now bicycling is my new sport. Our weather here in Denver can go from 90F to snowing in a blink of an eye. I'm getting more courage to commute in the winter, but am still afraid of commuting in the dark heading to work. My first summer, I fell of my ebike and got a concussion, I was out from work for a week. I just went to work and my boss sent me to the hospital and home. This is my second year. I have developed other routes and set my lower temp threshold of 32F, but this year I have commuted in the upper 20s F. My nutritionist is also a cyclist and her lower temperature threshold is 15F. I get advice from her.

I'm looking at getting another mid drive ebike with a belt drive and hub shifting ebike. I'm tired of derailers, chain wear, and cassette wear. I want a bike that is more maintenance free. I guess I expect moped reliability on a ebike. I've been let down by bicycle shops that don't know enought about ebikes and am glad to see powersports companies getting into ebikes. I think Ebikes are between Motorscooters and bicycles, and that ebikes are a different incarnation of mopeds but with a more bicycle centric base. That's my $.005. My goal in 2021 is to get off insulin completely and cure my diabetes. I want no medications.

Ebikes have shown me how great hybrid and electric cars are the future. I have been looking at Electric Motorcycles/Scooters/Mopeds, but they are cost prohibitive. Ebikes allow you to take your battery indoors to charge and store. I live in a Condo and my bicycle stays outside. It's better for me to have a removable battery since it can be 32F < or >90 F on any given season. I was already sold on Electric Cars after I drove Electric Buses for two years. The tuning on the buses are so discreet you can adjust acceleration and top speed digitally. Lately, I've been looking for a used car, but feel that ebikes maybe the solution to financial independence. Thank You

Doc_Wui

We will be 72 and 70 years in January. My sweet wife has ebiked 2300 miles and I'm at 2860 miles. We both did only 8 miles today because it was only 35F. It will depend on snow cover as to how much more we do between now and March. My wife rides a low power 36V 20" folding bike in pedal assist at 10-12 mph, as do I when we ride together. I have some full size bikes when I ride solo.

We have taken ebikes to bike trails in other states on vacation.Not in 2020, but hope to do so again next year. I will take a bike to the library and to buy stuff at the nearby Walgreens, but where we live, it's hard to get to other stores. We just ride for exercise and fun.

cat0020

I have been cycling commute in NYC since 2014, 8-12 mile one-way, most of the time in congested NYC traffic among cars.
I am used to riding among cars in traffic, hopping onto the sidewalk or going against the flow on one-way streets, just to avoid crazy drivers.
I ride my e-bike not because I want a workout, just want to pedal to places without breaking a sweat and in need of a shower when I get to my destination.
Sometimes, I carry a good amount of food that require refrigeration, (food donation to local homeless shelter) need to get to my destination quickly so the food doesn't spoil, e-bike helps me cut through NYC traffic, no worry about parking in NYC.
In COVID times, I don't want to be huffing & puffing when I'm riding if I don't need to be. E-bike makes it easier than regular pedal bike getting to the destination.
Besides the folding e-bike, I have a folding bike that allow me to take it onto the subway train when I'm not hauling large volume of items on the bike.

fooferdoggie 

to me it got me back into riding after being way to sick to ride a regular bike. I could ride 20 miles a day on my commute at 20+ mph to make it practical. as I got better I used less and less assist. I rode longer on weekends. I was doing about 150 miles a week. then the pandemic hit and my bike wife would not really ride public transportation she was stuck at home. so with our stimulus check we bought a e tandem. once she got her butt broken in we rode every day I would get home eat dinner and go on a 10 mile ride. we got to were we were doing 15 to 10 miles on weekdays and 40 tp 50 on Sunday. I got up to 250 miles a week may e bike lets me ride at a decent speed the nI feel like crap and get a workout when I can. but I ride my e bike more as a regular bike. to give me faster speeds and longer rage and hauling groceries without slowing down. we pretty ,much ride everywhere now never walk or take public transportation. I don't usually do this good but I know I can now. my e bike gives me more choices. yes I could ride a acoustic bike but it will be far slower and no better workout. it would be nice to not have the weight of the e bike though. this is my average power not the bikes power.